Shop Supplies??!!

[Hunter65]

There's nothing I cannot stand more than looking at my shop repair bill and seeing 10% tacked on for shop supplies. What the hell am I paying $100+/hr for??
Shop supplies my ass. Money grab is more like it.

Short rant over.

[Clgy_Dave2.0]

I dunno...makes sense to me. Sometimes they do work that requires very little shop supplies. Other jobs require all kinds of misc supplies. I'd rather pay the basic hourly rate for their labour, and any extra required supplies, rather than a rate that would cover both. Because then I'm paying more for those jobs that don't have a lot of supplies.

[sako1]

Every nut,bolt,cotter pin,splash of weasel pizz,shot of brakeclean,half pump of gear oil or the occasional top up of brake fluid is your shop supplies.You want me to bill you for those parts individually?? You would be crying a lot more than you are now.It is a minor % of the bill,why should I have to pay for it?

[Hunter65]

Originally Posted by sako1

Every nut,bolt,cotter pin,splash of weasel pizz,shot of brakeclean,half pump of gear oil or the occasional top up of brake fluid is your shop supplies.You want me to bill you for those parts individually?? You would be crying a lot more than you are now.It is a minor % of the bill,why should I have to pay for it?

So why does an out of province inspection need $15 in shop supplies? And why can't they just hide it in the bill?

When I was doing carpentry work, I sure as hell didn't charge for every nail, screw, chalk for the chalkline, utility knife blades, etc., it was built into the estimate or hourly rate.

Its a money grab.

[Clgy_Dave2.0]

Originally Posted by Hunter65

When I was doing carpentry work, I sure as hell didn't charge for every nail, screw, chalk for the chalkline, utility knife blades, etc., it was built into the estimate or hourly rate.

Its a money grab.

So if you spent 8 hours hanging doors, you would charge the same rate as if you spent 8 hours laying sub-flooring that requried $150 worth of staples and $50 worth of glue?

[zero]

Originally Posted by Calgary Dave

So if you spent 8 hours hanging doors, you would charge the same rate as if you spent 8 hours laying sub-flooring that requried $150 worth of staples and $50 worth of glue?

its included in the estimate, you dont put every single price on the paper, wrap it up into one nice simple rate, when you start adding on 10% for this 20 for that it looks alot more unprofessional. the more you write the more it gets ripped apart

[Dewey Cox]

Maybe one day unicef will get into the automotive repair business. Until then, the mechanics are the guys to talk to.

[sako1]

Originally Posted by Hunter65

So why does an out of province inspection need $15 in shop supplies? And why can't they just hide it in the bill?

When I was doing carpentry work, I sure as hell didn't charge for every nail, screw, chalk for the chalkline, utility knife blades, etc., it was built into the estimate or hourly rate.

Its a money grab.

Out of province inspections require a fairly in depth checkover of the vehicle.Numerous catagories include fluid level checks.Do you know for a fact gear oil,engine oil,brakefluid,coolant or your atf didnt need a little attention?Does your vehicle have any kind of drum brakes including your e-brake?If you do they would have come apart and possibly sprayed down with brake clean before going back together.
Great you do carpentry.I do automotive repair.Im guessing the average tools a carpenter needs wouldnt even update 1 of my 5 scanners for the year.There is a reason shops cant be giving stuff away for free.

[Clgy_Dave2.0]

Originally Posted by zero

its included in the estimate, you dont put every single price on the paper, wrap it up into one nice simple rate, when you start adding on 10% for this 20 for that it looks alot more unprofessional. the more you write the more it gets ripped apart

the OP wasn't talking about a "contract price". He was talking about hourly rates including supplies. If he charges himself out hourly, some jobs will require more "shop supplies" than others.
Anyways...it's kind of a moot point. It's like complaining about the cost of labour in general. Expensive. And in other news, the sky is blue.

[Hunter65]

Originally Posted by Calgary Dave

So if you spent 8 hours hanging doors, you would charge the same rate as if you spent 8 hours laying sub-flooring that requried $150 worth of staples and $50 worth of glue?

Labor is labor and parts are parts. I consider staples and glue to be parts because they are particular to that work. I would not get paid for driver bits and utility blades for hanging doors.

Shop supplies is a recent charge that garages charge for. By recent I mean ?10 years? I can recall not seeing that on my repair bill in the not too distant past.

BTW I am not a mechanic so I have no clue what I'm talking about when it comes to shop supplies. All I can see is WD-40 and rags. If they indicated what they were on the bill I might feel better about it (maybe). Seems to me that charging for shop supplies has become a standard in the industry. One shop started it, now they all do it.

[sako1]

Originally Posted by Hunter65

Labor is labor and parts are parts. I consider staples and glue to be parts because they are particular to that work. I would not get paid for driver bits and utility blades for hanging doors.

Shop supplies is a recent charge that garages charge for. By recent I mean ?10 years? I can recall not seeing that on my repair bill in the not too distant past.

BTW I am not a mechanic so I have no clue what I'm talking about when it comes to shop supplies. All I can see is WD-40 and rags. If they indicated what they were on the bill I might feel better about it (maybe). Seems to me that charging for shop supplies has become a standard in the industry. One shop started it, now they all do it.

I do understand why it is hard to grasp,but you hit the nail on the head...WD-40 and rags...probably what the general public thinks is our major expenses.

[Grizzly Adams]

One of those little things that really irritates people, like all the extra charges on your power bill. Very poor public relations on their part. A certain amount are a given, in any job and should be included in the quoted cost. I don't want to hear about the cost of the rag you use to wipe your nose, while checking the oil.

Grizz

[petew]

Next thing law offices will add this too to cover the cost of toilet paper.

[harrydude]

Well let's break it down a little...

Shop supply's include rags,brake clean,penetrating oil,he odd nuts and bolts....
And not the things you do not think of.... The to brooms sweep the floor the guy to do it..the front counter person...there is a lot of costs .... And what about the computer look up information systems ... And when you break the hr rate down here is not much left.. Lites and the power to raise your car up is not free it has to be paid

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by sako1

Every nut,bolt,cotter pin,splash of weasel pizz,shot of brakeclean,half pump of gear oil or the occasional top up of brake fluid is your shop supplies.You want me to bill you for those parts individually?? You would be crying a lot more than you are now.It is a minor % of the bill,why should I have to pay for it?

Because you already charged for it in the inflated hourly rate.

[bradleyk]

Originally Posted by FCLightning

Because you already charged for it in the inflated hourly rate.

X2

[varmit9]

Originally Posted by Hunter65

There's nothing I cannot stand more than looking at my shop repair bill and seeing 10% tacked on for shop supplies. What the hell am I paying $100+/hr for??
Shop supplies my ass. Money grab is more like it.

Short rant over.

well lets breakdown the cost a shop today. this would be for a 4 bay shop.

diagnostic scanner 8 to 10 thousand per scanner, usually needs updated replacement in 5 years add another 3000 for test adapters, another $3000 if they do flash reprogramming plus subscriptions to software sites, plus 3600 a year in updates

repair information site like alldata, mitchel, or identifix average cost $250 each a month, tech training 500 a month depending on course schedule

wheel alignment system an easy $25000. a/c system $6000 fluid maintenance equipment $10000,initial cost paid off monthly

that does not include utilities, lease, insurance costs, payroll

an average 4 bay shop cost an average of $30,000 a month to operate before they see a profit. so that's what they try and pay out of that $100 an hr. shop supplies can cost up to $1000 dollars or more a month

so whats your costs? to run your company????????

[slivers86]

I can totally see where you are coming from. Had a hydraulic hose go boom on my vehicle last month, shop supplies were on the bill. Along with the hydraulic fluid, clamps and the hose itself. What the hell else do ya need down there boys, KFC?

--

On the other hand,

After looking at a few friends who are doing reno's, you may always encounter problems that are very very minor, that need to be repaired (costing under 5$)...

if you are loyal to your shop, they might chip this in for free, and that might be where your 5% for all them years goes to... I got a free allignment not too long ago, which at the time financially, I greatly appreciated

[slivers86]

Also - what does the average mechanic make per hour? Apprentice - 5th year?

[varmit9]

Originally Posted by slivers86

Also - what does the average mechanic make per hour? Apprentice - 5th year?

average journeyman 28 to 30 , dealerships around 35 t0 40

what does a computer tech or programer make???

what alot of people don't know is 65% of work done on cars today is diagnostic work dealing with computer and sensor fault issues which can take 3 to 4 hours to trace down and solve. its not as simple as plug in the scanner read the code replace part code says is faulty,

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by varmit9

well lets breakdown the cost a shop today. this would be for a 4 bay shop.

diagnostic scanner 8 to 10 thousand per scanner, usually needs updated replacement in 5 years add another 3000 for test adapters, another $3000 if they do flash reprogramming plus subscriptions to software sites, plus 3600 a year in updates

repair information site like alldata, mitchel, or identifix average cost $250 each a month, tech training 500 a month depending on course schedule

wheel alignment system an easy $25000. a/c system $6000 fluid maintenance equipment $10000,initial cost paid off monthly

that does not include utilities, lease, insurance costs, payroll

an average 4 bay shop cost an average of $30,000 a month to operate before they see a profit. so that's what they try and pay out of that $100 an hr. shop supplies can cost up to $1000 dollars or more a month

so whats your costs? to run your company????????

No one denies there are costs over and above paying the mechanic (I didn't see front office staff and parts person in your list), but sundry miscellaneous materials simply are a part of operating cost and when tacked on to the already calculated "shop labor" rate it simply stinks of double billing.

[slivers86]

Originally Posted by varmit9

average journeyman 28 to 30 , dealerships around 35 t0 40

what does a computer tech or programer make???

what alot of people don't know is 65% of work done on cars today is diagnostic work dealing with computer and sensor fault issues which can take 3 to 4 hours to trace down and solve. its not as simple as plug in the scanner read the code replace part code says is faulty,

totally. Its simple when the code it spits is an easy one... but when its something electrical it can take forever to track down! I remember bits and pieces of 3 years of mechanics

[varmit9]

why is it everyone criticizes repair shops $100 hr rate yet never say anything when a lawyer charges $375 hr. tech have just as much knowledge in the automotive field as a lawyer does in the legal system????

[varmit9]

Originally Posted by slivers86

totally. Its simple when the code it spits is an easy one... but when its something electrical it can take forever to track down! I remember bits and pieces of 3 years of mechanics

that's the problem it is NOT as simple as read the code and repair!!!
for example code p0171 system lean or p0140 o2 sensor bank 1 sensor 2 low activity. replace 02 sensor code comes back guess it wasn't the sensor huh that's what the code said to replace oh well it only cost the guy $350
to replace or do i know to check for a vacuum leak or bad connection first??

[marlin1]

my shop supply po was 100k last year and that is supplies alone . Most people have no idea what it costs to run a repair shop

[FCLightning]

No one criticized the $100 rate, just the double dipping.
By the way, you needed to add owner profit into your list of "costs" as well.

[slivers86]

Originally Posted by varmit9

that's the problem it is NOT as simple as read the code and repair!!!
for example code p0171 system lean or p0140 o2 sensor bank 1 sensor 2 low activity. replace 02 sensor code comes back guess it wasn't the sensor huh that's what the code said to replace oh well it only cost the guy $350
to replace or do i know to check for a vacuum leak or bad connection first??

all the ones i've done from my buddies computer were easy...
can't remember the code, but there were to do with my thermostat, and ABS sensors. They were cut n dry imo, mind you, not really complicated either.

What you have referenced are definitely more labour intensive at getting to the bottom line of things

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by varmit9

why is it everyone criticizes repair shops $100 hr rate yet never say anything when a lawyer charges $375 hr. tech have just as much knowledge in the automotive field as a lawyer does in the legal system????

Cause in the end consumer gets raped for everything. For you, it's the cost of doing business, for the customer - it's the end bill, the cost of you doing business... For us, it's just another cost in life.


I'm an IT consultant and I don't come cheap - but I do come honest. I'm just another cost of doing business cause they need and rely on their computer and network systems more and more. When they go down, it costs them more money in downtime than what I charge, and it can cost alot.


I could have an office, brand new car, best of everything and charge the customer even more - but that's not me. As it is, my car is a 2004, my laptop is 7 years old... Of course there's overhead to any business, but many times you can opt in or out of those costs. How many "nice to have" items do you have in your shop?

I can have $1000's in diagnostic equipment to test servers when they go down, fortunately i've been doing this long enough (20 years) to know the foot bone is connected to the hip bone and it's broken somewhere.

Originally Posted by varmit9

that's the problem it is NOT as simple as read the code and repair!!!
for example code p0171 system lean or p0140 o2 sensor bank 1 sensor 2 low activity. replace 02 sensor code comes back guess it wasn't the sensor huh that's what the code said to replace oh well it only cost the guy $350
to replace or do i know to check for a vacuum leak or bad connection first??

And that's where alot of the problem lay, I know too many mechanics that rely too heavily on the tools and not enough on their brains. You just said it best, why not check for a vaccuum leak first cause that's what experience says. Replace an O2 sensor that's not faulty but still charge for it anyway.

I wish I had the ability to charge for all the times i'm wrong. Replace a high end server power supply when it really is the motherboard? I don't leave the power supply in the system and charge them for it when theirs isn't faulty.

[Zip]

Originally Posted by varmit9

why is it everyone criticizes repair shops $100 hr rate yet never say anything when a lawyer charges $375 hr. tech have just as much knowledge in the automotive field as a lawyer does in the legal system????

Oh don't go kidding yourself here varmit9...everybody is upset at what lawyers chatge...i hear it all the time! People hate the thought of that darsn retainer fee those lawyers charge...people also complain about all those add on fees on their electric bill..phone bill...etc. Most people complain about any fees which they cant fully understand....this thread could go way deeper than just shop supplies...it costs alot to live these days,for everybody!!

[keeks]

I can deal with, and understand shop supplies. But this doesn't cover supplies, it makes you money. Double dip for sure.

The one that revs me is the "book rate." It too one hour to do the 3 hour job. Charge out 3 hours, cuz that's what the book says. It took 7 hours to do the 3 hour job, bill out 7 hours cuz that's what it took to get er done. Can't have it both ways.