How To End This Covid Stupidity

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by wwbirds

I have never experienced a pandemic before but regardless if all the governments did nothing there would be people complaining the government. didnt do enough. I have no use for the Liberals in charge but they did do something and yes that shut down the economy and incurred billions in debt yet others want to test the herd immunity theory and let the chips fall where they may. Cant support that either as too many elderly and immune compromised would die. I cant believe in a civilized society we would just take the at risk people out on the ice flow for the betterment of the herd. We just dont do that anymore. financial implications of going in debt billions to support citizens with bailouts will be expensive and take years to recover but are no worse than the last pandemic of spanish flu over 4 years which killed millions and probably caused the great depression. Kind of a pay me now or pay for it later. Debt is a relative term for I believe this will cause incredible debt to most developed countries and extraordinary deaths to poor countries either directly through catching covid or the depression to follow. Some people in Canada are two months or 2 weeks away from a foreclosure but get cerb benefits yet in some countries they have no food shelter or benefits from the governnent at all. Be careful what we complain about it can always get worse.

good post!

[Iron Brew]

Originally Posted by hogie

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/nat...low-the-virus/

A good read on Canada's lack of response with Trudeau leading. Remember they were more concerned about being racist than the virus. Don't criticize China either.

The provinces took the lead on this. Ontario and Quebec both did restrictions before the feds did. Before Alberta shut down the schools feds were still allowing international flights, never shut down flights from the epicenter in Wuhan at all. It would be a knee jerk reaction according to Trudeau.

This has been handled poorly in Canada from a federal level. All they want to do at this point is give out money for votes. They won't even criticize China or WHO.

Not saying the feds didn't screw up, and never did. Your comment was about Canada and the US being at the same time. This is false. The feds did screw up. In bunches. The feds south of us screwed up even worse. Your comment that they reacted at the same time is incorrect. Or, at least, incorrect when you include the totality of the responses, such as provincial borders being closed, etc. There is going to be a lot of hand wringing and accusations and blame going on here. There is going to be a huge amount of "hindsight is 20/20". Get over it. Given how dismissive people are NOW about the disease, after all the evidence, imagine how dismissive ALL the politicians were until the evidence was just too large to dismiss. Mistakes are being made, will be made, and have been made. People have to go with their best judgement. Then add politics into the mix. As I was told in the military "sometimes you just have to make a decision and go with it. Just be willing to change as the information and situation change".

[Bub]

Do people really still think the virus was brought to Canada because we didn't stop flights from China? Here is some official data from the two most affected provinces on their early cases.



It was taken from this article in National Post: Canada's early COVID-19 cases came from the U.S. not China, provincial data shows. You can read the whole article, it isn't long, but I will quote three partial paragraphs here:

As of April 17, Ontario has identified 1,201 cases of COVID-19 in people who had recently returned from some type of international travel. Of those cases, just five related to travel from China. By contrast, 404 were from people travelling from the United States.

...In Quebec, 373 cases came from the United States and the province reports zero cases connected to travel from China.

...Alberta didn’t have a complete breakdown of its travel cases, but had only a single case connected to China, while fully 36 per cent of its travel-related cases are from the United States. British Columbia was unable to provide a breakdown by country, but the province’s data shows that, while its first cases were from travel, most came from spread within the community.

In early March, BC alone was testing more people than the whole of the United States of America! That's given the fact that the first case in the US was reported on January 20, I believe. I guess I should also mention that the population of BC is just over 5 million people and the USA has about 330 million. By February 27, 1 month and 1 week after the first case was reported, they have tested a whooping 459 people in the US (from this Global News article, and I checked the number back on the day I read the article and it is true).

For those who think that they are currently testing more than anyone in the world, take a look at this (as of May 22):



Here is the source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ies-worldwide/

Can anyone guess from where the next wave will come from to Canada once we open the border? If you guessed "down south", you are probably right. But yes, Trump's press secretary is pretty hot.

It really amazes me that people choose to post stuff that is easily verifiable to be garbage when the facts are so easy to find for anyone willing to look. In this case, the garbage includes, but not limited to, "we would be dandy if we stopped those damn flights from China" and "yes, the US has the highest testing rate on the planet". The Sweden myth can be easily debunked as well. South Korea, Taiwan, and Singapore are tracking people via phones and other means like hardly any of you fine folks are willing to allow. So what is the solution beside "it's a hoax"?

In the meantime, in China they haven't reported any cases yesterday for the first time since the beginning of the pandemic (proof) and reported 3 cases today (proof). But yes, lockdowns do not work.

[Bergerboy]

Hey Bub, remember that you cannot make good assumptions on the data due to different methods of reporting and such. You can use it as an indicator but I do not think the data is very accurate.

[mad mountain mike]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

Hey Bub, remember that you cannot make good assumptions on the data due to different methods of reporting and such. You can use it as an indicator but I do not think the data is very accurate.

That’s what I was thinking. There were dozens of flights if not 100’s from China during that time frame, passengers were reporting zero screening. How could there be accurate stats?

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by mad mountain mike

That’s what I was thinking. There were dozens of flights if not 100’s from China during that time frame, passengers were reporting zero screening. How could there be accurate stats?

Agreed. Each country reports the numbers it wants to, not what it has to. There is also the schmozzle down in the USA where everything was called a covid related death so hospitals would receive more funding. When it comes to looking at data the old saying will always ring true "Garbage In = Garbage Out".

[glen moa]

When bologna is everywhere look for sign.

Are the hospitals full and people on the steps dead?
How bad is it then? Tell me please.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by glen moa

When bologna is everywhere look for sign.

Are the hospitals full and people on the steps dead?
How bad is it then? Tell me please.

Bad enough that not just a town shut down but pretty much the entire world....and your still alive....like most ......still have the energy to complain...

I think that's a good thing.

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Bad enough that not just a town shut down but pretty much the entire world....and your still alive....like most ......still have the energy to complain...

I think that's a good thing.

And he is not an octogenarian. In my neighborhood no one seems to have "socially distanced" as all the kids are riding bike or playing basketball together. Nothing happened. I am suspecting Michael Moore will make a documentary about how the entire world ran itself off of a cliff over the sniffles.

[calgarygringo]

Not a whole lot different than the CDC reporting that most of the cases of covid in the New York state area had nothing to do with China but came from all the Europeans entering at JFK and Newark airports. Trump bragging he shut down China but let eeveryoe walk in from the worst countries of covid.

Originally Posted by Bub

Do people really still think the virus was brought to Canada because we didn't stop flights from China? Here is some official data from the two most affected provinces on their early cases.



It was taken from this article in National Post: Canada's early COVID-19 cases came from the U.S. not China, provincial data shows. You can read the whole article, it isn't long, but I will quote three partial paragraphs here:

As of April 17, Ontario has identified 1,201 cases of COVID-19 in people who had recently returned from some type of international travel. Of those cases, just five related to travel from China. By contrast, 404 were from people travelling from the United States.

...In Quebec, 373 cases came from the United States and the province reports zero cases connected to travel from China.

...Alberta didn’t have a complete breakdown of its travel cases, but had only a single case connected to China, while fully 36 per cent of its travel-related cases are from the United States. British Columbia was unable to provide a breakdown by country, but the province’s data shows that, while its first cases were from travel, most came from spread within the community.

In early March, BC alone was testing more people than the whole of the United States of America! That's given the fact that the first case in the US was reported on January 20, I believe. I guess I should also mention that the population of BC is just over 5 million people and the USA has about 330 million. By February 27, 1 month and 1 week after the first case was reported, they have tested a whooping 459 people in the US (from this Global News article, and I checked the number back on the day I read the article and it is true).

For those who think that they are currently testing more than anyone in the world, take a look at this (as of May 22):



Here is the source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ies-worldwide/

Can anyone guess from where the next wave will come from to Canada once we open the border? If you guessed "down south", you are probably right. But yes, Trump's press secretary is pretty hot.

It really amazes me that people choose to post stuff that is easily verifiable to be garbage when the facts are so easy to find for anyone willing to look. In this case, the garbage includes, but not limited to, "we would be dandy if we stopped those damn flights from China" and "yes, the US has the highest testing rate on the planet". The Sweden myth can be easily debunked as well. South Korea, Taiwan, and Singapore are tracking people via phones and other means like hardly any of you fine folks are willing to allow. So what is the solution beside "it's a hoax"?

In the meantime, in China they haven't reported any cases yesterday for the first time since the beginning of the pandemic (proof) and reported 3 cases today (proof). But yes, lockdowns do not work.

[1899b]

Originally Posted by Iron Brew

There are so many not worth the breath here. But I will respond for those who have been putting themselves at risk.

Yes, I’ve been laid off.
Yes, i want to get back to work.

No, I don’t want my parents to die. They have worse odds of surviving this if they catch it than they do of surviving Russian roulette. If that means you have to wait an extra six months to afford your quad, too effing bad.

Our first responders have been the ones paying for this stupidity. The soldiers who went in to help when all other resources failed are paying for this. If you are that callous about the risks they, firefighters, paramedics, nurses, and whole bunches more have been taking to try keep everyone else safe, how about you go do the training, and become employable in that field so when round two or three comes round you can take your place risking yourself and your family? We are the lucky ones getting to sit it out and protect our families by avoidance. My respect for those beaking without any skin in the game is slim to none. Go put your money where your mouths are. If you can pass the training.

Yes, the government did some things wrong. Things I think they should not have got wrong. But - we have never, in history, had something like this while ALSO having the resources we do. This is a learning experience and i hope like hell they have a faster reaction next time.

Wait to buy your next quad?? Wow. Get a clue. Families are falling apart all over because of this. Child abuse cases are down. You know why? Schools, sports teams and daycares are all the whistle blowers that notify when there is something not right with a child. My buddy is an RCMP member here and domestic violence has almost doubled according to what he is dealing with shift by shift. People have lost jobs, kids in my family will not have a grad. Tell your parents to stay home and isolate themselves!! No need to shut down every aspect of life. My folks are staying home. They are in the high risk bracket with some ailments. This is getting to be a joke..

[Glion]

Originally Posted by Bub

Do people really still think the virus was brought to Canada because we didn't stop flights from China? Here is some official data from the two most affected provinces on their early cases.



It was taken from this article in National Post: Canada's early COVID-19 cases came from the U.S. not China, provincial data shows. You can read the whole article, it isn't long, but I will quote three partial paragraphs here:

As of April 17, Ontario has identified 1,201 cases of COVID-19 in people who had recently returned from some type of international travel. Of those cases, just five related to travel from China. By contrast, 404 were from people travelling from the United States.

...In Quebec, 373 cases came from the United States and the province reports zero cases connected to travel from China.

...Alberta didn’t have a complete breakdown of its travel cases, but had only a single case connected to China, while fully 36 per cent of its travel-related cases are from the United States. British Columbia was unable to provide a breakdown by country, but the province’s data shows that, while its first cases were from travel, most came from spread within the community.

In early March, BC alone was testing more people than the whole of the United States of America! That's given the fact that the first case in the US was reported on January 20, I believe. I guess I should also mention that the population of BC is just over 5 million people and the USA has about 330 million. By February 27, 1 month and 1 week after the first case was reported, they have tested a whooping 459 people in the US (from this Global News article, and I checked the number back on the day I read the article and it is true).

For those who think that they are currently testing more than anyone in the world, take a look at this (as of May 22):



Here is the source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ies-worldwide/

Can anyone guess from where the next wave will come from to Canada once we open the border? If you guessed "down south", you are probably right. But yes, Trump's press secretary is pretty hot.

It really amazes me that people choose to post stuff that is easily verifiable to be garbage when the facts are so easy to find for anyone willing to look. In this case, the garbage includes, but not limited to, "we would be dandy if we stopped those damn flights from China" and "yes, the US has the highest testing rate on the planet". The Sweden myth can be easily debunked as well. South Korea, Taiwan, and Singapore are tracking people via phones and other means like hardly any of you fine folks are willing to allow. So what is the solution beside "it's a hoax"?

In the meantime, in China they haven't reported any cases yesterday for the first time since the beginning of the pandemic (proof) and reported 3 cases today (proof). But yes, lockdowns do not work.

I don't recall anyone saying the US does the most testing? I do the recall saying they are up there.
Here is current data on testing
https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-testing
While you hold up Taiwan as a model just remember that they have done very little testing per million ppl which might be why the show so few cases as well.
There is ample data showing very little correlation between lockdowns and cases just as there is some data saying lockdowns and cases do correlate
We discussed this before already.
Of course we import more cases from the US than anywhere else... take a look at where most of our traffic is from... and not just vacationers but also business travel and trucks.
As for shutting down to China Trump had the guts to do it and we should have as well, if you trust the numbers coming out of China then hats off to you.
Not sure what your whole point was as you seem to be advocating lockdown but at the same time saying lockdown to china wouldn't help much. Unless of course you are advocating lockdown to the states our biggest trading partner?

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

And he is not an octogenarian. In my neighborhood no one seems to have "socially distanced" as all the kids are riding bike or playing basketball together. Nothing happened. I am suspecting Michael Moore will make a documentary about how the entire world ran itself off of a cliff over the sniffles.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canad...cid=spartandhp

maybe not in your neck of the woods but with 258 cases on Friday then this....now imagine if one of those wankers went on a road trip to your neck of the woods to visit someone....maybe play a little b-ball with the kids....gotta see the big picture not just a snap shot of your neighbourhood….stay healthy.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by 1899b

Wait to buy your next quad?? Wow. Get a clue. Families are falling apart all over because of this. Child abuse cases are down. You know why? Schools, sports teams and daycares are all the whistle blowers that notify when there is something not right with a child. My buddy is an RCMP member here and domestic violence has almost doubled according to what he is dealing with shift by shift. People have lost jobs, kids in my family will not have a grad. Tell your parents to stay home and isolate themselves!! No need to shut down every aspect of life. My folks are staying home. They are in the high risk bracket with some ailments. This is getting to be a joke..

It passed that point some time ago

[1899b]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

It passed that point some time ago

I agree with you but I have been patient with it. Now it’s time to get on with it.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

It passed that point some time ago

Yup and I think it’s time to just except people have lost their minds and leave them to their own thoughts.

It’s reached the stage to just say screw it and watch the gong show because we are not left with any choice.

I think it’s time to be a spectator

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canad...cid=spartandhp

maybe not in your neck of the woods but with 258 cases on Friday then this....now imagine if one of those wankers went on a road trip to your neck of the woods to visit someone....maybe play a little b-ball with the kids....gotta see the big picture not just a snap shot of your neighbourhood….stay healthy.

I will have to get on board with you in regards to that article. I feel we are way overreacting but that group in Toronto is too far the other way. We need to drop the SD measures on commerce related places but t have large gatherings for leisure is kinda silly.

As per me "seeing the big picture", I have had a fairly lucrative career as a data analyst defining metrics, presenting KPI's and designing algorithms for trend analysis. This is my wheelhouse so to speak. This is why I love seeing peoples opinions on how we should handle this virus as I find it very amusing. Keep on givven er!

[Fur]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

It passed that point some time ago

Now it is a sick joke.

My wife is not a teacher, she's teaching two kids now. Love the wife but the education is meh.

Ontario teachers big striking point was that online education is terrible and cannot replace the class room. Well that went out the window when everything became online? Parents are not equivalent to teachers. Give credit to teachers!!!

Teenagers not able to socialize? Not hanging out with friends for months? Give me a break.

Do not even get me started on preventative cancer screening.

This whole thing has became a "who can be most dramatic on facebook or in the press".

Be smart if you have risks.

It is always the extreme:

If you do not stop climate change you will kill the children of future generations. You are selfish

If you do not fix the hole in the ozone you will kill the children of the future. You are selfish.

If you eat meet you do not care about animals. You are selfish

If you have Ar15 guns you do not care about the school shootings in a different country. You are selfish

If you do not give one hour on Sunday to church you are going to hell. You are selfish.

If you do not isolate you are killing old people. You are selfish.

Gets old......

[Austin]

Originally Posted by Fur

Now it is a sick joke.

My wife is not a teacher, she's teaching two kids now. Love the wife but the education is meh.

Ontario teachers big striking point was that online education is terrible and cannot replace the class room. Well that went out the window when everything became online? Parents are not equivalent to teachers. Give credit to teachers!!!

Teenagers not able to socialize? Not hanging out with friends for months? Give me a break.

Do not even get me started on preventative cancer screening.

This whole thing has became a "who can be most dramatic on facebook or in the press".

Be smart if you have risks.

It is always the extreme:

If you do not stop climate change you will kill the children of future generations. You are selfish

If you do not fix the hole in the ozone you will kill the children of the future. You are selfish.

If you eat meet you do not care about animals. You are selfish

If you have Ar15 guns you do not care about the school shootings in a different country. You are selfish

If you do not give one hour on Sunday to church you are going to hell. You are selfish.

If you do not isolate you are killing old people. You are selfish.

Gets old......

Agree. That is how the naysayers make it About themselves and self worth

[270person]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

Stop with the theatrics already, you are smarter than that. Nobody said anything about sacrificing the elderly or at risk. In fact, I have clearly said, many times, that the government should have taken 1:100 of all the $ they wasted on the daily money tossing welfare programs, and used it to actually protect the vulnerable. And the rest of us could follow whatever rules necessary to not infect the vulnerable, and still get on with life. Without destroying all kinds of other lives, and the economy for generations to come. It's not that complicated.

I'm not speaking only of the elderly when I say ME, ME Nimby, TC. That was aimed squarely at those that think the whole Covid-19 thing was just a sham and should have been treated no differently than the common cold. Everything should have been business as usual.

Those are the people who Really don't get it. This thing spread across the entire planet. It wasn't even close to the same as other corona viruses, SARS, MERS, SARS-COV-2, 229E, HKU1, etc we've seen in our lifetimes. Anyone who was immuno comprimised like my younger brother who was on Prednisone for a year and a half during a cancer scare was vulnerable. Covid-19 wasn't particularly lethal to healthy folks with strong immune systems but look out if you didn't. It wasn't just the elderly.

Look on the bright side. Residents of GP will wash their hands more often and you won't have to hug people you don't really care for ever again, i.e. your hairstylist and latte club members.

It also made another "gone in 5" playoffs for the Flames impossible.

[1899b]

Originally Posted by 270person

I'm not speaking only of the elderly when I say ME, ME Nimby, TC. That was aimed squarely at those that think the whole Covid-19 thing was just a sham and should have been treated no differently than the common cold. Everything should have been business as usual.

Those are the people who Really don't get it. This thing spread across the entire planet. It wasn't even close to the same as other corona viruses, SARS, MERS, SARS-COV-2, 229E, HKU1, etc we've seen in our lifetimes. Anyone who was immuno comprimised like my younger brother who was on Prednisone for a year and a half during a cancer scare was vulnerable. Covid-19 wasn't particularly lethal to healthy folks with strong immune systems but look out if you didn't. It wasn't just the elderly.

Look on the bright side. Residents of GP will wash their hands more often and you won't have to hug people you don't really care for ever again, i.e. your hairstylist and latte club members.

It also made another "gone in 5" playoffs for the Flames impossible.

There is no bright side. Just an absolute over reaction.

[270person]

Originally Posted by Fur

It is always the extreme:

1. If you do not stop climate change you will kill the children of future generations. You are selfish

2. If you do not give one hour on Sunday to church you are going to hell. You are selfish.

3. If you do not isolate you are killing old people. You are selfish.

Gets old......

Actually I'd say #1 has some serious traction.

Nothing at all selfish in #2.

#3 would only be selfish if you had the virus and insisted on visiting a long term care or retirement home facility.

[270person]

Originally Posted by 1899b

There is no bright side. Just an absolute over reaction.

K doc.

And you could be right 're the Flames playoffs thingy. I'll miss watching them embarrass themselves

[dodger]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Yup and I think it’s time to just except people have lost their minds and leave them to their own thoughts.

It’s reached the stage to just say screw it and watch the gong show because we are not left with any choice.

I think it’s time to be a spectator

I'm in this boat now. I am going to be protective of my family and sit back and watch this experiment.

Dodger.

[1899b]

Originally Posted by 270person

K doc.

And you could be right 're the Flames playoffs thingy. I'll miss watching them embarrass themselves

I seriously think doctors weren’t as involved as some think. It was more politicians making the unguided decisions. Why do you think golf was the first to be opened?


Flames can pound sand...

[Jigsalot]

Originally Posted by dodger

I'm in this boat now. I am going to be protective of my family and sit back and watch this experiment.

Dodger.

Me too. All I can say is I hope they get a vaccine very soon. The US is going to be a disaster. Ontario and Quebec are scary.

[tri777]

Originally Posted by dodger

I'm in this boat now. I am going to be protective of my family and sit back and watch this experiment.

Dodger.

Walked into grocery store yesterday (unmasked) as some poor terrified woman (masked) was
walking out, she dang near clipped her right shoulder on the exit door frame as she darted frantically
trying her best to clear the contagious leprosy I was carrying. Hmmm, me thinks the current fleet
of societies short buses are gonna have to be lengthened pronto.

[270person]

Originally Posted by 1899b

I seriously think doctors weren’t as involved as some think. It was more politicians making the unguided decisions. Why do you think golf was the first to be opened?


Flames can pound sand...

I don't 100% disagree but I know a few docs that like their golf too.

Outdoor recreation should never have been shut down. Totally stupid. As were some others. I dont disagree with schools, bars, etc being closed up tho.

And there are bright sides. Maybe China will be forced to make changes to these ridiculous wet markets in China. Maybe society will wake up to proper hygiene and sanitation methods. This isn't going to be the last pandemic. It's probably what ends human existence eventually. Maybe we'll be better prepared for the next one, whatever it might be, or learn to do things differently to prevent or lessen the Next one. Pretty obvious around tgecworld that a lot of thngs have to change.

I prefer not to think the world will end in the next few years.

[1899b]

Originally Posted by 270person

I don't 100% disagree but I know a few docs that like their golf too.

Outdoor recreation should never have been shut down. Totally stupid. As were some others. I dont disagree with schools, bars, etc being closed up tho.

And there are bright sides. Maybe China will be forced to make changes to these ridiculous wet markets in China. Maybe society will wake up to proper hygiene and sanitation methods. This isn't going to be the last pandemic. It's probably what ends human existence eventually. Maybe we'll be better prepared for the next one, whatever it might be, or learn to do things differently to prevent or lessen the Next one. Pretty obvious around tgecworld that a lot of thngs have to change.

I prefer not to think the world will end in the next few years.

Agree with this post..

[Hooter]

Originally Posted by chuck

Even if it’s twice as bad, big whoop.

I often disagree with what you post, but this, sir, clearly shows you’re an idiot. Plain and simple.