Youths with Crossbow in Archery Season?

Originally Posted by stubblejumper

Why not just allow 12 year olds to use a gun like they do in other provinces?

12 year olds are allowed to hunt big game with rifles in Alberta.

[LongDraw]

Bottom line is just take her out hunting. I really feel that it is a stretch saying that letting youths hunt with crossbows in a bow season will recruit more young hunters. What we need is no minimum age for hunting period! Just direct parent or guardian supervision until maybe 14 or so. This is what we should be lobbying for! It's one thing to have her handling a crossbow in a very controlled situation at Alford lake shooting at a target butt, as you know a hunting situation is totally different. I still say that if she has difficulty with a 20 pound bow, a crossbow will have its own myriad of difficulties. a .243 on the other hand would get the job done, and a 12 year old gal would have no trouble with that!

This spring take the young gal out with her 20 pound bow into a gopher field! Getting youth out "hunting" is not just about getting them to harvest their first deer you know.

12 year olds are allowed to hunt big game with rifles in Alberta.

Was that changed last year?

Originally Posted by stubblejumper

Was that changed last year?

Yup

Missed the change.

[blades]

Hey Straight Arrow, would you rather have your daughter use a firearm, or fling an arrow during archery season.....to get her started, and hunting with you?

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by christensen

Thats right we should make a one season for all life is about changes and this shouldnt make a deference,if anything we can only learn from the past "not live in it."

If you are insinuating that I have an obsolete "stuck in the past" mindset, then so be it.
However, I have never felt handicapped by hunting with archery gear or patched round ball in a regular hunting season.

I have a problem with people who use a particular weapon only if it affords them an extra season, and would not bother with that equipment unless they could hunt in its 'special " season.
That is what I am saying .
if you don't like my attitude, fine.....

Cat

[mountainmike]

Stublejumper
I agree take them as much as you can.......however when you have an Ex-wife that don't like hunting, guns, and bows for that matter, it's hard. This past weekend before they came over they had the RIOT ACT read to them about being safe. Safety is #1 in my books wit my kids. They have sports almost all weekends.....that their mom puts them in. So missing games doesn't go over well. And that isn't something that I want to be doing either.

I will say this though it's a pleasure watching them shoot their new little bows. Everyday they come over now they have some new target of an animal printed of the internet. 1st time was an elk, bear, and said this one is for you dad A BIGHORN SHEEP. Well today when I picked them up they had the oilers logo......way to funny.

Now hunting is getting to be about my boys more and more each year. The little one keeps begging to go sheep hunting.......I can't wait for the day. Took him elk hunting once and ended up piggy backing him back to the truck 2 kms. Don't know who's smile was bigger...mine or his??? felt like I packed out a animal that day. Ranks up there with one of my best days hunting and I never even saw an elk that day.

Sorry for ramblin.....kinda got caught up in the moment opps.

[blades]

Originally Posted by LongDraw

Bottom line is just take her out hunting. I really feel that it is a stretch saying that letting youths hunt with crossbows in a bow season will recruit more young hunters. What we need is no minimum age for hunting period! Just direct parent or guardian supervision until maybe 14 or so. This is what we should be lobbying for! It's one thing to have her handling a crossbow in a very controlled situation at Alford lake shooting at a target butt, as you know a hunting situation is totally different. I still say that if she has difficulty with a 20 pound bow, a crossbow will have its own myriad of difficulties. a .243 on the other hand would get the job done, and a 12 year old gal would have no trouble with that!

This spring take the young gal out with her 20 pound bow into a gopher field! Getting youth out "hunting" is not just about getting them to harvest their first deer you know.

You make valid points, Longdraw. Especially your last one. That is what it is all about!

If you are insinuating that I have an obsolete "stuck in the past" mindset, then so be it

Just remember you said it not me.

[ljbb]

I have two daughters, that both struggled to shoot twenty five pound bows. With lots of encouragement and turning there bows up a little every second or third week of shooting, they could easly shoot the fourty pound requirement to bow hunt at the age of twelve. In fact it took me many years after to get them to shoot a gun. The Alberta Bowhunter's give every youth that attends there banquet a prize, talk about encouragement. My oldest daughter missed several shots with her bow , but the rush she got from even triing and being that close kept her coming back. My youngest daughter struggled to pull back fourty, but with lots of shooting , she was succesful the first evening of archery season.

I would encourage anybody that is starting there kids out hunting , give archery a try. All things dont come easy is a ver y valuable lesson. There is nothing better to spend archery season not having to worry about bullets flying past you.

Stublejumper
I agree take them as much as you can.......however when you have an Ex-wife that don't like hunting, guns, and bows for that matter, it's hard.

So do you believe that she would be less upset if the kids actually carried a weapon and hunted,than if they just accompanied you unarmed while you hunted.I really doubt that.Either way,you get to spend the same amount of time with your kids.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by christensen

Just remember you said it not me.

I don't consider it "stuck in the past"
I consider it shooting what i like to shoot, and learning to shoot it...
Cat

[Straight Arrow]

Good discussion guys.

It is great that the membership of this board have such passion for the outdoors. It has probably grown from an early age with many pleasant memories, which is part of what keeps us going back out. Think back, what memories are strongest for you? Your first walk in the bush or your first actual hunt where you were the hunter? What thoughts and feelings went through your head? What if you had missed the opportunity to hunt for whatever reason? Would you be a hunter today or might you be a non-hunter, or worse, an anti-hunter? Think about all of your boyhood friends that were exposed to hunting. Are any of them non-hunters now? What if they had been able to experience more and have more pleasant memories, as you likely did? Would they still share your passion? Would they still be your hunting partners today? For older guys, do you wish you had had more opportunities to hunt with your children? For those that have kids in their future, I know it is hard to imagine it but when the day comes will you want as many chances as possible to share your passion with them?

Mountainmike said "this would give me a whole bunch more weekends to spend with them, teaching them what my father taught me." Learning the ways of nature gives people a better understanding of our world. Teaching the future generations is the only way we will sustain our hunting heritage and overcome all of the challenges that lie ahead. We all want to hunt until we drop dead sitting on a cutline but it will require the next generation of hunters to continue to fight for that “right” for us and to protect the habitat we want to do it in.

Regarding the sentiments that future possible hunters should just make a choice to hunt, that is exactly what we all want. However, it is not that simple for most. People make their future choices based on their previous experiences. We should be able to create as many good, positive hunting experiences as possible, to help them make good future choices to hunt.

My girls have toured through the bush with me since I was able to carry them in my backpack. They have gone hunting, scouting, sitting and watching, shed hunting, picture taking, visiting me in elk camp, shooting a toy bow at 2 etc. etc. However, at about 5 years old they got into Ringette (similar to hockey). Our 12 year old currently plays on 2 teams, the 10 year old on one, mom plays and manages on teams and dad coaches. We seem to live at the rink, and we love it. It is one of their passions. It is almost over for the year but guess what? ball practice has already started. These are not my choices, the girls are making the choices on what they want to do as they enjoy the challenges and companionship that these activities allow them to experience. We support their choices. If it were only up to me we would be spending all those hours either in the bush or shooting, but it mostly isn't up to me. Maybe if I had been stronger they wouldn't have strayed.


Fortunately, from August to December, when I am not at the rink or at work I generally am sitting over a trail or calling some critters. The girls come with me when they can and they want more. They want to hunt. They want to hunt for the same reasons as you did when you started.

Why should the choice of weapon be the limiting factor when it is so similar to one currently in use? Should you or I have to tell our kids they have to wait another couple of years until they can shoot a 40lb bow accurately when we can set them up in a chair in a blind with a crossbow and a bipod/shooting stick? What if they don't want to in 2 years? What if they have something else they want to do? I want them to hunt as much as possible before they hit their teens and all of the distractions that they may encounter. We live in the country but they still will like boys (yuck ), they still will want to do sleepovers at friends, they still will want to experience other things in life. Unfortunately I am not in total control of that, I can only guide them.

My point is, at this time they DO want to spend whatever time we can together in the bush. They DO want to hunt. I just want to be able to take advantage of those times as much as possible to allow them to experience more of the excitement of the bush that we all share. Then, hopefully, they will be hooked for life and will pass the passion on to their kids.

Sorry for the long post.

Straight Arrow

[CNP]

Like I said..................sorry.

Nobody has made a case for this. You can bring your children with you anytime you want. But it's not necessary they have access to a 200# crossbow with a physical mass of 6-7#. You perceive that your children want to pull the trigger......thats the only thing thats being lobbied for here. If they can haul a 6-7# crossbow around the bush and cock it, they should be able to draw a 40# bow. If your going to haul the crossbow around for them and cock it for them.......then that afirms that the only thing you are looking to gain is a "pull the trigger" option. And you limit this only to children........that is wrong. There is a larger segment of society that should be looked at if you want to legalize crossbows in the archery season. Women and elderly men may qualify for this? Why should they be left out? Either crossbows are legalized in the archery season or they aren't. In the mean time I would suggest exercise and increasing archery opportunites that lead to the goal of drawing a 40# bow. This is definately not an in-road for the eventual inclusion of crossbows in the archery season. It's just another small focus special interest issue, that shouldn't even be seriously considered. It's got too much baggage with it.....age 12 to ? So when they reach a certain age they can't use it anymore? That makes sense? Strip away the emotion from this and there isn't anything left. Go for the whole enchilada, not a little slice. That being said, I don't support the use of crossbows in the archery season by anyone.

[huntinggr81]

I just want to comment on "Jamies" previous posts to this thread. Shot guns & muzzleloaders are NOTHING like a bow & I sure as hell don't want guys out blasting of shots while I'm stalking or calling big game during any open bow season.

[lazy ike]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I have a problem with people who use a particular weapon only if it affords them an extra season, and would not bother with that equipment unless they could hunt in its 'special " season.
That is what I am saying .
if you don't like my attitude, fine.....Cat

That's not an attitude thats a reality. Off the top of my head, I know 3 guys who bought bows to extend their season. All of them bought used equipment without any research or knowledge about bowhunting beyond the fact they could start hunting earlier. None of them really practice enough to be anything more than dangerous.

I would not mind the season being divided equally between Bow,crossbow,Shotty/blackpowder and rifle. Also the order of the indivdual seasons could be rotated each year.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by huntinggr81

I just want to comment on "Jamies" previous posts to this thread. Shot guns & muzzleloaders are NOTHING like a bow & I sure as hell don't want guys out blasting of shots while I'm stalking or calling big game during any open bow season.

I may be wrong, but can't you hunt with ML, shotgun, or Bow in Strathcona county ?

I have never heard of any confrontations in this area.

I have rattled in a few hunters in the regular season while I was hunting with my bow however!!
Cat

[Straight Arrow]

I agree that all that cannot shoot a legal bow should be allowed to use a xbow, women, children, elderly men or disabled.

In reference to take them out with a .243, sure. The problem is that in most populated zones you have to wait until November. In November the sun sets early, limiting available hours to hunt quite drastically. In Sept and Oct there would be many more opportunities to evening hunt and many more weekends available to expose the youths to hunting experiences.

It's been said to take the emotion out of it. To me, it is all about emotion. The emotions that we experience while being hunters is what keeps us looking forward to the next trip. If emotion wasn't part of the equation, I wouldn't do it.

It is fine to say to take them with you, let them watch etc. That has already been done many times. However when you watch your favorite spectator sport or other activity and the excitement builds how excited do you get? Now think about how excited you would be if it was you that was holding that Stanley Cup over your head!! There is a huge difference between being a spectator at hunting and being a key participant, the hunter.

I went out for a walk yesterday morning to check out a new spot I was granted permission on. It was a beautiful morning, snow still falling... wait whats that? A fresh deer bed. Tracks leading that way. Eventually I was standing 25 yards from a couple of does looking at me, annoyed. Was I excited? Yes. Was I as excited as I was in November? No, ...I was not hunting.

When you are on stand and some game walks by that you are not hunting, you get a little excited but not fully. Now, the critter that you are after walks by and as you hope for a shot opportunity, wow, now it is hard to contain your excitement!! It is hard to keep your thoughts together, your knees from shaking etc. to get to the point that your are actually able to take a shot. After you take that shot it is such a release of emotion that many shake visibly, heavy breathing, almost falling out of your stand etc. Now that's emotion!

Being the hunter completely changes your perspective. You are more alert, more in tune, there is more excitement in your belly. You are thinking, and learning and in the end, whether you harvest an animal or not you have experienced many of the emotions of a hunter in preparing to be one.

As I said before, it is those experiences that I want others to have as much as possible, hopefully to create a new, long term hunter.

[aulrich]

I am with longdraw there is other stuff to hunt other than deer. Even though I hardly hunt birds anymore thats what got me hooked. Gauging by my boys interest I suspect I will be getting back into it shortly.

Maybe in the bad old days the no x-bows made sense (you remember 1 tag bucks only) but not anymore. in the old days the low harvest rate of a regular bow, was used to justify to the rifle hunters that they would still have deer to shoot.

So the root of all this is if they let hunters use x sort of weapon then there will be nothing for me to shoot or they will be all spooked, the same BS over and over. Take you pick elitism or greed because harvest rate does not count anymore.

We should be activly looking for new seasons or tweak the ones we have now x-bows muzzleloader, handguns? as long as the harvest is within the managment goals it all good.