Caliber/Gun Recomendations

I just about got caught up in another caliber discussion/argument.
I'll just say I'll keep using my 25-06 for deer............ and I will never buy a 270

[Vindalbakken]

You are right, speed affects trajectory. Ballistic coefficient greatly affects downrange speed. To compare you would need to compare similar shaped bullets. The best I found on the Federal premium site was a 100 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip to a 130 gr. Sierra Boat Tail. The lighter, faster 25-06 round was 2.3" flatter at 500 yards. I do believe though that the Nosler is a slightly more efficient bullet.

[Vindalbakken]

Nice edit 700TI.

My post above is a reply to the now edited post.

I would not discount buying a 25-06 even though I own a 270. Nice, flat shooting antelope cartridge that will work for most folks on most deer.

[Jamie]

OK. I have read everyones opinion and done a bit of research into Ballistics.

It seems the 270 WSM might fit what I want. (also a Clip would be a GREAT thing)

Anyone have anything negative to say about this choice?
What manufacture would you recommend?

Thanks
Jamie

[theduke]

Tikka

[Jamie]

Boy Oh Boy..
Am I misreading something, or is the 7MM Mag about the same as a 270 WSM?
What would be the difference....

Getting late and I am confused all up

Jamie

[Vindalbakken]

It was late and I went to bed instead of replying, but that is the question I had for you - Why the 270 WSM over the 7MM Mag? Especially when you wanted something with commonly available ammunition. There is a slight edge to the 270 WSM - 90 ft. lbs. and 2.5" of trajectory at 500 yards - only enough to make a difference on paper. Not enough to worry about in the field.

[Cordur]

There have been a lot of thoughts about the 270WSM vs 300WM when you are using lighter rounds. The BC of the 270WSM in a round like the TSX means that it will outperform a 300WM using 165gr vs 130gr in the 270WSM. The 300WM lost by 200fps and gained 200fp of energy over the 130gr when using a 180gr pill. However it wasn't as flat and had noticeably more wind drift. However this is only true if you aren't reloading. The 300WM will be capable of much more if you want to pack the powder behind it. Only saying this because you compared the 7mmMag to the 300WM

The few things that can be said confidently about the 270wsm are these. It is recommended to have a 24" barrel to achieve the velocity potential that is stated in the ballistics charts. With a round like a TSX it still has enough velocity to expand properly at 300-350 yards. Most thoughts say that you won't want anything more than a 130gr or anything less if using a TSX as you will still get enough penetration for anything in North America, usually a pass through. If you already have a 270Win there isn't much reason to buy it in a short mag unless you just really have to get one. Under 200 yards I haven't seen a real difference between using a 270 or a 270wsm. The trajectories are too close to notice a difference at that range and the results on impact didn't vary much either. Like was said you only really notice it if you start taking the longer shots.

I think if I were going to buy something to do antelope hunting I'd go for one extreme or the other depending on how much practice I could get in. I'd either get something heavy and slow and practice lots using a reticle that allowed for easy range adjustment. I think that meat damage might be kept to a minimum this way. Or I'd get something quick and light that was very flat with a decent BC like the nosler ballistic tips. I know these could cause havoc with meat damage but for the range they are designed for I think they'd be reliable enough. Plus you won't have to worry as much about them dropping 48" before impact.

Oh one question. I thought that the 257Roberts AI/Weatherby compared somewhat with the 264WM? Just that the 257 didn't cause so much throat erosion since the shoulders and neck were better designed? I've come close to buying a rebarreled 264 several times but now would just as soon get a 257.

Forgot to add Hornady doesn't load for the short mags yet. Wish they would as I think they are producing some fine loads.

[Vindalbakken]

I have a 257 Roberts and have considered getting the AI on it. I felt this would let me match 25-06 ballistics with it, not 264 WM. The 257 Weatherby would be closer to the 264, but that is a step above the other two.

BTW, I agree with you on the rest of it. Under 200 yards buy the cartridge you think looks pretty because they will all perform admirably. Bullet selection becomes just as important as calibre selection - a good bullet in a 270 Win can outperform ballistically a poor choice in 270 WSM.

[russ]

Originally Posted by 700TI

I just about got caught up in another caliber discussion/argument.
I'll just say I'll keep using my 25-06 for deer............ and I will never buy a 270

And I will never buy a 25/06

I am not discounting the .270. It's just that I have a 30-06 also. I don't think I need to fill the gap between 25 and 30.

[Vindalbakken]

Originally Posted by 700TI

I am not discounting the .270. It's just that I have a 30-06 also. I don't think I need to fill the gap between 25 and 30.

I agree, that would be pointless unless you wanted to collect guns for the sake of having them.

[j m]

I was thinking a Really nice Deer/Antelope gun. I don't hunt yotes for profit and sheep is a dream at this point
What caliber and make would everyone recommend.
I was thinking the new model 70 winchester, but not sure on the "new" gun thing. I like a bit of a track record.

I would look at the 260 or 6.5 x 55. Would also work down the road if/when your sheep hunt happens . But I don''t think either are available in a lever action . Lots of makers in NA for the 260, more options from europe in the 6.5 ( CZ makes a nice little Mannlicher ).

[Huntnut]

elkhunter

I like your kind of thinking.

[bagwan]

Jamie, Now you've got me thinking, too. Whatever you end up with, get the lightest best fitting gun That you think Willy can shoot as he gets older. As I said at your camp this fall my Sako is now relegated To second fiddle and I carry the T3 270 because of the weight difference. As you get older weight makes a heck of a difference. I still do quite a few hikes, both Elk and deer where this means better success. Willy should be a big boy and prob could handle a 270 but the 25-06 is a gooder as well. Then theres the Swede, then the and then. Oh hell, have fun. Its your choice.

[Prdtrgttr]

Don't you have to be from Saskatchewan to love the 25-06? Seems everyone I've talked to about this caliber and rants and raves about it, is from that beautiful province. I think the reason so many guys like it, is because of low recoil, and the accuracy that comes with not flinching.
Here's some interesting reading about the 25-06

http://www.reloadbench.com/cart.html

"However, a comparison of factory ballistics and a little chronographing can be most informative. Comparing factory data, we see that as a varmint cartridge both the 6mm Remington and 270 Winchester beat anything the 25-06 can offer in every category that matters. Amazingly, in spite of its much smaller case, the 6mm Remington 100 grain load is only marginally behind the 25-06 120 grain load in retained energy at a long range. There really isn't any comparison between hunting loads of the 25-06 and the 270 Winchester. Chronographing results suggest that factory data is equally representative of what each can realistically do. So just exactly what does the 25-06 offer? Evidently something, because many laud the 25-06 as among the best."

[Ice Fishing Maniac]

My recommendations is a 270WSM with 140gr Accubonds. Great caliber/bullet combo for deer, antelope, moose, elk.

A Tikka T3 LS model or Sako Greywolf model 75/85 would be a good choice in my books.

I have 2 of the T3 LS in 270WSM (wife's and mine). I would of got a Sako Greywolf but they were another year away to be available compared to the Tikka T3 LS when I got them.

You are sadly missing one of the short mags James...I'd say you need a 270WSM. A .22-250 would hurt either and I think a .375H&H would round out the collection. But man, my 7STW has been good to me this year...ya, that's what you need!

Jamie You have a 300 rum and like the idea than kev and i also have one and shells are avaiable from us.Why not look at a 280 rem.You have shot mine and said you like it.Also we would both have shells to lend if needed.Just my opinion........................................... Grampa Jim (oh ya your dad)hahahhaha

[LongDraw]

I say go for something that is fun to shoot, wide array of bullet weights, and will not loosen your teeth when you shoot it (you already have one of those)
7mm-08 is the caliber. I shoot a 7mm-08 and this season it has killed a ram and a whitetail buck, all with the 140 grain TSX, a great bullet.

As far as the WSM craze, it is just another magnum cartridge and you have one of the best, just happens to be on a long action. To get the advertised velocities out of the WSM's they are loaded HOT, lots of guys get mucho pressure signs with factory ammo. If however you do decide on a WSM, stick with the 270 WSM, same ballistics as the 270 Weatherby on a short action.

Am I misreading something, or is the 7MM Mag about the same as a 270 WSM?
What would be the difference....

The 7mm remmag offers virtually identical performance,but with a much larger selection of factory loads,and the availability of heavier bullets.

Ya but it's not new!!!! Or short....lol

Just doesn't have the same ring to it!!!
"270 Winchester Short Magnum" now doesn't that just sound fast shooting

[Andrzej]

Jamie
http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_battery.htm

There is lots of info on this site...check it out...

My advise would be 243 Winchester ... that is what my boys were shooting growing up ...

Andrew

[Donny Bear]

Originally Posted by stubblejumper

The 25-06 would be a great addition to your gun collection.

Ah tis true the 25-06 will do!

[AB2506]

Jamie, You NEED a predator rifle. Get a 22-250, 204, or 243. If you want something larger, get a 25-06. Great cartridge for antelope and deer.

[ABDUKNUT]

Originally Posted by Rockymtnx

Any reason why a 22 or 25 would be obsolete in your opinion?

The .243 can do anything a .223 or .22-250 can, and then a ton more.

It'll kill big game (in the right hands).

It's the perfect cartridge for practice... IMHO it is 'the' cartrige for mastering the shooting skills.

What it can't do, is buck and bang like the most over-rated cartridge of the century, the .25-06

.

[AB2506]

Originally Posted by ABDUKNUT

What it can't do, is buck and bang like the most over-rated cartridge of the century, the .25-06

Consider the 243 a 13 year old boy and the 25-06 an adult man at the peak of his prime. What I mean by this, is the 243 is a 300 yd deer rifle and the 25-06 is easily a 400 yd deer rifle. I don't call that over rated. Check out any reloading manuals ballistics charts.

If you want a coyote rifle that can double as a deer rifle, in limited circumstances, choose a 243. If you want a deer rifle that can double as a coyote rifle occasionally, choose the 25-06.

[heybert]

Jamie,
If you ever want to try a 25-06, let me know. I have a Steyr Mannlicher Prohunter. It's a sweet shooting gun.