Can't shoot my big rifles, need options

[mrcrossbow]

good morning, let's jump into this.
due to a medical thing I can't shoot my big stuff any more unless I want a real chance at dieing. My 45-70, shotguns, 7mm rm, 300 win , my real baby is my 45-70 I use it for everything from gophers to bear and alot of paper, before this medical thing I averged around 50+ rounds a day more on a good day.
it's the recoil any ways that the doctors don't want me having, ( can't even wear a 30lb backpack due to shoulder straps push on my chest area )
So I'm wondering what's the recoil on a 45lc, 357mag, 44mag in rifles, still want be able to hunt larger game ( average range is 40 to 60 yards ) but I'd like to not die shooting. I'm a big fan of rimmed cartages, and yes I reload. out of those 3 I'm interested in what would have the lest recoil but still do the job. will probably be looking at a lever action or single shot as it's my preferred type of rifle. yes I know a little 243 would probably cover my needs , but I do like rims, straight walls,, and hard cast flat nosed rounds hence those 3 rounds. let me know what you all think. please, don't want buy a rifle to find out I can't shoot it.

[Jerry D]

I’d go with the 243 and go with a more traditional style rifle like a blr or single shot or the Henry Lone Ranger

Use a premium bullet. Maybe even a muzzle break can be installed if needed.

[ghostguy6]

Of the 3 you listed I would go with the 357 style rifle but use 38 special rounds for the reduced recoil. At 40 to 60 yards they should still have enough power to take a deer ( but dont quote me on that)

I hate to state the obvious but have you considered using a crossbow for hunting? The recoil (if any) would be totally different and might not effect your medical condition at all.

[mrcrossbow]

oh yes, as soon as doctors told me I couldn't shoot,I went out and got my self a Excalibur grz2 crossbow ( last month ) have been using it on rabbits and gophers and paper. but I do just plain enjoy using my rifles, well used to. and I honestly enjoy reloading as much as shooting.

[Sashi]

Get a 6.5x55 if you like to reload, or a 6.5 CM; shoot large or small game, very little recoil. And fun on the range.

[Dean2]

My suggestion, down load a 30-30 using 150 grain flat nose bullets. You can get them to the point of nearly zero recoil and still lots of ability to kill large game.


Did Proline have the action screw you were looking for for the 45-70?

[graybeard]

I totally understand your situation.....

You may want to explore the muzzle brake, as an option. Yes they are loud and enhanced flash; but reducing the recoil, it will do.

Good luck,

[mrcrossbow]

yep got the screw. there last one .

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by mrcrossbow

good morning, let's jump into this.
due to a medical thing I can't shoot my big stuff any more unless I want a real chance at dieing. My 45-70, shotguns, 7mm rm, 300 win , my real baby is my 45-70 I use it for everything from gophers to bear and alot of paper, before this medical thing I averged around 50+ rounds a day more on a good day.
it's the recoil any ways that the doctors don't want me having, ( can't even wear a 30lb backpack due to shoulder straps push on my chest area )
So I'm wondering what's the recoil on a 45lc, 357mag, 44mag in rifles, still want be able to hunt larger game ( average range is 40 to 60 yards ) but I'd like to not die shooting. I'm a big fan of rimmed cartages, and yes I reload. out of those 3 I'm interested in what would have the lest recoil but still do the job. will probably be looking at a lever action or single shot as it's my preferred type of rifle. yes I know a little 243 would probably cover my needs , but I do like rims, straight walls,, and hard cast flat nosed rounds hence those 3 rounds. let me know what you all think. please, don't want buy a rifle to find out I can't shoot it.

Load up your 45/70 with red Dot or Trail Boss!
I have a gorgeous little 26 in a Highwall of you want to trade something, shoot me a text Dan!
Cat

[freeride]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Load up your 45/70 with red Dot or Trail Boss!
I have a gorgeous little 26 in a Highwall of you want to trade something, shoot me a text Dan!
Cat

Was just going to say this. Trailboss and 45/70, can't double charge it because of the size of powder. Zero recoil.

[Dean2]

You guys need to check to pressure values with Trailboss in straight sided cases. It actually produces more pressure while delivering far less velocity velocity. It behaves very different in straight wall cartridges than bottleneck ones. You will get more recoil reduction downloading 4895 to the 1.100 fps range, and at much lower pressures..



These are Trapdoor Loads.



Bullet Weight
300 GR. CAST LFP

Case
Winchester

Primer
CCI 200, Large Rifle




Starting Load
Maximum Loads
Manufacturer Powder
Bullet Diam. C.O.L
Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure
Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure
Hodgdon H4895 Buy Now 0.458" 2.465"
45.0 1,572 14,400 CUP
51.0 1,703 15,500 CUP

Hodgdon Trail Boss Buy Now 0.458" 2.465"
14.0 1,199 19,400 CUP
16.5 1,285 20,900 CUP

HodgdonVarget Buy Now 0.458"2.465"
45.01,599 17,800 CUP
55.01,880 20,600 CUP Bullet Weight




405 GR. CAST LFP

Case
Winchester

Primer
CCI 200, Large Rifle




Starting Load
Maximum Loads
Manufacturer Powder
Bullet Diam. C.O.L
Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure
Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure
Hodgdon H4895 Buy Now 0.458" 2.540"
40.0 1,424 14,900 CUP
48.0 1,645 18,900 CUP

Hodgdon Trail Boss Buy Now 0.458" 2.540"
12.0 971 24,500 CUP
13.0 1,007 25,600 CUP

HodgdonVarget Buy Now 0.458"2.540"
40.01,392 15,600 CUP
50.01,718 20,900 CUP

Starting Load
Maximum Loads
Manufacturer Powder
Bullet Diam. C.O.L
Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure
Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure



Hodgdon H4895 Buy Now 0.458" 2.465"
45.0 1,572 14,400 CUP
51.0 1,703 15,500 CUP

Hodgdon Trail Boss Buy Now 0.458" 2.465"
14.0 1,199 19,400 CUP
16.5 1,285 20,900 CUP

Hodgdon Varget Buy Now 0.458" 2.465"
45.0 1,599 17,800 CUP
55.0 1,880 20,600 CUP

[freeride]

The point was..... trailboss will reduce recoil and possibly allow him to use his marlin 1895 still.

I have never tried 4895 yet, so I didn't mention it, but will give it a go as well to see as I have some laying around.

[mrcrossbow]

here's the thing , have a large, cyst on spleen, basically if cyst gets knocked off , liquefaction of spleen will happen, that would be very bad if I'm back country, I have stay under roughly 8 to 10 foot lbs of recoil less be better, I'm not even allowed to lift over 30 lbs, wear backpacks, sit driving long periods, definitely no off roading for next 6 months to see if cyst shrinks, or gets bigger, will know with next mri. doctor said I could shoot right handed my big stuff but why tempt fate and in heat of the moment I shoulder on my left and well it ends badly for me. and idk about dumbing down the 45-70. iv shot trap door loads and that's still I think over 8 to 10 lbs into my shoulder

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by freeride

The point was..... trailboss will reduce recoil and possibly allow him to use his marlin 1895 still.

I have never tried 4895 yet, so I didn't mention it, but will give it a go as well to see as I have some laying around.

No problem. I am a BIG Trailboss fan, use it in a lot of cartridges for cast and reduced velocity. I have used it in the 45-70 and the 458, it does reduce recoil some but it was designed to produce 15-25,000 CUP in most applications to ensure adequate pressure to expand the case, seal the chamber and exit the bullet. It shows far more recoil reduction in Bottleneck cartridges. I think you will be really happy with the reduced 4895 loads when you shoot them against the Trailboss in the 45-70.

[Dean2]

Can


You can easily get a 30-30, 308 etc down to 5 or 6 lbs of recoil in a regular lever or bolt rifle. Getting your 45-70 under 8 lbs is not likely going to happen.
Here is a link to a recoil table that might be useful.


https://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

[freeride]

Maybe I will be upset I sold 8 lbs of 4895!

Looking at online calculations though it seems like trailboss should still be less recoil. Or am I missing something on the design of those little donuts for recoil calculations?

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by freeride

Maybe I will be upset I sold 8 lbs of 4895!

Looking at online calculations though it seems like trailboss should still be less recoil. Or am I missing something on the design of those little donuts for recoil calculations?

Many of the online calculators use grains of powder, bullet weight, gun weight and velocity in their calculations. None that I know of use pressure as a variable and that is where Trailboss is the outlier. Low velocity, low weight in grains but pretty high pressure. In other words, 1100 fps with 25 grains of 4895 at 10,000 CUP will kick quite a bit less than 1100 FPS with 15 grains Trailboss at 20,000 CUP but most of the recoil calculators that use grains of powder will show the Trailboss load as lower recoil because to them grains of powder is a linear relationship to pressure. Run it through the shooters recoil calculator and you will see what I am getting at.

Now technically, pressure does not have a direct bearing on recoil, outside of the velocity it creates, so in theory two bullets travelling at 1,100 FPS should produce the same recoil but in real life it doesn't quite work that way. (Recoil cal is weight of ejecta, velcoity of ejecta and weight of the gun, the weight of the powder is an addition to the ejecta weight.)

https://shooterscalculator.com/recoil-calculator.php

[Whipper Billy]

A sabot bullet would allow you to reduce recoil by having a lighter bullet.

i.e. Hornady 45 cal sabot with 40 cal 200 gr bullet

https://www.hornady.com/muzzleloadin...t-ml-bullet#!/

If you went to 30 cal I see they also have make your own sabots.

https://www.eabco.net/Sabots_c_3468.html

[58thecat]

cant go wrong with a nice marlin JM stamped in 30/30 pushing out a 150gr pill for the distances you said it will handle all game and not buck but rather a slight push....

[freeride]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Many of the online calculators use grains of powder, bullet weight, gun weight and velocity in their calculations. None that I know of use pressure as a variable and that is where Trailboss is the outlier. Low velocity, low weight in grains but pretty high pressure. In other words, 1100 fps with 25 grains of 4895 at 10,000 CUP will kick quite a bit less than 1100 FPS with 15 grains Trailboss at 20,000 CUP but most of the recoil calculators that use grains of powder will show the Trailboss load as lower recoil because to them grains of powder is a linear relationship to pressure. Run it through the shooters recoil calculator and you will see what I am getting at.

Now technically, pressure does not have a direct bearing on recoil, outside of the velocity it creates, so in theory two bullets travelling at 1,100 FPS should produce the same recoil but in real life it doesn't quite work that way. (Recoil cal is weight of ejecta, velcoity of ejecta and weight of the gun, the weight of the powder is an addition to the ejecta weight.)

https://shooterscalculator.com/recoil-calculator.php

Thanks, that's basically what I was thinking with the unique property of trailboss.

[tikka250]

If you want to keep the 45-70 you could load up some round ball gallery loads. We have used them in indoor ranges for fun before and it's quite a blast. Nothing like showing up to the line with a 45-70 and firing it only to have the sound be that of a 38special.
I need to inquire as to what the load is but a quick search online shows guys using 10gr of unique for the same effect. I can guarantee that you will be safe recoil wise.

[obsessed1]

My marlin dark will push 405gr bullets right at 1100fps with 13gr of red dot.
Check out this site for low powered loads
http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

[303 Hunter]

If you want another cartridge you could try a .303 British. A 150 grain bullet at 2,700 fps gives 14.2 foot/lbs of recoil in a 7.5 lb rifle. That is still a bit high of your limit but the .303 can be down loaded.
But no matter what you decide for a cartridge, give black powder a try. Recoil is quite low and is felt differently.

[Beeman3]

You say larger game. If just deer I’d build a 6 dasher with a brake. Basically zero recoil. I built one on a EH1 with a #4 benchmark at 22”. It’s so much fun to shoot.

[303 Hunter]

Originally Posted by 303 Hunter

If you want another cartridge you could try a .303 British. A 150 grain bullet at 2,700 fps gives 14.2 foot/lbs of recoil in a 7.5 lb rifle. That is still a bit high of your limit but the .303 can be down loaded.
But no matter what you decide for a cartridge, try loading it with black powder. Recoil is quite low and is felt differently.

.

[buckman]

Put a brake on a heavier rifle in a lighter caliber.

[mrcrossbow]

gosh fellas , thank you for all the in put and helpfull ideas, after a lot of pm's , I think I'm going to get a 30-30. the recoil is in my medical safe range, and I can use it on any game I hunt, with in the ranges I hunt at and it's a easy reload, next will be the hunt for a nice single shot in that caliber. or a lever action. but I do have a thing for single shots. once again a heart felt thank you to every one that posted and to the ones that pm'ed me and answered questions privately. I really appreciated it. truly.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by mrcrossbow

gosh fellas , thank you for all the in put and helpfull ideas, after a lot of pm's , I think I'm going to get a 30-30. the recoil is in my medical safe range, and I can use it on any game I hunt, with in the ranges I hunt at and it's a easy reload, next will be the hunt for a nice single shot in that caliber. or a lever action. but I do have a thing for single shots. once again a heart felt thank you to every one that posted and to the ones that pm'ed me and answered questions privately. I really appreciated it. truly.

Good luck on your quest and keep us posted with your new shooting iron and of course the big buck too!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[barsik]

something you might try is finding a set of vintage shoulder pads like hockey players wore back about 40 years ago. they should be thick and stiff enough to absorb a lot of recoil but will still allow you to get a decent shooting position. or maybe a good leather/saddle craftsman could make a nice stiff shoulder pad rig for you. just a thought.

[Flight01]

Originally Posted by ghostguy6

Of the 3 you listed I would go with the 357 style rifle but use 38 special rounds for the reduced recoil. At 40 to 60 yards they should still have enough power to take a deer ( but dont quote me on that)

I hate to state the obvious but have you considered using a crossbow for hunting? The recoil (if any) would be totally different and might not effect your medical condition at all.

357/38 spc is a great low recoil option. Fun and pretty cheap to shoot.

And for deer I wouldn’t hesitate with good hand loads out to 75 yards.

No live test subject but I have used road kill deer that I throw in the bait pile on the trapline. Pass through every attempt on ribs from 40 yards