Alberta Population growth

[oilngas]

So if 200,000 ( all number approximate) folks flocked to the province last year, and say 5% wanna fish = 10,000 new fishers, and the about the same number of new hunters, each and every year going forward. Knowing full well (OK just kidding here) that Danni and her pals support the outdoor folks to hunt, fish, camp, play, expand parks, increase access to Crown land, crowd extremely well, I guess we can look forward to increased opportunities eh!

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by oilngas

So if 200,000 ( all number approximate) folks flocked to the province last year, and say 5% wanna fish = 10,000 new fishers, and the about the same number of new hunters, each and every year going forward. Knowing full well (OK just kidding here) that Danni and her pals support the outdoor folks to hunt, fish, camp, play, expand parks, increase access to Crown land, crowd extremely well, I guess we can look forward to increased opportunities eh!

Sure can ! , but only in your dreams. Also in my dreams are the increased draw wait times, far less hunting opportunites and less space for for the rapidly declining Wildlife and shrinking Crown Land. The Good Ol' Days are now !

[Big Lou]

Originally Posted by Salavee

Sure can ! , but only in your dreams. Also in my dreams are the increased draw wait times, far less hunting opportunites and less space for for the rapidly declining Wildlife and shrinking Crown Land. The Good Ol' Days are now !

I know what you’re saying but, truth is, the good ol days were 25 years ago. Or more. My walls would look so much different, had I had any sort of clue what I was doing then. Game populations now, are not even a shadow of what they once were. I figure I’ll see one more run of great game numbers in my lifetime. At least, that’s what I tell myself anyway.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Big Lou

I know what you’re saying but, truth is, the good ol days were 25 years ago. Or more. My walls would look so much different, had I had any sort of clue what I was doing then. Game populations now, are not even a shadow of what they once were. I figure I’ll see one more run of great game numbers in my lifetime. At least, that’s what I tell myself anyway.

I think I'm gettin' old. My good old days were the late 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's. Peaked in the 70's. So much has changed now that I can barely beleive what I'm seeing these days. Actually very sad in many cases.
We still have pretty good hunting now, with ample opportunity but they are dwindling every year. I just wish many folks would see what is actually happening . I know many can, but there seems to be many more that can't or wont. No longer can we take anything for granted. Hang in, stay in the game and good things will happen for you.

Good job on the 'yotes Lou. Used to luv hunting them.

[pikergolf]

The shrinkage in pheasant habitat I have seen in my life time is mind numbing. Places that used to have hundreds of birds are now barren, mostly due to water conservation and farming habits. (Habitat loss)

[stob]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

The shrinkage in pheasant habitat I have seen in my life time is mind numbing. Places that used to have hundreds of birds are now barren, mostly due to water conservation and farming habits. (Habitat loss)

X2 for me and all my friends...I am fortunate to have access to wild birds on relations lands...but I have also learned to adapt as have the birds and animals...listen and learn... I could show you places around Strathmore that I don't have access and never asked that have a ton of birds...watch..scout ..learn...use gòod optics...you will be rewarded...same goes for ungulates...the mule deer now act like like whitetail under hard pressure.... I still bemoan the lack of cover and cover lost... all I can say

[Stinky Buffalo]

Back in the 90's I used to joke that I was looking forward to all the "Easterners" moving back East so I could bulldoze the cramped new developments and restore them to farmland.

I think a lot differently now, but like stob, when it comes to hunting, I am changing my style and approach. I'm hoping to push my creaky bones a little harder, scout more intelligently, take more time to learn. This forum helps a lot when it comes to the learning part.

[Sooner]

I think I was of the last generation who could buy a general moose tag. Those were the good ole days for me and I know it all too well when applying for draws these days.


Seen the good ole days of walleye and perch fishing too in this province.

[Big Grey Wolf]

I still remember when it took 1 day to harvest deer, 2-3 days for moose and perhaps week for elk. Now 10 days of hard hunting may or may not produce a animal on the meat pole.

[Talleyrandophile]

Originally Posted by oilngas

So if 200,000 ( all number approximate) folks flocked to the province last year, and say 5% wanna fish = 10,000 new fishers, and the about the same number of new hunters, each and every year going forward. Knowing full well (OK just kidding here) that Danni and her pals support the outdoor folks to hunt, fish, camp, play, expand parks, increase access to Crown land, crowd extremely well, I guess we can look forward to increased opportunities eh!

Given the demographic of people moving to Canada these days, I doubt as many as 5% will be very outdoorsy in any capacity...

[Smoky buck]

Game numbers are not as high but the hunting in Alberta is still better than a lot of provinces

Things are not going to get better either unless hunters get organized and start investing in the future of hunting in Alberta

[Samik]

I'm one of those folks that just moved to Alberta. After 21yrs in BC, and watching Canada's greatest hunting and fishing get eroded by Government, special interest groups, "Keepers of the Land", and the Green Taliban it was time to leave. That and I stole one of your women, and she wasn't going to leave.

Don't worry, after BC, I'm really only here for the Pike and birds. Your private land deer are safe

Most of my work was always in Alberta Oil & Gas anyways, and you lot are the last "Free" place in Kanada. I'm looking forward to having my tax dollars go to a province that supports their citizens.

[SouthWestRanger]

Originally Posted by Samik

I'm one of those folks that just moved to Alberta. After 21yrs in BC, and watching Canada's greatest hunting and fishing get eroded by Government, special interest groups, "Keepers of the Land", and the Green Taliban it was time to leave. That and I stole one of your women, and she wasn't going to leave.

Don't worry, after BC, I'm really only here for the Pike and birds. Your private land deer are safe

Most of my work was always in Alberta Oil & Gas anyways, and you lot are the last "Free" place in Kanada. I'm looking forward to having my tax dollars go to a province that supports their citizens.

Happy to have you sir

[Who Da Fisherman]

Stop the hunter host program would be a step in the right direction.
Kinda like fowl Sask., seem to work there.
WDF

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Who Da Fisherman

Stop the hunter host program would be a step in the right direction.
Kinda like fowl Sask., seem to work there.
WDF

At least keep non residents out of the draw system and general season opportunities only

[SouthWestRanger]

I’d be fine if non resident were general seasons only and if outfitter allocations actually reflected the 10% or whatever they were supposed to. All these are band aid solutions though until we address the un regulated hunting and predator management issues.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by SouthWestRanger

I’d be fine if non resident were general seasons only and if outfitter allocations actually reflected the 10% or whatever they were supposed to. All these are band aid solutions though until we address the un regulated hunting and predator management issues.

I remember the days when a prairie mule deer draw was every second year. Lot's of quality deer around. Game number have plummeted in many zones not only due to the reasons stated above, but the numbers of antlerless tags given out. Absolutely ridiculous. Want to bring back game populations, quit shooting the "spawners". Government hands out antlerless tags like halloween candy and everyone seems happy to fill them all. No females, no recruitment. Not a hard one to figure out. I don't shoot anterless and don't allow anyone to shoot antlerless on my place. Wish more would do the same.

Alberta doesn't manage wildlife, they manage hunters.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

I remember the days when a prairie mule deer draw was every second year. Lot's of quality deer around. Game number have plummeted in many zones not only due to the reasons stated above, but the numbers of antlerless tags given out. Absolutely ridiculous. Want to bring back game populations, quit shooting the "spawners". Government hands out antlerless tags like halloween candy and everyone seems happy to fill them all. No females, no recruitment. Not a hard one to figure out. I don't shoot anterless and don't allow anyone to shoot antlerless on my place. Wish more would do the same.

Alberta doesn't manage wildlife, they manage hunters.

I will agree and disagree with your statement

I am 100% in agreement that there needs to be a cut back in antlerless harvest in parts of Alberta. It definitely is having a negative impact

That said antlerless harvest in moderation is still good for overall herd health too. There is lots of studies supporting this and odds are you know at least a few examples yourself

What is taking place with mule deer antlerless tags and doubling up supplemental tags is not moderate antlerless harvest though. It is pretty clear the harvest goal is to lower populations

The reality of it is decreasing game numbers is contributed to multiple factors

[SouthWestRanger]

Should have mentioned when I say predator management I mean 2 and 4 legs haha, but absolutely, we no longer hunt antlerless mule deer in our areas and only harvest whitetuals does of our own quarter where we simply have too many deer for a healthy herd. No more cow moose in our household either, sometimes it’s up to individuals to make the change when regs won’t change first.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

I will agree and disagree with your statement

I am 100% in agreement that there needs to be a cut back in antlerless harvest in parts of Alberta. It definitely is having a negative impact

That said antlerless harvest in moderation is still good for overall herd health too. There is lots of studies supporting this and odds are you know at least a few examples yourself

What is taking place with mule deer antlerless tags and doubling up supplemental tags is not moderate antlerless harvest though. It is pretty clear the harvest goal is to lower populations

The reality of it is decreasing game numbers is contributed to multiple factors

There is one factor contributing to low ungulate numbers in the parkland/prairie WMU's. That would be an overabundance of tags given out, be it antlered or antlerless. Least that is what I see from having spent my entire life in Alberta hunting those zones.

What WMU's in Alberta do you believe are at carrying capacity for ungulates?

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

What WMU's in Alberta do you believe are at carrying capacity for ungulates?

None of the ones have reliable experience in

[SouthWestRanger]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

What WMU's in Alberta do you believe are at carrying capacity for ungulates?

I can tell you it ain’t the mountains either, abysmal game numbers and densities in the 400s for the most part.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by SouthWestRanger

I can tell you it ain’t the mountains either, abysmal game numbers and densities in the 400s for the most part.

Well thankfully the 400's (and 300's) are at, actually well above their carrying capacity of gbears.
Elk non existent and sheep numbers down though. Goats seem to be doing well though

[wind drift]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

I remember the days when a prairie mule deer draw was every second year. Lot's of quality deer around. Game number have plummeted in many zones not only due to the reasons stated above, but the numbers of antlerless tags given out. Absolutely ridiculous. Want to bring back game populations, quit shooting the "spawners". Government hands out antlerless tags like halloween candy and everyone seems happy to fill them all. No females, no recruitment. Not a hard one to figure out. I don't shoot anterless and don't allow anyone to shoot antlerless on my place. Wish more would do the same.

Alberta doesn't manage wildlife, they manage hunters.

CWD. Can’t ignore a disease that kills all infected deer within 2 years.

[wind drift]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Well thankfully the 400's (and 300's) are at, actually well above their carrying capacity of gbears.
Elk non existent and sheep numbers down though. Goats seem to be doing well though

How many bears / km2 is carrying capacity? Does it ever change or stay the same forever? What’s your estimate of goat population number, by WMU?

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by wind drift

CWD. Can’t ignore a disease that kills all infected deer within 2 years.

Every Tom, Dick and Jane rolling into the prairies with 2 does tags and happily filling them is what is killing the deer. Been there, lived there, seen it. Nothing more nothing less. Been going on since long before you heard the acronym CWD.
Moose are another story. Bios just plain trying to get rid of the term "prairie moose" by giving out way to many draw tags

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by wind drift

How many bears / km2 is carrying capacity? Does it ever change or stay the same forever? What’s your estimate of goat population number, by WMU?

Well when the bears start hitting hwy #2 I'm gonna guess the 400's are at carrying capacity and they have nowhere else to go but east. A quick google will give you a fairly accurate number though
My guess at goat #'s are strictly anecdotal, just what I see. Been a while since I worked up around GC, were always scads up there, but sure seeing a lot down in K country the last few years when sheep hunting. Of course in a few conversations with with conservation officers I know why there is no draw in Alberta anymore.

[wind drift]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Every Tom, Dick and Jane rolling into the prairies with 2 does tags and happily filling them is what is killing the deer. Been there, lived there, seen it. Nothing more nothing less. Been going on since long before you heard the acronym CWD.
Moose are another story. Bios just plain trying to get rid of the term "prairie moose" by giving out way to many draw tags

CWD isn’t just an acronym, its a fatal disease. That means it kills deer.

Some Toms, Dicks and Janes have decided it doesn’t make sense anymore to kill a mulie doe only to cut and freeze it and then wait for testing results to find out if the meat will be served at the family table, with maybe 1 out of 2 odds against. Maybe more than some. I know this Dick has, and so have my friends.

[wind drift]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Well when the bears start hitting hwy #2 I'm gonna guess the 400's are at carrying capacity and they have nowhere else to go but east. A quick google will give you a fairly accurate number though
My guess at goat #'s are strictly anecdotal, just what I see. Been a while since I worked up around GC, were always scads up there, but sure seeing a lot down in K country the last few years when sheep hunting. Of course in a few conversations with with conservation officers I know why there is no draw in Alberta anymore.

Please provide the Google link for Alberta grizzly carrying capacity. Thanks!

[SouthWestRanger]

In regards to the question about goats, we haven’t had specific counts in a few years for the whole province but at last count there were many zones with enough goats for a tag or 2, I can think of one zone that they surveyed 50 goats in 2020 or 2018, the fact there isn’t a single tag for that zone is interesting, we have more goats than many US states that have a healthy regulated harvest. As for the G bears, anyone who spends any serious time in the west country is seeing more and more bears I’d wager, saw 10 in September alone last year 4 (momma with triplets) were on my elk gut pile 2 hours after we packed the first load of meat out.