Something to offend everyone

Pathfinder76 · #1 07-21-2011, 01:19 PM

Let the justifying begin.

http://www.africahunting.com/content...ng-rifles-500/

BigJon · #2 07-21-2011, 01:32 PM

The link isn't working for me.

Pathfinder76 · #3 07-21-2011, 01:33 PM

Working just fine here.

wwbirds · #4 07-21-2011, 01:58 PM

I even tend to agree with much of what is said. Pay your money and take your chances on the mass produced stuff with varying problems and hope you get lucky or go to the European stuff which has fallen off in quality since the 60's but stil is generally better than the mass produced stuff because they still have pride in workmanship. Hard to beat those old BRNO's for reliability.
My 2 cents.

209x50 · #5 07-21-2011, 02:05 PM

Good read!

buckbrushoutdoors · #6 07-21-2011, 02:25 PM

Thanks chuck great read, even more reason to buy a cz in 375 if I was to buy a heavy rifle

jim-bo · #7 07-21-2011, 03:03 PM

Certainly was a good read, it is always nice to hear topics like this discussed by those whose livelihoods depend on performance.

Chet · #8 07-21-2011, 03:25 PM

Read that one a year or so ago on another forum. It is interesting. He sure doesn't like American guns. It's kind of funny that the 2 rifles I have owned the longest and shot the most are a Brno/CZ (25 years) and a Weatherby (23 years) and the only one I have had trouble with is the Brno/CZ.

303carbine · #9 07-21-2011, 03:45 PM

It's refreshing to read an article that says exactly how it is. Today the rifles are good enough for average deer hunting, but for dangerous game, I would rather have a rifle capable and reliable enough to do the job.
Kudos to the writer for saying it as it is.

wwbirds · #10 07-21-2011, 03:49 PM

Any time you want to scrap those Brno/Cz rifles just give me a call.
I am very partial to the ZKK models and always have room for a few more
Rob

303carbine · #11 07-21-2011, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwbirds

Any time you want to scrap those Brno/Cz rifles just give me a call.
I am very partial to the ZKK models and always have room for a few more
Rob

Too bad I already sold my ZKK 600 in 7x57........

209x50 · #12 07-21-2011, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chet

Read that one a year or so ago on another forum. It is interesting. He sure doesn't like American guns. It's kind of funny that the 2 rifles I have owned the longest and shot the most are a Brno/CZ (25 years) and a Weatherby (23 years) and the only one I have had trouble with is the Brno/CZ.

You're the one who got the bad CZ! LOL The article was a good read and it reaffirms that everyone has an opinion.

32-40win · #13 07-22-2011, 02:05 AM

Taylor's book mentioned the PH qualifiers, seems like a good idea when dealin with stuff that stomps and bites ya.He didn't mention just what he'd witnessed there too much. But, I suspect at least some of his opinions were formed at those qualifiers. Have had 2 M77's of the old variety like he mentioned,non-rotating style, the 22-250 was Ok, the 7mag cost me a moose because it would not pickup a round. Sold it real quick after that. His not slagging the #1 is OK by me. I would have thought the Winchester M70 would have fared better.
For the most part I guess we get what we pay for, and they are a mechanical device.

ACKLEY ABE · #14 07-22-2011, 07:05 AM

All of the new fangled bolt action rifles essentially based on the Mauser 98, or "Improved Mauser actions (We know who that one is)....and the one that comes through...the original 98.

kayaker · #15 07-22-2011, 08:07 AM

I agree about the M70 - I would prefer the safety on the other side (left) for a RH rifle.

gitrdun · #16 07-22-2011, 10:12 AM

Defenitely an eye opener. Thanks for posting it, I enjoyed it.

Big Daddy Badger · #17 07-26-2011, 06:41 AM

I have a CZ 550 in 375 that I purchased for dangerous game for many of the reasons mentioned in the article. It is the minimum for Big 5...it is a proven caliber, controlled round feed..CZ rifles are common in Africa etc etc. The other thing is magazine capacity. Most manufacturers build their 375's on actions mean't for 30-06 or something smaller. CZ designs their actions around the bullet so...you get a larger action and more capacity.

I'd recommend a CZ550 to anyone in any caliber...they just drip quality craftsmanship and functionality.

I've been exposed to a number of other CZ firearms over the years and found that this has also been the case with those weapons to.

Stinky Coyote · #18 07-28-2011, 01:23 PM

great read on dangerous game rifles, the only questions i have left are why aren't there any semi-auto's?, i guess in thinking about the ultimate in danger would be things that shoot back at you and the military sure does like its auto-loaders, seems most bolt actions left to the operation of panicking people will fail unless set up 100% and then extremely familiar to the operator where as overall maybe the chambering of second/third shots at life or death time might be more reliable for broader amount of people if done mechanically?????

food for thought....my guess is budget would have the biggest part in this as ph's want to be able to save their own life and the lives of their clients but also want to do it rather cheaply with some old school military influenced bolt cranker....the military seems to not care about the budget as much as the ph's etc. since the taxpayer buys the tools

some pretty awesome/reliable auto-loader designs out there that could be copied/upsized for the usual dangerous game cartridges no? garand style or even the newer cleaner style ar15 designs or maybe the ultimate in auto-loading reliability an upsized kalashnikov design (ak-47) with its loose tolerances etc. for extreme reliability in the worst of conditions? hmmmm some say why? i say why not?

why not ask what are people using against people to attack or defend themselves at war/conflict etc. in close quarters life and death situations? Everything seems to be auto-loader, pistols etc.

375 or 416 ak-47....what a concept

Twisted Canuck · #19 07-28-2011, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

375 or 416 ak-47....what a concept

That would be a darling to shoot.......steel buttplate and all!

Good read Chuck, and have to agree with the author for the most part.

BallCoeff.435 · #20 07-28-2011, 10:35 PM

The tough consideration is in finding a rifle capable of handling larger cartridges reliably but cheap enough for a basic PH to afford. Surely, if any of them could afford a new Mauser 98 Magnum or a Krieghoff double, like African hunt clients might be able to, we'd never read of complaints like that.

It's the same kind of problem in just about any manufactured item, from shoes to washing machines to airplanes. There's some price point that you just cannot drop below while holding a minimum quality level, with specific materials and manufacturing processes..

I guess the american-made large bore rifles have reached that price point.

jeepster · #21 07-28-2011, 10:55 PM

Stinky coyote has a great point 50 cals been around for a few years in autoload. Be nice to hear from soom guides in the north and if their opinions are similar. Temperature may change the perspective of some guns and cartridges perforamce.

BallCoeff.435 · #22 07-28-2011, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

great read on dangerous game rifles, the only questions i have left are why aren't there any semi-auto's?, i guess in thinking about the ultimate in danger would be things that shoot back at you and the military sure does like its auto-loaders, seems most bolt actions left to the operation of panicking people will fail unless set up 100% and then extremely familiar to the operator where as overall maybe the chambering of second/third shots at life or death time might be more reliable for broader amount of people if done mechanically?????

food for thought....my guess is budget would have the biggest part in this as ph's want to be able to save their own life and the lives of their clients but also want to do it rather cheaply with some old school military influenced bolt cranker....the military seems to not care about the budget as much as the ph's etc. since the taxpayer buys the tools

some pretty awesome/reliable auto-loader designs out there that could be copied/upsized for the usual dangerous game cartridges no? garand style or even the newer cleaner style ar15 designs or maybe the ultimate in auto-loading reliability an upsized kalashnikov design (ak-47) with its loose tolerances etc. for extreme reliability in the worst of conditions? hmmmm some say why? i say why not?

why not ask what are people using against people to attack or defend themselves at war/conflict etc. in close quarters life and death situations? Everything seems to be auto-loader, pistols etc.

375 or 416 ak-47....what a concept

The vast majority of rounds expended in a military operation never impact on an intended enemy target. Huge numbers of bullets, maybe tons of them (I forget the stats) are shot off before one kill is made. Suppression of the enemy by pumping lots of shots in their general direction is a big part of it. So, automatic fire and small cartridges (cheaper, lighter) are important. Great accuracy and extreme reliability generally doesn't factor into it, unless special tactical ops has a use for that.

Lots of belt-fed larger-caliber weapons out there too though (50BMG anyone?). But nothing that size is generally intended to be constantly carried around by the average grunt.

Ultra reliability is generally not a hallmark of military material. It's expected to have a limited, intense life like it's operators. Personnel have always been expendable to a point to achieve a strategic goal. Why make things too expensive so they'll last a long time, when it's cheaper to just make an extra unit and do a little extra recruiting?

catnthehat · #23 07-28-2011, 11:10 PM

Actually a big bore SXS from a reputable company is not that far out of reach, you just ahve to stay away from all the engraving and fancy wood!!
Merkels are on brand that sells SXS rifles in African calibres that are affordable
, not Mm70 or M'98 affordable, but affordable non the less.

One has to save mind you, and sell some guns one does not use!!

I should quit while I'm ah\ead before Ii head over to tradeex.com and email Anthony!!

Cat