Bow Accuracy

Since the thread where this was discussed was locked, I thought I'd respond here as it is a very important point in my mind. Everyone seems so hung up on the fact that crossbows are easier than vertical bows to become accurate with. Tell me again why this is a bad thing? Isn't harvesting game humanely what hunting is about?

In a perfect world all vertical bow hunters would practice a sufficient amount of time to be proficient with their bows but many don't. This isn't a shot against bow hunters in general as many are excellent shooters but a large amount don't practice enough and consistenly wound animals.

The reason harvest stats are the same for crossbows and vertical bows is that it is the skill of the hunter that is paramount. You need to get close and I'd personally like to see the "occasional bowhunter" with a weapon in his hands that he's capable of delivering a kill shot with. When the stats everywhere in North America say that harvest success rates are the same with the two bows, why don't we arm those bow hunters that aren't willing to put the practice time in with their vertical bows with a bow that can deliver a kill shot with less practice??????????????????????????? It would seem to me that it would portray hunters...and especially bowhunters in a better light. Bowhunters wound a lot of game and it's because a large number don't put in sufficient time with their weapon at the range.

Again, this was not a shot at bowhunters that do put the time in but even they have to admit there are a lot of bowhunters in the field that ethically shouldn't be there.

i couldnt agree more ,every point you made ,thats exactly the way it should be .
its about fair chase and ethical killing ,less suffering and better skill developement which is our responsibility whatever weapon we choose and if you cant master it ,give them something they can master if its legal.

The reason I started up that other thread that got locked is because I was trying to change the focus of the discussion. I don't think it is so important to get into weather a cross bow is a big advantage over a vertical bow. To me that is not the question (as I tryed to state in the other thread.

Is a vert. bow less efficient and harder to hunt succesfully than a modern centerfire rifle? I think we will all say yes and so there is a valid reason to have a special early "archery season"

Is a cross bow less efficient THAN A CENTERFIRE RIFLE? I think we can all say yes. (forget about comparing it to a vert bow) So perhaps a crossbow has a valid reason (just like the vert bow does) to have a special early season. And rather than its own season, why not lump it in with the special early "archery season? Not because it is as or nearly as "primative as a vert bow but because it is a long way from a modern centerfire rifle.

If one says "No a cross bow does not deserve a special early season" then maybe we should look at if a vert bow deserves a special early season.

Now I hope people will understand my point of view and not respond to this with arguments comparing cross bows to vert bows.

Robin

On the other hand,the crossbow supporters are asking that the regulations be changed to allow weapons that they can be more efficient with.

I've never talked to a crossbow proponent that wanted crossbows included in the archery season because they are more efficient than vertical bows because they are not more efficient. They want them included because that is their weapon of choice and as Duffy stated, that's where they belong performance wise. They have the same efficiency and effectiveness as a vertical bow.

I have to agree that some people that bowhunt are not competent with their bows due to a lack of practise.In that case,I do agree that the crossbow could result in less wounded animals.However,I just can't help feeling that many people would be using a crossbow just because it is easier to master.In other words,the lazy way to extend their hunting season.I have always seen the bow season as a chance to hunt for those people that are dedicated enough to learn to shoot a bow competently,so using a crossbow somehow doesn't seem right to me.Then again,that is just my opinion.

I have always seen the bow season as a chance to hunt for those people that are dedicated enough to learn to shoot a bow competently

I wish that were so PB...but I think there are a large number of weekend bowhunters out there that do a great disservice to those serious bowhunters. Crossbowsb offer an ethical option because you aren't going to stop them from heading afield.

"I just can't help feeling that many people would be using a crossbow just because it is easier to master.In other words,the lazy way to extend their hunting season."

Isn't this what the majority of firearms guys do also? The majority choose the most effective possible firearm they can. Its usually a modern centerfire bolt action with scope...not a muzzleloader or a lever gun with iron sights. Lazy bast_rds! :lol

Unfortunately the bowhunters don't have the option to choose the most effective tool(shortest learning curve/least amount of practice) that is available...the dang thing is lumped in with the guns for some strange reason:rolleyes .

Think of the learning curve of a crossbow similar to a scoped bolt action centerfire like a compound bow learning curve equivelant to a lever action with iron sights....i wouldn't even say a muzzleloader...that would be more like a traditional bow imo. So why can't the bow season have its shortest learning curve tool???? There's no reason it shouldn't be there...none.

B

Isn't this what the majority of firearms guys do also? The majority choose the most effective possible firearm they can. Its usually a modern centerfire bolt action with scope...not a muzzleloader or a lever gun with iron sights. Lazy bast_rds!

The difference is that the firearm hunters are choosing weapons that comply with the existing regulations.On the other hand,the crossbow supporters are asking that the regulations be changed to allow weapons that they can be more efficient with.

I've never talked to a crossbow proponent that wanted crossbows included in the archery season because they are more efficient than vertical bows because they are not more efficient. They want them included because that is their weapon of choice and as Duffy stated, that's where they belong performance wise. They have the same efficiency and effectiveness as a vertical bow.

I did not mean that the crossbow is more efficient.What I meant is that since crossbows are easier to become proficient with and require less practise to remain proficient with,many hunters will be more efficient with a crossbow.

Having read this and the other threads for some time now I can see both sides have valid points. From my viewpoint the only difference is that with a crossbow you do not have to hold the string at full draw. This will allow you to become more proficient because you do not have to worry about an ancor point being the same from shot to shot. I think crossbows do have their place in our hunting society, just where I do not know. I haven't formed an opinion on that. I do see that the main reason, in my opinion, for people against crossbows being allowed in the archery season is the fact you do not have to draw andhold the string By their definition if you don't have to draw and hold the string then its not a bow.

And rather than its own season, why not lump it in with the special early "archery season? Not because it is as or nearly as "primative as a vert bow but because it is a long way from a modern centerfire rifle.

So I suppose according to this logic we should lump modern centerfire rifles in with muzzleloaders and have them able to be used during MZ only seasons? I mean, there not that different, right?

im going out on a limb here and havent hunted alot with muzz but a bit ,and the range for muzz is far less but fair to a centre fire rifle, within the 100 yard range plus a bit.

a crosssbow is similar to a compound with range ,so why not have a powder and a non powder season, sounds fair and reasonable.
although you have an option to use the non powder weapon in powder season also .

im going out on a limb here and havent hunted alot with muzz but a bit ,and the range for muzz is far less but fair to a centre fire rifle, within the 100 yard range plus a bit.

Actually modern muzzleloaders can be accurate to ranges far in excess of 100 yards.Most are very capable at 200 yards and there are people that have written about making consistant kills out to 300 yards.

Tj there are lazy people in every sport so that excuse doesn't work.What about people that aren't willing to put in the time with a rifle, should we give them M16's so that they can deliver a kill shot with less practice.Accuracy by volume I think they call it.:eek

And these slob's that don't want to practise should be taken out of the sport not given more hunting opportunity's.



I shoot thousands of arrows a summer so that I am confident I can make a killing shot and so i can take advantage of this season set aside for Bowhunter's.So i don't feel it is fair that someone can throw a few bolts and they are ready to extend there hunting season.

I think there are many die hard Crossbow Hunter's out there and i think they should have there own season.It is just my opinion that it shoudn't be during archery season.

I think everyone has good points in this discussion and this is just my 2 cents.

"United we stand, divided we fall", I've been hanging in the shadows on this debate and this seems to be the general direction here. Bows take more dedication, crossbows take less skill, Gol dang, it's still hunting ain't it? I know if crossbows were legalized for the archery season or given their own I'd probably buy one and use it. Would I sell my compound? No. I enjoy hunting with a variety of weapons during the season. Same reason I'll practice and stalk the woods with my M94 Win. instead of sit on a field/cutline with my .300winmag. I just don't see why there is all this fuss between bow/x-bows, other than the need to argue.
Just my view from here. I'm going back to the shadows now.

ruger300

There are some very good points in this thread but I agree with Brown Bear. There are far to many lazy hunters that don't practice nearly enough with there chosen weapon. I personally shoot my bow every week multiple times and never hunt with my centerfire unless it has been shot at the range to ensure it is on.

But there are hunters that sight in there guns 10 - 15 years ago and seem to think they are still sighted in and there are guys that come in and buy bows and shoot for 10 minutes and then call themselves proficient bow hunters. It will be the same for muzzle loaders and cross bow hunters.

The weapon is a tool and only as good as the person using it. IMO there are far to many tools in the woods without the skill to properly use the weapon that they are carrying.

My question to you Sheep hunter do you think more animals are lost due to poor shot or due to poor hunting skills?
I believe inexperience(weekend) archery hunters take poor shots (quatering, trying to punch it thru bush, etc....) which leads to the majority of the lost game. On top of that these hunters have not mastered the tracking ability that is needed to track arrowed game in early fall.
So would giving a more accurate weapon to people not willing to practise and understand the weapon lead to more recovered animals? The weekend hunters as we are calling them would have all the same issues, just more of them.

Using my self as an example I know of my experiences and my hunting partners and know that long days/night were due to poor tracking, poor tracking conditions, mystery poping up sticks!, etc....

On a side note, it would be interesting to actually know what the difference in recovered game is between the classes of weapons. Archery gets a bad rep but mainly due to the fact that a bow hunter knows at 20-30 yards he hits the animal. Most rifle guys don't at longer distances.
There was work done at a military base in the states that actually interviewed every hunter that came into the base. Both archery and rifle hunters and intustive aerial surveys after the seasons.
The results were actually quite surprising. I will look for that article and post later.

I think my comments have been a bit construed. I never suggested arming poor vertical bow hunters with crossbows and I've never said that guys should give up their vertical bows for crossbows. It just seems there are so many people harping on the fact that crossbows have less of a learning curve than vertical bows as if it were a bad thing. I see it as nothing but a good thing as I'm a big supporter of ethical hunting. That's all folks.

As for all the speculation as to what shots you could and couldn't make shed...I'd be happy to let you shoot my bow any time. I know you'd change your mind about what great advantages they offer. I've never heard that comment out of the mouth of a person that has shot both bows extensively. Truthfully, for my style of hunting and likely yours, the vertical bow would offer many more advantages in getting the shot made. I would never give up my vrertical bow if crossbows were legalized in archery season. It just has too many advantages over the crossbow on many hunts.

I will would take up any offer to hunt with a crossbow (rifle season of crse!!!) like I said in a previous post shot them at the range but not hunting. I am sure they are not as easy as one assumes.
I might be convinced on this topic but not until I have tried in the field.

Sorry to single you on out on this topic (sheep). My comments were more of general interest of shot placement. I am very interested when bow hunters can't find game if it is bad shooting or just bad tracking. Just wanted to know what others thought.
I don't think any primitive weapon (crossbow, muzzleloader, compound bow) are beginer weapons. Too much to go wrong and tracking skills are needed.

I think it's a combination of taking poor shots and poor accuracy and undoubtedly some inexperience following a blood trail. The crossbow can't compensate for any of those. It just does take a bit less time to become proficient with but contrary to what's been stated here, they do require practice as well....more than a rifle in my opinion.

Tj, if you are offering the X bow trial to all AO members then I will gladly say yes.

I think the first test to make sure they don't have any advantages would have to be the harvest of a full curl Alberta Bighorn.:eek :eek

I can't do an honest test at an Archery Lane.

Better get that rumour book out and find a Honey Hole.:rollin :rollin

I think the first test to make sure they don't have any advantages would have to be the harvest of a full curl Alberta Bighorn.

If you're willing to pack a crossbow on a sheep hunt I'll gladly take you. Personally, I'll take the compound!