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  #1  
Old 08-11-2017, 06:53 AM
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Default New Authorization for Trapline Cabins/Buildings

Have any trappers on been made aware of the new 2017 Trappers Cabin Specifications Document and associated Trapline Cabin application forms for all proposed or existing structures? Very detailed document which states that existing cabin structures which do not meet the new specifications will not be grandfathered (as the old Cabin Policy stated). Just found out about this document and associated application forms. Email from F&W office states:

Senior trappers can now apply for a TFA (temporary field authorization) for new or existing cabins that would be for the same term as their initial.

Here’s the application form and information I send out to any senior trapper who is seeking permission to build a trap line cabin or get a TFA for an existing cabin.

• The completed trap line cabin application (TLC-A) and cabin sketch form (TLC-B) can be returned to the Fish and Wildlife office when completed.
• The Temporary Field Authorization (TFA) is for the same term as the initial. So if your 5 year initial meeting was this year the TFA would be issued for the same 5 year term. If your initial was last year and you had 4 years until your next initial, the TFA would be issued for the remaining time.
• In order to issue a TFA for the cabin, they will need a client ID. The application for Client ID attached as well.
• The completed Client ID form can be emailed, mailed or faxed to the address at the top of the application form.
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  #2  
Old 08-11-2017, 07:07 AM
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Here is the document.
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Old 08-11-2017, 09:19 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
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Uke, appears to be much more administration now around our cabins. More work than getting a new home built. Boy I am glad the ****ters do not have a deck on them and less than 18 sq ft.
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Old 08-11-2017, 09:41 AM
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Here are both the application and the site plan forms.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf TLC(A) - Trap Line Cabin Application Form.pdf (41.3 KB, 60 views)
File Type: pdf TLC(B) - Cabin Sketch Form.pdf (43.3 KB, 84 views)
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  #5  
Old 08-11-2017, 09:48 AM
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Here is the Client ID Form
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Client ID.pdf (13.6 KB, 51 views)
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  #6  
Old 08-11-2017, 10:53 AM
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Few things i noticed are if you plan on cutting a tree down or increasing any footprint you will not be able to get your license for a cabin spot. If you are non compliant in anything they will just send you a bill for the removal of anything. Also looks like they are shutting down trapline adventures as well and don't want anyone making money doing that from what i understand. Sound like they are continuing to shut down trapping in Alberta still.
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Old 08-17-2017, 10:10 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
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We used 8 foot 2x4s for deck because cheap and would provide lots of space for trapping boxes and other equipment storage. Do we have to take chainsaw and cut in half now. I will probably fall off deck when I come out at 3;00AM for required radiator drain.
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Old 08-17-2017, 01:51 PM
calgarychef calgarychef is offline
 
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Trap line adventures is a great way to introduce others to the realities of the big woods.
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Old 08-18-2017, 09:07 PM
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So what does this mean for existing cabins ?
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  #10  
Old 08-19-2017, 08:28 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
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Existing cabins need to be brought into compliance is the way I understand the new document, so get out the chain saw.
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  #11  
Old 08-31-2017, 10:54 AM
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I just did my 5 year review and renewal and they never said anything about this. This is going to get interesting....
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  #12  
Old 09-05-2017, 07:55 AM
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Was told that the ATA knew about the new policy prior to it's release and yet they haven't said a word about it to it's members! What is the point to having the ATA in place if they don't feel it's their responsibility to bring important information such as this, which affects all RFMA holders in Alberta, to it's members affected by this new legislation? For some reason I though they were suppose to act as our liaison with the GOA on trapping related issues. As usual, they are working in silence on their own agendas and keeping us trappers in the dark.
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  #13  
Old 09-11-2017, 09:15 AM
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Default Cabin Document

This was discussed at length By Dave Kay and the ATA board at the AGM. This document was rough drafted in 2006!!!!!!!! There has been no discussion on it since. It was brought back out to be used in the cabin rebuilds in the Ft. Mac area as a guideline only. Some Bios took it upon themselves to incorporate the document in their areas....this is not an approved document, this has no weight and is not recognized Provincially. Use it to start fires at the cabin for now. There WILL be something coming out, but not until final consultations with all parties involved, and a pass through the commons. As discussed, all cabins built prior will be grandfathered.

Spruce
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  #14  
Old 09-11-2017, 10:13 AM
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Thanks a lot to the guys that were able to make the AGM and provide accurate info! I hope to make it to our Local meeting this saturday and hear more.
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  #15  
Old 09-11-2017, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Spruce View Post
This was discussed at length By Dave Kay and the ATA board at the AGM. This document was rough drafted in 2006!!!!!!!! There has been no discussion on it since. It was brought back out to be used in the cabin rebuilds in the Ft. Mac area as a guideline only. Some Bios took it upon themselves to incorporate the document in their areas....this is not an approved document, this has no weight and is not recognized Provincially. Use it to start fires at the cabin for now. There WILL be something coming out, but not until final consultations with all parties involved, and a pass through the commons. As discussed, all cabins built prior will be grandfathered.

Spruce
Isn't it amazing the BS that can get spread around about something like this? It is so good to talk right to the folks involved rather than getting people are riled up over rumors.
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  #16  
Old 09-12-2017, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by 209x50 View Post
Isn't it amazing the BS that can get spread around about something like this? It is so good to talk right to the folks involved rather than getting people are riled up over rumors.
Seems that 90% of the information brought up on here is false or a partial truth. Oh well, this one can be put to bed for now.
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  #17  
Old 09-12-2017, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Spruce View Post
Seems that 90% of the information brought up on here is false or a partial truth. Oh well, this one can be put to bed for now.
Except on this issue the Bios rolled it out as an official document, it wasn't until challenged at a higher level that all the further information came forward.
So it wasn't false or partial to those that were presented with the new "policy", it was simply pushed to the back burner once confronted.

If you remember just last year we had this exact same issue with the transfer process. Once pressed it all changed, but only because people fought back and voiced their distaste. If nothing was said that policy would definitely be in place right now.
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Old 09-12-2017, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torkdiesel View Post
Except on this issue the Bios rolled it out as an official document, it wasn't until challenged at a higher level that all the further information came forward.
So it wasn't false or partial to those that were presented with the new "policy", it was simply pushed to the back burner once confronted.

If you remember just last year we had this exact same issue with the transfer process. Once pressed it all changed, but only because people fought back and voiced their distaste. If nothing was said that policy would definitely be in place right now.
Don't get yipping on here confused with the issue getting dealt with. There was no such thing and some very hard working volunteers got slagged over an issue they had already dealt with.
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by 209x50 View Post
Don't get yipping on here confused with the issue getting dealt with. There was no such thing and some very hard working volunteers got slagged over an issue they had already dealt with.
You're going to have to be a little more clear Rich.

"There was no such thing"

Are you saying the new cabin policy that was sent out by some of the Bio's was a fake ?

Or are you saying the new interim transfer process rolled out last year was a fake ?
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Old 09-12-2017, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torkdiesel View Post
You're going to have to be a little more clear Rich.

"There was no such thing"

Are you saying the new cabin policy that was sent out by some of the Bio's was a fake ?

Or are you saying the new interim transfer process rolled out last year was a fake ?
Yes.
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  #21  
Old 09-13-2017, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torkdiesel View Post
You're going to have to be a little more clear Rich.

"There was no such thing"

Are you saying the new cabin policy that was sent out by some of the Bio's was a fake ?

Or are you saying the new interim transfer process rolled out last year was a fake ?
Tork,

Think of one of your employees telling clients that they can only shoot moose that are under 50" (without your knowledge). They influence other guides that work for you to do the same. Before you realize it your a guide service that shoot only bulls under 50"....you would obviously fire the lot and right the ship....When a Bio does this (twice now), being a government employee They cannot be touched. Both the cabin policy (this year) and the Relinquishment policy (last year) came from the same Bio in the lower Athabasca region without any formal government review or meetings with stakeholders (both illegal). Neither document holds weight any longer because of this. All fact.

Spruce
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  #22  
Old 09-13-2017, 09:47 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
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Spuce some good clarification, however the Bio,s are not responsible for cabin policy, it is usually handled by forestry personnel under PILAR. We now deal with three different government departments as trappers. ( F&W in Solicitor Gen, Bio's in AEP and Forestry in PILAR)
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  #23  
Old 09-13-2017, 11:27 AM
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The way I read it Tork was pointing out that some bios may have misunderstood or over stepped and the ATA board (and perhaps others) stepped in to challenge what some had said and to start a dialog that actually involves trappers. What I'm trying to say is I think Tork's comment was a positive recognition of some of the hard work the volunteer board has done.
Attending the AGM really is the best way to know what is happening.
Work together towards a common goal.
My 2 bits.
Doug
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  #24  
Old 09-18-2017, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Spruce View Post
Tork,

Think of one of your employees telling clients that they can only shoot moose that are under 50" (without your knowledge). They influence other guides that work for you to do the same. Before you realize it your a guide service that shoot only bulls under 50"....you would obviously fire the lot and right the ship....When a Bio does this (twice now), being a government employee They cannot be touched. Both the cabin policy (this year) and the Relinquishment policy (last year) came from the same Bio in the lower Athabasca region without any formal government review or meetings with stakeholders (both illegal). Neither document holds weight any longer because of this. All fact.

Spruce
Interesting, and thanks for the clarification Spruce

I was still under the impression that the Bio's as a whole including supervisors had rolled out both these policies, or where at least on board with forestry backing the cabin policy.

It is interesting that if one Bio came up with the relinquishment policy that others jumped on board so quickly without any actual formal approval. With the applications for the widows line in RMH and my own transfer delays in Grande Prairie they fully believed that was the new law. Even to the point where when they finally did allow the transfer they gave me a summarized "riot act" about how there would likely be a new policy by March 31,2018 and to expect my new line to never be worth anything because they would decide who got it next time.
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  #25  
Old 09-18-2017, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dugh View Post
The way I read it Tork was pointing out that some bios may have misunderstood or over stepped and the ATA board (and perhaps others) stepped in to challenge what some had said and to start a dialog that actually involves trappers. What I'm trying to say is I think Tork's comment was a positive recognition of some of the hard work the volunteer board has done.
Attending the AGM really is the best way to know what is happening.
Work together towards a common goal.
My 2 bits.
Doug
Exactly dugh, this lit a spark under many people. It brought to light some of the backdoor intentions of some government workers and it rallied a voice between the ATA and other trappers.
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  #26  
Old 09-19-2017, 07:15 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
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Guys, do not doubt for a minute new changes are coming to Trapline Transfers, Fur reports, Cabin policy etc. Our ATA executive did a good job of backing off the overzealous Bios. However a F & W Officer, Local Bio and Public Lands/Forestry officer under PLAR will decide who gets or keeps a RFMA in the future. Their will be some tweaking of the released GOA documents but they will become the new modes operenda in the future. New World Trapline Order is coming!
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