So.... Are vaccinations safe..?

[Artist]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

If people don't want to get their kids vaccinated that's cool by me. That child though is a Canadian citizen and if in the event the child gets sick, the parents should be criminally charged with endangering their child. If that child that does not get vaccinated infect a person who has been vaccinated (it happens vaccinations are not 100%) they should be criminally, and financially responsible as well. I also have a big issue with the Medicare costs of treating a person who or their parents have chose not to vaccinate and they end up getting sick.

...fair enough. I'd take it a step further. In the even that a child get's sick, becomes debilitated, or dies from complications from a vaccine, (it happens vaccinations are not 100%), both the vaccine company and anyone who forced that vaccine upon the child [or upon the parents] should be criminally charged with endangering the child (or with murder in the event of a death). They should be held financially responsible as well. I have a big issue with Medicare NOT treating those who ended up sick from a vaccination, not to mention the fact that such cases are generally held 'hush-hush' while any discovery of a non-vaccinated child makes National headlines.

[ganderblaster]

Originally Posted by Matt L.

Seriously?

My point is mass media hysteria over a disease that took less lives then crosswalks in Canada. A serious disease yes. But lots of money to be made when only one company has the formula for vaccine. I'm not saying ita a conspiracy but more un biased science would be huge. There are plenty of side effects to most vaccines. Takes the nurse quite a while to explain them all. Some are extreme. Vaccines have a place no question, but vaccines also can kill and maim babies. Some people don't seem to understand it is a risk both ways. And pointing fingers and calling everyone who chooses not to vaccinate stupid and careless and all the other things brought up in this thread will not improve the situation at all. Most people who choose not to vaccinate do not take the decision lightly. There are known and proven side effects and extreme ones. Either way it's a roll of the dice the future remains uncertain. But to the pro vaccinate crowd calling everyone stupid and careless who doesn't follow your line of thinking is rather shortsighted.

[Coho911]

Interesting that the FDA has released this PDF about a common Vaccine:

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Biologi.../UCM101580.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H42db8KI8qQ
(Link in video description)

[Foot Stomper]

This topic is ridiculous! Of course they should be vaccinated!
Water and vaccinations are the two most requested assitance in third world countries...besides, your un vaccinated kid is carrying the bugs around to others...moronic!!

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by Artist

...fair enough. I'd take it a step further. In the even that a child get's sick, becomes debilitated, or dies from complications from a vaccine, (it happens vaccinations are not 100%), both the vaccine company and anyone who forced that vaccine upon the child [or upon the parents] should be criminally charged with endangering the child (or with murder in the event of a death). They should be held financially responsible as well. I have a big issue with Medicare NOT treating those who ended up sick from a vaccination, not to mention the fact that such cases are generally held 'hush-hush' while any discovery of a non-vaccinated child makes National headlines.

Touche', and good point.

[nick0danger]

I like this video on it,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfdZTZQvuCo

[chasingtail]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

it probably has nothing to do with north america being the most obese region in the world

The difference between Obesity rates among other countries isn't that much. Could be all the GMO, preservatives, round-up in our foods or fluoride in our water.

[Astrocyte]

Originally Posted by FlyTheory

I agree with you.
Moreover people don't realize the reality behind vaccines, you're being injected with just a dead "shell". People say they get sick after recieving a vaccine and blame it on the vaccine.. Maybe it's due to people who are already infected exposing the virus to others at the clinic. Something to think about on such a controversial subject (which is shouldn't be).

Correct. The "empty shell" is an inactive virus, it does not hold the capacity to infect. It is there for immune response. That being antibody proliferation. This takes time to develop though, flu vaccine for example can take about 2 weeks to really start working.

In that time one is free to be sneezed on by snotty kid Joe/Jane and catch influenza HxNx. Same applies to prior to the vaccine, very easy to pick it up ahead of time and have it incubate before the mean ol' flu shot "gives you the flu". Then there is the issue of Dr. Web MD.com giving similar symptoms to an illness entirely separate from the flu itself such as Rhinovirus. Not to mention the knee-jerk "it does not work!" response of some when a common side effect of the flu vaccine like a sore arm or fever appears.

Some individuals simply cannot get the vaccinations though. And they do need to hope that others around them are not sick enough to spread infections.

[Newview01]

When the government starts forcing people to inject chemicals, we have what is called tyranny.

Vaccinations should be a personal choice. There are whistleblowers who worked at pharmaceutical companies that shed a new light on the poisons that are in some vaccines. I shouldn't be forced to inject this in myself or my kids.

While I am not 100% against all vaccinations, the amount of vaccines available, and the injection regimen that is recommended for newborns is absurd and unsafe.

This has also been mentioned, but why do pro-vaccinators care about the un-vaccinated? Don't the vaccines work?

[fish_e_o]

So I feel I need to explain this. Even if your body has the antibodies it needs to identify a problem if your immune system is comprised you can still very easily catch that disease.

Even if it's some insanely preventable thing

[plmnnkoqaz]

The autism thing really drives me crazy. The research that showed the link was not only debunked, but the doctor who published the study in the UK lost his medical license because he produced the study in order to 'provide' evidence for a court case against a drug company. He was nearly charged criminally and lost his medical license once the truth came to light.

The reason we have more people diagnosed with autism is that the diagnostic criteria have been changed over the last few decades. In fact the last DSM change (the manual that Doctors use to diagnose) they removed a condition called Asbergers (mild autism) and made those people part of the autism spectrum. Now we by definition have more people with autism.

50 or 60 years ago when society had very rigid social rules, Autistic people would have been able to fit in much easier. They might have been weird or an odd duck, but rules make it easy for autistic people to fit in. Today we give them a 'disease'.

[Johnny Huntnfish]

From an article today.....yes its infowars but it doesn't mean it isn't true. This company listed autism as one of its side effects in their corporate pamphlets.

http://www.infowars.com/autism-repor...-insert-shows/

[ganderblaster]

The seizure thing is my main concern. Coincidence is a big word but the as a family man with a young family and having friends that have young families the tales you hear the week following inoculation are hair raising. At least two families we are friends with stopped after the first shots for this reason. Just trying to explain what is going on. Vaccines have there place but at some point a certain level of vaccine per pound of infant is too much.

[Artist]

Originally Posted by plmnnkoqaz

The autism thing really drives me crazy. The research that showed the link was not only debunked, but the doctor who published the study in the UK lost his medical license because he produced the study in order to 'provide' evidence for a court case against a drug company. He was nearly charged criminally and lost his medical license once the truth came to light.

The reason we have more people diagnosed with autism is that the diagnostic criteria have been changed over the last few decades. In fact the last DSM change (the manual that Doctors use to diagnose) they removed a condition called Asbergers (mild autism) and made those people part of the autism spectrum. Now we by definition have more people with autism.

50 or 60 years ago when society had very rigid social rules, Autistic people would have been able to fit in much easier. They might have been weird or an odd duck, but rules make it easy for autistic people to fit in. Today we give them a 'disease'.

"...THE RESEARCH..." is the key phrase in the above quote. I'd rephrase that to say "SOME research". "THE" research suggests "All" research, and such is simply not the case. There are numerous articles and studies on both sides of the "autism/vaccine" debate. At the end of the day, people tend to choose what they want to believe, and label everything else as phony, unscientific, dumb, crazy, or whatever else they choose to call it. And, if we think that the big pharmaceutical and vaccine companies don't promote "the" research that favors their products, and discredit research that doesn't, that's called 'head-in-the-sand' syndrome.

[ganderblaster]

Originally Posted by Artist

"...THE RESEARCH..." is the key phrase in the above quote. I'd rephrase that to say "SOME research". "THE" research suggests "All" research, and such is simply not the case. There are numerous articles and studies on both sides of the "autism/vaccine" debate. At the end of the day, people tend to choose what they want to believe, and label everything else as phony, unscientific, dumb, crazy, or whatever else they choose to call it. And, if we think that the big pharmaceutical and vaccine companies don't promote "the" research that favors their products, and discredit research that doesn't, that's called 'head-in-the-sand' syndrome.

It's way easier to call everyone stupid who brings up that vaccines have side effects then to admit vaccines have side effects is what I have learned from this thread.

[Gammaboy]

My son was born in 2000, the wife had him vaccinated at 18 months because she was told it was time. He screamed for 3 days without sleep, stopped making eye contact and interacting when playing with us or his older brother. Went from a happy giggly child to withdrawn and silent.
I don't care what anyone says something happened with the vaccination. That was the last needle any of my kids got until they turned 14 and we talked about the risks and it was their decision.

[Artist]

Originally Posted by Gammaboy

My son was born in 2000, the wife had him vaccinated at 18 months because she was told it was time. He screamed for 3 days without sleep, stopped making eye contact and interacting when playing with us or his older brother. Went from a happy giggly child to withdrawn and silent.
I don't care what anyone says something happened with the vaccination. That was the last needle any of my kids got until they turned 14 and we talked about the risks and it was their decision.

Wow - that story breaks my heart - and it's a lot more common than vaccine-pushers are willing to admit. It's easy to sit back and criticize parents who choose alternative methods of vaccinating, or who choose not to vaccinate altogether, but when it's your precious boy who's been impacted negatively - that changes everything.
My heart goes out to you.

[bessiedog]

Artist.... I'd be interested in seeing the studies and research that convinced you that there is a danger in vaccinations.

Particularly any research that shows causality to autism....


You appear to be an anti-vaccer... I'm curious


Cause I've actually been digging around da Interweb for some time.... And haven't come up with anything credible.

I assume you have found peer reviewed, journal published stuff.... Cause that's where I've been looking...




I eagerly await your assistance with my search



Gamaboy

I'm sorry if your boy has a condition. I work with kids that have various degrees of autism regularly for 20years now. It's a heavy challenge.

But you are making an annecdotal causal assumption that actually may be putting your kids and others at risk.

Like my daughter.

She's on weekly chemo. She's got no choice. It's chemo or turn into a cripple.
As a consequence... She has a surpressed immune system.

She goes to a public school, and her safety is directly related to the immunization choices of others.

I ask that you choose wisely.

Make informed decisions please. My kids counting on it.

[Artist]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

Artist.... I'd be interested in seeing the studies and research that convinced you that there is a danger in vaccinations.

Particularly any research that shows causality to autism....


You appear to be an anti-vaccer... I'm curious

Just to clarify, I'm not 100% anti-vaccine - I think they have their place, and, there are alternative methods of administering vaccinations so as to not subject a small child to a huge cocktail that their little body simply can't handle. One of those methods is to stretch vaccinations over a longer period of time so as to give the body a better chance to absorb the hit.
As far as studies and research goes, please scroll up and read Gammaboy's post. You have no idea how many times we have encountered and heard of similar cases and frankly, as a parent, I need not see more - the evidence of experience speaks louder than a study on paper. Having said that, I can certainly post some studies/cases here pointing to the dangers of vaccines, but, I'm not sure this thread would survive that, and, those studies/accounts are readily available to anyone who cares to find them.

[bessiedog]

Really.....

Pm me the studies. I dare you.

Your actually telling me parent annecdotals trump science. That's some seriously risky thinking.

I am a parent. Parents gotta make informed decisions, not emotional ones.

Especially when their choices can seriously affect other kids. And that's where I get REAL uppity.

You can raise your kids how u want... But if your choice is uninformed and puts mine at risk... Well..... Not cool.

I'm going to suggest YOU have never found any peer reviewed, journal published studies.

If you have, prove me wrong and I'll apologize to you.

But if you can't my friend.... Then your being dangerous.

[jmedical]

They do what they are meant to do, they dont cause autism or any of that other spoon fed bs. Ive seen the results where people dont get the standard childhood vaccinations and its scary.

Elderly, those immunocompromised or with multiple health problems should also perhaps get the flu shot.

I get my shots every year, my job is dealing with the sick and I dont get sick. The one time I didnt get my flu shot I learned my lesson.

[Cowtown guy]

Originally Posted by Twist

If the neighbourhood kids have their shots the are supposed to be immune right?

The real issue that nobody is bringing up is the newborns. They can not get vaccinated for a certain time frame. Anti vaxers may be carrying things like whooping cough for example. If they are in the ER for it or a Dr's office for a check up along with a new born guess what? That tiny baby now has a very good chance of contracting a potentially life threatening disease.

There is a reason that small pox, polio and a host of other diseases have been all but eliminated. It is because of vaccines. We have all but eradicated these diseases and now because of a couple loudmouthed celebrities that spew rhetoric and not facts, they are slowly making a comeback. And it is the infants that are getting sick. Before they even have a chance. It's ignorant and selfish. It is bunk science at best and outright fraudulent at worst.

And to the people here that say they get a cold after getting a flu shot. Really? It isn't even the same bug. Good gracious they have absolutely zero, nothing nada in common. And just because you get a flu shot doesn't mean you won't get the flu. It means that the likelihood of contracting certain types of flu that can be lethal or damaging to a certain percentage of the population is significantly lowered. There is umpteen different flu viruses every year. The scientists pick the ones that are most likely to affect the already sick, elderly and very young. The make the vaccine with these strains in mind and that is what the flu shot contains. You still may contract influenza. Just not the real bad strains or the ones that can do significant damage to an entire old folks home.

[Artist]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

Really.....

Pm me the studies. I dare you.

Your actually telling me parent annecdotals trump science. That's some seriously risky thinking.

I am a parent. Parents gotta make informed decisions, not emotional ones.

Especially when their choices can seriously affect other kids. And that's where I get REAL uppity.

You can raise your kids how u want... But if your choice is uninformed and puts mine at risk... Well..... Not cool.

I'm going to suggest YOU have never found any peer reviewed, journal published studies.

If you have, prove me wrong and I'll apologize to you.

But if you can't my friend.... Then your being dangerous.

Tell that to Gammaboy, and to his son, and to the many other parents who's kids were simply never the same after the vaccine-cocktails were pumped into them - parents (by the way) who were following what you would call an "informed" choice. Like I said, journals and studies can't undo the reactions that some kids have towards a vaccine, and when that's your kid, you suddenly experience the side of the fence that until then, you were told never existed.

[Cowtown guy]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

Like my daughter.

She's on weekly chemo. She's got no choice. It's chemo or turn into a cripple.
As a consequence... She has a surpressed immune system.

She goes to a public school, and her safety is directly related to the immunization choices of others.

I ask that you choose wisely.

Make informed decisions please. My kids counting on it.

Sorry to hear Bessie. Wish her well for me.
Your case is exactly why I get upset. Some people do not have a chance with this stuff. Your daughter and the very young are prime examples. Hell my 63 year old Uncle has chemo every 2 weeks. He can't see his grandkids because of all the germs kids are around in school. What about the senior homes? The havoc a bug can wreak in there can be devastating.
The anti's can inject a simple little bug into a place where it can do a ton of damage to someone like your daughter. All because they chose to believe Jenny McCarthy. Who, by the way, even says she was wrong to jump on that train after doing a bunch more actual research on the subject.
I think it is selfish.

[bessiedog]

Originally Posted by Artist

Tell that to Gammaboy, and to his son, and to the many other parents who's kids were simply never the same after the vaccine-cocktails were pumped into them - parents (by the way) who were following what you would call an "informed" choice. Like I said, journals and studies can't undo the reactions that some kids have towards a vaccine, and when that's your kid, you suddenly experience the side of the fence that until then, you were told never existed.

You won't show me research.

Your using annecdotals to prop up and further defend your position.

You do know that we live in the 21st century.......

In order to find truth...... Our best bet is science.

Show me the link. Point me to convincing scientific evidence and I'll agree with you.




I am extremely saddened and dissapointed with your response.

If my next statement gets me sent to banned camp then so be it. It's springtime.

Based on your opinion expressed here I must say you are a very dangerous-reckless person. I'm ****ed off even more because you got no skin in the game... Yet you espouse fraud facts.

I'm done for the night night..... I hope Archer is on.....

[HunterDave]

In my 27 years of service I think that I've been innoculated with every vaccine known to man. I've never, ever heard of anyone ever developing any complication more than a sore arm or butt from where they were injected with the needle. Ignorance is bliss and you can't teach a Heinz pickle nothing.

[Artist]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

You won't show me research.

Your using annecdotals to prop up and further defend your position.

You do know that we live in the 21st century.......

In order to find truth...... Our best bet is science.

Show me the link. Point me to convincing scientific evidence and I'll agree with you.




I am extremely saddened and dissapointed with your response.

If my next statement gets me sent to banned camp then so be it. It's springtime.

Based on your opinion expressed here I must say you are a very dangerous-reckless person.

I'm done for the night night..... I hope Archer is on.....

...and, brushing off Gammaboy's experience as having nothing to do with the vaccination-cocktail is equally anecdotal. Without any scientific facts on his specific case, you're simply using 'assumption' to prop up your case (the assumption that Gammaboy's son's reaction/condition is not in any way linked to the vaccine-cocktail. I too am extremely saddened and disappointed with your response. You seem bent on dismissing any possibility of adverse effects based on having read that "that's not possible". I would argue that to find truth, our best bet is to listen to those who's experiences are demonstrating a different outcome, even if those outcomes don't square with what's "written", and even if those outcomes are mysteriously kept out of mainstream reporting. A bit of truth that I found was when I was 7, and had open-heart surgery. In the bed beside me, was a boy with polio - polio that he had contracted from the vaccine. Call me what you want - that's ok, and my heart goes out to you and your daughter as well. Having serious medical conditions as a child is not fun - I know all about it. Sorry my friend, but the sword of this debate cuts both ways.

[bessiedog]

You silly person
.... Archers not on.... Dammit
I've looked up countless studies... From Oxford to Jama....

They all find NO LINK.

I would assume that the studies that were actually seeking out links WOULD stand a good chance finding them.... Cause a lot of them studied actual people that got actual MMR combo shot.... And they actually had autism.......

They found no link...

But you say they missed a few and that proves your point..? Cause there are stories and people's experiences.....

I'm going to put my faith in science.

And please show me where this evidence is 'kept out of mainstream reporting'

How'd you find out about it.

Your in tinfoil hat land now.

This is now officially too silly for me to continue.

[Artist]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

You silly person
.... Archers not on.... Dammit
I've looked up countless studies... From Oxford to Jama....

They all find NO LINK.

I would assume that the studies that were actually seeking out links WOULD stand a good chance finding them.... Cause a lot of them studied actual people that got actual MMR combo shot.... And they actually had autism.......

They found no link...

But you say they missed a few and that proves your point..? Cause there are stories and people's experiences.....

I'm going to put my faith in science.

And please show me where this evidence is 'kept out of mainstream reporting'

How'd you find out about it.

Your in tinfoil hat land now.

This is now officially too silly for me to continue.

In saying that there can be adverse effects, I'm not pigeon-holing what I'm saying only into the autism topic - frankly, I wasn't even referring so much to that. All I'm saying is that vaccinations can have serious adverse consequences for some children - and to deny that, is, to use your word, "silly". Just last week some good friends of ours had their son vaccinated - his particular reaction was that he was temporarily immobilized and couldn't walk. No, you won't find that in Oxford or Jama, but I can guarantee you, it's what you would've found in our friends house. Calling that silliness, is, well, just silly.

[ganderblaster]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

You silly person
.... Archers not on.... Dammit
I've looked up countless studies... From Oxford to Jama....

They all find NO LINK.

I would assume that the studies that were actually seeking out links WOULD stand a good chance finding them.... Cause a lot of them studied actual people that got actual MMR combo shot.... And they actually had autism.......

They found no link...

But you say they missed a few and that proves your point
..? Cause there are stories and people's experiences.....

I'm going to put my faith in science.

And please show me where this evidence is 'kept out of mainstream reporting'

How'd you find out about it.

Your in tinfoil hat land now.

This is now officially too silly for me to continue.

Some of us have seen with our eyes the side effects. Ask any young parent to give you an honest opinion on how their infant behaved following inoculation. A peer reviewed study is only as good as its peers and the $ financing it. Vaccines are a billion dollar industry so keep digging. Dare to question. Ask young families about their experience following inoculation in 2015-2016. Your mind seems made up already however. My wish is that every child could live a pain free happy childhood and I also believe more science is needed to make that happen not blind faith in vaccines that have a list of proven and sometimes extreme side effects. Where you not given the side effect papers the last time you were inoculated?