Semi auto .223 non restricted

[ghfalls]

I think my next gun purchase will be a semi auto .223. I'm thinking a mini 14, but just wanted to get a little input from those of you that have a good non restricted .223 semi auto. Thanks for the input.

[Smokinyotes]

I have a Rob Arms xcrL. It will only shoot the cheap AE ammo about 3 MOA. If I feed it a diet of nosler custom it will shoot right around 1moa. It works well but is heavy. It's piston driven so stays fairly clean. If I could hunt coyotes with a AR I would sell the xcrL. The new key mod xcrL is balanced a lot better than mine and quite a bit lighter.

[Hotwheels81]

You really need to add more of your expectations if you want good direction on a purchase...

The Mini-14 is not a bench rest gun (even the target model) so I'm guessing you will be happy with 2-3MOA...?

The only semi auto in that price range I can recommend is the T97 with the flat top upper...

Crappy trigger, as reliable as a ball peen hammer, accurate enough no coyote will want to be within a few hundred yards of you.

Love mine!

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by Hotwheels81

You really need to add more of your expectations if you want good direction on a purchase...

The Mini-14 is not a bench rest gun (even the target model) so I'm guessing you will be happy with 2-3MOA...?

The only semi auto in that price range I can recommend is the T97 with the flat top upper...

Crappy trigger, as reliable as a ball peen hammer, accurate enough no coyote will want to be within a few hundred yards of you.

Love mine!

Tried out a friend's T97. I was excited to try it, but when I did, it felt awkward to me.

The old Mini-14, Ranch rifles were supposedly pretty horrible for accuracy. The new models are supposed to be quite a bit better, but how much I am not sure. No personal experience with them unfortunately.

If I wanted a nice non-restricted I would probably give the Benelli a hard look for the price. Or maybe a Robinson Arms. I think the old ones had some nits to pick on, but some guys are getting remarkable accuracy with them.

And I would have to agree with HotWheels. If I didn't care about restricted status, I would pick up an AR. Bang for the buck value is pretty good, and it's a true LEGO rifle.

[Hunter1602]

Have a look at the SU16 by Keltec,
It was a fun lil rifle. It also accepts the LAR10 round mags.

[Hotwheels81]

Originally Posted by Tactical Lever

Tried out a friend's T97. I was excited to try it, but when I did, it felt awkward to me.

The old Mini-14, Ranch rifles were supposedly pretty horrible for accuracy. The new models are supposed to be quite a bit better, but how much I am not sure. No personal experience with them unfortunately.

If I wanted a nice non-restricted I would probably give the Benelli a hard look for the price. Or maybe a Robinson Arms. I think the old ones had some nits to pick on, but some guys are getting remarkable accuracy with them.

And I would have to agree with HotWheels. If I didn't care about restricted status, I would pick up an AR. Bang for the buck value is pretty good, and it's a true LEGO rifle.

Most times when folks are interested in the Mini-14 they have already bought it they just don't know it yet.... It's a bucket list gun thanks to the A-team...

When the allure wears off and they take a hard look at what they have either they love it or hate it... It either stays neatly tucked behind the seat in the truck or it stays in the safe for sentimental reasons... It's just how it is.


For practical cheap plinking these days there are a lot of options, my next non-restricted rifle is going to most likely be a CSA in .223 or 7.62x39... I've owned the XCR, played with the first Tavor brought I to canada, drooled over the SL-8 and played with enough AR's to last a life time.... Currently i have the RFB, the T97 and an M14 to feed my reloading hobby as well as a few other bolt guns... I can't see ever selling these 3 semi auto's... They always work, they are accurate enough and they are built to last... Yes 2 norinco's that are well built and a Keltech product to top it off... Unbelieveable eh? Lol.

If you want a solid rifle to use and abuse I'd give a long hard look towards one of these.... I've already bought it my bank and local gun store just hasent processed the transaction yet.... Lol
http://www.theammosource.com/index.p...oducts_id=4617

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by Hotwheels81

Most times when folks are interested in the Mini-14 they have already bought it they just don't know it yet.... It's a bucket list gun thanks to the A-team...

When the allure wears off and they take a hard look at what they have either they love it or hate it... It either stays neatly tucked behind the seat in the truck or it stays in the safe for sentimental reasons... It's just how it is.


For practical cheap plinking these days there are a lot of options, my next non-restricted rifle is going to most likely be a CSA in .223 or 7.62x39... I've owned the XCR, played with the first Tavor brought I to canada, drooled over the SL-8 and played with enough AR's to last a life time.... Currently i have the RFB, the T97 and an M14 to feed my reloading hobby as well as a few other bolt guns... I can't see ever selling these 3 semi auto's... They always work, they are accurate enough and they are built to last... Yes 2 norinco's that are well built and a Keltech product to top it off... Unbelieveable eh? Lol.

If you want a solid rifle to use and abuse I'd give a long hard look towards one of these.... I've already bought it my bank and local gun store just hasent processed the transaction yet.... Lol
http://www.theammosource.com/index.p...oducts_id=4617

I could see picking up a CZ in .223, but I don't know about mounting a scope. That's a must for me. You don't have to sell me on a Norinco/Polytech. I have and had a few. Most were pretty good. I currently have a M93, and unmarked 1911 that will probably never leave. Just can't replace them with better for the money, and they are both great knock abouts. I would probably pick up another M305 again. Only traded that one, because I hated chasing brass, and I did not find a reasonable scope mounting option at the time, so it sat around quite a bit.

I may be unduly wary of Keltech, but have heard too much bad about their pistols coming apart. How 'bout that? A Norc fan who is scared of Keltechs?!

[tikka250]

not sure if he managed to get a miracle gun or not but my hunting partners mini14 target is a great shooter! its not a tack driver or anything but in known conditions and distance i fully trust that rifle to hit a coyote sized target at 400 yards. i would tell you how far he regularly shoots with it but i dont want to stir up any of the mini 14 naysayers so i will leave it at that.

[Hotwheels81]

Originally Posted by Tactical Lever

I could see picking up a CZ in .223, but I don't know about mounting a scope. That's a must for me. You don't have to sell me on a Norinco/Polytech. I have and had a few. Most were pretty good. I currently have a M93, and unmarked 1911 that will probably never leave. Just can't replace them with better for the money, and they are both great knock abouts. I would probably pick up another M305 again. Only traded that one, because I hated chasing brass, and I did not find a reasonable scope mounting option at the time, so it sat around quite a bit.

I may be unduly wary of Keltech, but have heard too much bad about their pistols coming apart. How 'bout that? A Norc fan who is scared of Keltechs?!

Optics are a big plus for me but not a deal breaker, the CZ has a few good options now as does the M14/305 with my latest one wearing a m14.ca CASM mount.... That sucker is rock solid even compared to the ARMS mount I had on a previous rifle... Chasing brass ain't a big deal for me but 2-3 reloads before a case seperates still drives me nuts... But when I get the urge to hear the ping and knock steel over or that Norc sure puts a smile on the face for $500...

The RFB reeled me in with it's trigger... I've played with lots of cool bullpup rifles and by far the RFB is my favorite.... Set up the gas system, feed it from new thermold's mags and it runs like a sewing machine.... Expensive? Yup, but it will run circles around the Tavor and you can hunt big game with it...

The SU-16 was on my shopping list too as a notable mention... But no way I'm paying what dealers are asking for a polymer rifle... Bad enough I paid what I did for my Sub 2000 looking back at it... Ain't gunna sell that one either, too handy for beaver plinking and soft on the ears when shooting around water...

[Big_Willy]

I am caught in the same debate.

I have lots of bolt guns, but, would like a semi-auto in .223/5.56 chambering.

I would consider a Mini-14 but have heard accuracy not that great.

I do not like the cheap looks of the Kel-Tec line.

Tavor, Robinson too expensive.

I would consider the T97FTU. Who has the best prices on this set up?


-Willy

[grinr]

I bought a new(2014 model) XCR-L Keymod in 5.56 just this spring.
With near 40yrs of hunting/shooting sporting arms behind me,this is my first venture into the world of "evil black guns",but probably not my last,it's just rediculously fun to do mag dumps and rattle off near 100rds/min.
So that said,I have no other black gun experience to compare,but I'm quite impressed with the Robinson.
I did tons of reading,drooling,coveting,and research before I dropped that kinda money on essentially a toy that I can also hunt with.I really have no interest in owning a range queen AR,as I consider my guns hunting tools,although if ARs were to become non-restricted....there's definately more accurate options available for the AR platform....but moot point in Canuckistan,I only want a NR rifle that I can use how,when,and where I choose.

I gotta say I'm pleasantly surprised with both the accuracy and handling/balance after reading mixed reviews.I think most negative feedback towards the XCR stems from earlier generation models when this "relatively new" rifle was going through growing pains?
Mine consistantly shoots 1.5-2MOA w/Federal XM193 55gr FMJ,which I consider pretty good accuracy given that the military standards for most semi-auto battle rifle platforms calls for sub 3 MOA....or so I've read anyhow?
Admittedly,that's the only ammo I've fed it thus far,and I'm pretty certain I'll be able to tighten that up with handloads once I get set-up for reloading,but in the meantime,I'm confident in calling it Minute of Coyote to 300 yards or so?
With a legendary,battle-proven reliability "AK-like" piston drive system,the XCR is striving to offer similar reliability and by all accounts,it's not dissappointing.Maintenace and strip down is also a breeze,and the 30 second caliber conversions are attractive to many shooters,self included.I'm still debating between the 7.62x39 and the .300BLK for a conversion,but will be deciding very soon....leaning towards the .300BLK,which is yet another valid reason to dive into home rolled ammo.
The ergos and ambi controls on the XCR are second to none,and of course the fact that it's fed by commonly available STANAG mags is a big plus,and with the twisted,nonsensical mag restrictions and CDN gun laws,that means legal use of 10rd,AR type "pistol" mags,as well as 14-15rd BW.50 mags.Consider that mini-14s use expensive,propriotory mags,either built or pinned to 5rd max.
I'd say the only other non-res black rifle that I would seriously consider would be the Bushmaster ACR converted to non-res CDN compliance.....but cost wise,that's another 30-40% above and beyond the XCR's price point,although the ACR's fanboys claim excellent accuracy from it?Again though,I'd be skeptical of most any battle platform semi that claims subMOA out of the box?
I guess I should say I also gave serious consideration to the VZ 958 as well for roughly 1/3 the cost of an XCR or ACR.....but again,propriotory 5rd mags turned me off,although I've since learned that there are in fact mag well conversions available for the CZ/VZ platforms to accept STANAG/AR mags...which again,opens the 10-15rd mag loopholes.

I'm not really a fan of bull pups at all,so with that,the T97 isn't even on my radar,and only a mild interest in ever owning a Tavor,based solely on it's excellent reputation,and gotta admit,it would be an awesome lil' asset to have with a reflex sight in a SHTF scenario.

Unfortunately,there's not a whole lot of NR options available to us with Canada's Libtard stance on AR variants,and those that we can have generally come with a premium price tag.A few others worth considering would be H&K SL8,Keltec SU-16,Bennelli MR1,and some say the Famae 542 is an excellent rifle,but personally I absolutely hated the Fisher Price plastic finish on the Famae when I handled one,it's seriously gross fugly and wayyyy overpriced IMHO.I looked at all of the above and weighed the pros and cons of each before buying the XCR.For me personally,based on purpose of use,fit n finish,modularity,reliability etc...it was the winner,your mileage may vary depending on what features and attributes are important to you.
I spose I should mention another solid NR option if you're not in a hurry and don't mind a 2-3yr wait would be Calgary's own homegrown ATRS Modern Varminter,which by all accounts should be a Caddilac of semi-auto small bores,but again,it's expected to be another year or three wait for one before the production will catch up to the waiting list,and expect to pay a premium that will make ACR,XCR,and Tavors seem like a bargain,lol.

[ghfalls]

The more reading I do on the subject, the norinco sure seems like a great buy. So can you legally use 10 round stanag mags, as long as you aren't hunting?

[Hotwheels81]

Originally Posted by ghfalls

The more reading I do on the subject, the norinco sure seems like a great buy. So can you legally use 10 round stanag mags, as long as you aren't hunting?

Yes you can use 10rnd magazines that are clearly marked by the original manufacturer as LAR-15 pistol magazine... You can also use .50 beauwolf mag's as they hold 15?ish rounds of .223...

And no you can't unpin a regular magazine and write on it with a sharpie :-p


The Norinco is a decent rifle... But the trigger sucks... If you can get past that part and learn to do mag changes with your support hand you will certainly enjoy it....

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by ghfalls

The more reading I do on the subject, the norinco sure seems like a great buy. So can you legally use 10 round stanag mags, as long as you aren't hunting?

You can use the pistol mags for hunting. Here in Alberta, for non-big game species it's fine.

In B.C., I believe you can use the .223 for big game, and will have to use a 5 rounder for that, IIRC.

[grinr]

Sure would be nice to see RRA or a CDN entrepreneur come out with a pistol chambered in .50BW for the mag capacity alone.
On that note......any word as to wether the NFA mag cap petition is making any progress in Ottawa?

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by grinr

Sure would be nice to see RRA or a CDN entrepreneur come out with a pistol chambered in .50BW for the mag capacity alone.
On that note......any word as to wether the NFA mag cap petition is making any progress in Ottawa?

We already have these. You get a few extra.

[Groundhogger]

To hold/fondle a Mini14 is to want one...but I've yet to give-in to temptation. Not saying it won't happen..just hasn't happened yet. Like you, I come from a background of bolt guns so one idea to cozy-up to is this~ergonomics, triggers, accuracy, simplicty~all will take a big hit when you move into an off-the-shelf .223, non-restricted semi. They are fun, but you have to have your expectations in check. I've shot an AR, a Tavor, a Mini 14...but I've owned a RA XCR-L. (pictured below, my nephew eyeballing a groundhog) With hand loads, and if you bit your lip just the right way, it would shoot 1"-1-1/4" all day long. Try to rush things, that opened-up to 2"-3". I believe the gun was capable of better, but the heavy trigger conspires against you. Never tried it with factory ammo.

I sold it about a year after I got it, and after a season of lugging it around in hot, humid hay fields here in Southern Ontario. Why? Other than practical considerations like never needing a quick follow-up shot...the rifle was just too heavy, to sharp/jagged to sling carry wearing a T-Shirt. Not comfortable at all. When I sold it, I thought I'd seriously consider a Kel Tec SU-16 next time, both for weight...and price reasons. The XCR-L with an American Defense Recon mount, Vortex Viper HS scope, Battelcomp 2.0 brake=pretty spendy. While the SU-16 isn't anywhere near the gun the XCR-L is, I could see it really scratching the itch for a gun that takes AR mags, and costs about 1/2 what an XCR-L does. I've heard the keymod XCRs are quite an improvement...so I'd probably check one of those first...then decide.

[duster243]

The XCR-L and XCR-M are heavy with the heavy barrel and quad rail system. I mostly just shoot it at the bench and work on accuracy with my hand loads but have taken it on the occasional hunt. But now Rob arms really stepped it up with the new keymod upper and light barrel. If your looking for a lightweight (but pricey) coyote gun this is the ticket. I've purchased the lightweight barrel for my quad rail upper XCR-L and that helped a lot with balance and feel of the gun.

[sikwhiskey]

If you have the $$$$ look into the ATRS modern Hunter. Quite the waiting list but worth it. Made in Calgary.

[Chewwy]

Sorry not place to add this but I have Ruger mini 14 target
Very nice gun. Action design been around longer then most of us.
Fun to shoot very accurate for semi
Tough times for me this year in Calgary and need to sell
About 4 boxes ammo through it, new in 2012 no glass
Extra 5 Rd clip $945.00 takes it
403 510-3669

[Tactical Lever]

Action design been around longer then most of us.

I should say so! Not many of us over 90.

No ads in other sub-forums, though I don't see anything wrong with referencing it.

[grinr]

Originally Posted by sikwhiskey

If you have the $$$$ look into the ATRS modern Hunter. Quite the waiting list but worth it. Made in Calgary.

Pretty sure the OP is looking for a small bore?AFAIK,it'll be another year or two(?) before the Modern Hunter wait list is caught up and the Modern Varminter goes into production......and even then,MH buyers have first dibs on ordering a MV.....2-3yrs wait at least to get an ATRS MV if you're not already in the club??

Originally Posted by Tactical Lever

We already have these. You get a few extra.

Really??Please do tell,who makes a pistol version .50BW,and where can I get 10rd mags for same?

[grinr]

XCR-L Keymod 5.56 lite bbl
Trijicon Accupoint 3-9x40
Troy Micro BUIS piggybacked on Burris lo-pro tact rings


100yd Minute of Coyote group that I'm pretty sure I can improve upon with handloads and/or better shooting habits?


Nowwww.....if I can just wack n stack 40-50 yoties with it,I can break even and justify the price tag to missus and get to say "I told ya so",lol.

[bat119]

I never tried one myself, I have seen these at the range

Benelli MR1 Tactical .223

Cabelas has them

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by grinr

Pretty sure the OP is looking for a small bore?AFAIK,it'll be another year or two(?) before the Modern Hunter wait list is caught up and the Modern Varminter goes into production......and even then,MH buyers have first dibs on ordering a MV.....2-3yrs wait at least to get an ATRS MV if you're not already in the club??


Really??Please do tell,who makes a pistol version .50BW,and where can I get 10rd mags for same?

Not sure who makes a pistol in .50 but they make the mags. I don't recall the name, I was shooting a friends gun. You don't get a huge amount more, as the body is just fat enough to make it a rebated rim cartridge, I think 12 or 13, not 15 as someone mentioned.

And you want mags that are "tuned" right for a .223 (most are apparently) as some don't work as well. I will ask.

[darren32]

You guys are not on the same page. They do make a .50BW rifle mag (5 rounds of .50BW) that will hold 13 of 5.56.

They DO NOT make a .50BW pistol mag (10 rounds of .50BW) that would hold approx 26 rounds of 5.56.

I have some of these

http://www.bullseyelondon.com/press-...n2-canada.html

They work fairly well in my XCR-L

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by darren32

You guys are not on the same page. They do make a .50BW rifle mag (5 rounds of .50BW) that will hold 13 of 5.56.

They DO NOT make a .50BW pistol mag (10 rounds of .50BW) that would hold approx 26 rounds of 5.56.

I have some of these

http://www.bullseyelondon.com/press-...n2-canada.html

They work fairly well in my XCR-L

You are right. I started looking up cartridge dimensions, and forgot how fat they are.

[grinr]

I have the Press Check Ventures plastic .50BW mags.They hold and feed 14rds 5.56 very well in XCR but a wee bit tight in mag well,they usually won't just drop free upon release,just need to grab them. I've heard some of the steel and/or aluminum mags(?) will hold 15rds and drop free....still waiting on the infamous pre-order list for them.
Edit:....oops,didn't notice your link there Darren,...DOH...yes,same mags from Bullseye.Odd,mine hold 14 no problem,can't stuff 15 though.

[Scotty454]

Originally Posted by grinr

I have the Press Check Ventures plastic .50BW mags.They hold and feed 14rds 5.56 very well in XCR but a wee bit tight in mag well,they usually won't just drop free upon release,just need to grab them. I've heard some of the steel and/or aluminum mags(?) will hold 15rds and drop free....still waiting on the infamous pre-order list for them.
Edit:....oops,didn't notice your link there Darren,...DOH...yes,same mags from Bullseye.Odd,mine hold 14 no problem,can't stuff 15 though.

My PCV mags will hold 15, but won't feed the 15th in my benelli mr1. It will feed 14 flawlessly though.

[darren32]

Originally Posted by grinr

I have the Press Check Ventures plastic .50BW mags.They hold and feed 14rds 5.56 very well in XCR but a wee bit tight in mag well,they usually won't just drop free upon release,just need to grab them. I've heard some of the steel and/or aluminum mags(?) will hold 15rds and drop free....still waiting on the infamous pre-order list for them.
Edit:....oops,didn't notice your link there Darren,...DOH...yes,same mags from Bullseye.Odd,mine hold 14 no problem,can't stuff 15 though.

I can't get 15 in mine either. Maybe with a lot of force but the mags don't seem all that strong. 14 I can do but it seems the top of the mag separates / widens (for me) and I have trouble getting the mag into the gun easily. 13 works good for me tho so that is what I typically run with. (or I just stick with the LAR steel 10 round mags which run perfectly).

Thanks