gas prices

[Ken07AOVette]

The price per litre, or level of greed per city / town is directly proportionate to how scummy the Company is that is running it. None of them are in business to give us free fuel, they are in it to make Billions. Not millions, Billions. Big B. And they do.

There are numbers supporting this on wikipedia if you want to look

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

The price per litre, or level of greed per city / town is directly proportionate to how scummy the Company is that is running it. None of them are in business to give us free fuel, they are in it to make Billions. Not millions, Billions. Big B. And they do.

There are numbers supporting this on wikipedia if you want to look

I am truly hoping you can provide facts versus innuendo when disparaging companies. Name the scummy company and the yahoo finance link to back up your comment.

Remember profit is proportional to size. McDonalds made $22 billion revenue and $10 billion profits. A mom and pop shop hopefully a few hundred thousand. A 10% profit margin will have a proportionate number of zeros in it as a result.

A reference of size of profit missing the discussion on the market cap of the company doesn't do justice to an interesting debate.

My earlier post above showed profit margin. Which of the three oil companies noted have unfair profits in your opinion? Is there another?

[Ken07AOVette]

Honestly I don't care at all about having to prove anything to you.
You go ahead and keep ranting.
Have fun.

[jstubbs]

I always wonder about companies like Imperial and Suncor who own their own entire supply chain in Alberta. When you’re the upstream extractor, the midstream refiner and the downstream retailer, what’s it really costing them per L of gasoline? Your thoroughputs into the refinery come at whatever cost your extraction price is, which is less than a barrel of WTI here in Alberta. I wouldn’t be shocked if for them, a L of gasoline costs them $0.10.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by pgavey

I was in Medicine hat a couple of weeks ago and noticed gas at 1.20 per liter.
Back there again yesterday 1.16 at the Husky Filled up in Taber at 1.20
My question is why are we paying 131. in Pincher Creek and the pass?

Because you pay for the view.....

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by jstubbs

I always wonder about companies like Imperial and Suncor who own their own entire supply chain in Alberta. When you’re the upstream extractor, the midstream refiner and the downstream retailer, what’s it really costing them per L of gasoline? Your thoroughputs into the refinery come at whatever cost your extraction price is, which is less than a barrel of WTI here in Alberta. I wouldn’t be shocked if for them, a L of gasoline costs them $0.10.

As an integrated major I posted their financials.

Even though they produce and refine for them they buy oil on the market and likely on spot pricing. Their exploration, production and transportation costs remain the same as other producers.

It is an expensive game to play. Hence their profit margin is so low even with stronger oil prices. When prices rise so does the cost of services, taxes etc.

[slough shark]

Biggest problem I have with gas prices being so high is we haven’t seen the corresponding jump in wages or employment that we have other times the price has gotten high. It’s been a lot easier to swallow when you’re getting raises and finding work is easy but this time I look around and see myself and many people I know working outside our fields if working at all. Employment has been a fair bit harder to come as I’ve ever seen it, a lot more short term gigs over steady work.

[jstubbs]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

As an integrated major I posted their financials.

Even though they produce and refine for them they buy oil on the market and likely on spot pricing. Their exploration, production and transportation costs remain the same as other producers.

It is an expensive game to play. Hence their profit margin is so low even with stronger oil prices. When prices rise so does the cost of services, taxes etc.

The question I have regarding fully integrated producers is how does their opportunity cost factor into their accounting to create those financial statements? When it comes to a fully integrated value chain, you're refining your own feedstock rather than selling it elsewhere, do they take into account the opportunity cost of selling that crude on the rack, creating a technically artificial loss?

Additionally, in a non-integrated value chain with different corporations at each stage of the stream, there's a lot of hands in the cookie jar with each earning their cut of profit. Are they charging themselves the costs involved in a non-integrated value chain? Sure their upstream, midstream and downstream costs are the same, but when it's all the same company doing that there aren't the "middle man" costs involved unless they charge themselves.

I don't work in the oil industry nor am I an accountant but this sort of things interest me. I don't deny that oil companies should be earning their share (although whataboutism regarding profits of corporations in entirely separate industries comes across in poor taste) and you seem to have a great handle on all of this.

[wildbill]

........Just wait till minimum wage goes up to 15$/hr........

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Honestly I don't care at all about having to prove anything to you.
You go ahead and keep ranting.
Have fun.

Sundance provides facts and figures...you come up with "American owned Mexican waters oil rig off line for a couple hours, we need to cover the slack with $98,762,334,123.42 in downtime costs"
Only one person ranting here.

[dodger]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

Sundance provides facts and figures...you come up with "American owned Mexican waters oil rig off line for a couple hours, we need to cover the slack with $98,762,334,123.42 in downtime costs"
Only one person ranting here.

X2

Dodger

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by jstubbs

The question I have regarding fully integrated producers is how does their opportunity cost factor into their accounting to create those financial statements? When it comes to a fully integrated value chain, you're refining your own feedstock rather than selling it elsewhere, do they take into account the opportunity cost of selling that crude on the rack, creating a technically artificial loss?

Additionally, in a non-integrated value chain with different corporations at each stage of the stream, there's a lot of hands in the cookie jar with each earning their cut of profit. Are they charging themselves the costs involved in a non-integrated value chain? Sure their upstream, midstream and downstream costs are the same, but when it's all the same company doing that there aren't the "middle man" costs involved unless they charge themselves.

I don't work in the oil industry nor am I an accountant but this sort of things interest me. I don't deny that oil companies should be earning their share (although whataboutism regarding profits of corporations in entirely separate industries comes across in poor taste) and you seem to have a great handle on all of this.

What do you mean with opportunity cost factor?

In accounting it is a wash if you buy your own oil at market and sell gasoline at market because your internal functional cost centres will cancel out.

For instance. Sell your oil at market to yourself and sell gasoline at market. Versus

Sell your oil cheap and then sell at market. Your exploration functional unit has a loss and your refining makes the difference in chain.

IFRS accounting rules means transparency. Playing games on the books is illegal.

Integrated oil companies role up all functional units into one number. Takes the good with the bad and shows the whole corporate picture.

You can request information if not provided to see what different units contribute.

Most companies however split upstream and downstream business financials. You need to pull their public annual report and review the details.

[bcshadow]

1.51 yesterday in Vancouver.......

[Drewski Canuck]

Happy Thanksgiving long weekend!!!!

Drewski

[bobalong]

Originally Posted by bcshadow

1.51 yesterday in Vancouver.......

Thats not quite enough yet for the pipeline, revenue, job killers.

[Iskra]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

Happy Thanksgiving long weekend!!!!

Drewski

Gas price jumps from 1.19 to 1.32 . Yes long weekend is coming.

[lannie]

Originally Posted by Iskra

Gas price jumps from 1.19 to 1.32 . Yes long weekend is coming.

Thats that opportunity cost factor showing up.... 13 cents worth of Turkey opportunity.

[live2bout]

Long weekend has nothing to do with it. Price has been spiking about 12 - 20 cents every two to three weeks, then slowly drops back a cent or two at a time, then repeat.
Amazing it can go up all at once but only comes down a cent or two a day. No government protecting us from obvious price fixing and collusion.

[DRhunter]

As my old man always said, I spend a lot of money on hunting, fuel and alcohol... the rest of my money I just Pi$$ away!

DR


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ssyd]

Every week it drops on Tuesday/Wednesday then spikes again on Thursday. Every station, every week. I find it impossible to believe there is no collusion. Some weeks worse than others but it's becoming entirely too common to see a $0.13/L increase right before payday.

This isn't a regulated monopoly like the AGLC.

These companies all source their own products yet somehow they always seem to incur the same price spikes in their wholesale price at the same time every week?
Maybe my understanding is wrong here. Maybe there's a monopoly at a higher, international level that controls these supply prices but my understanding is that if these companies have built their own supply chains then they should operate independently from each other. Yet here we are.
If I'm wrong I'd love to learn better, preferably from someone besides Sundance.

[Kim473]

The only way to stop them is by sending a msg to them ! Buy at the lowest place every time you fill or boycott the big players like ESSO , Petrocan and Shell. If they have no customers, they would have to lower the price and keep it low or close the station.

[sillyak]

Originally Posted by jstubbs

I always wonder about companies like Imperial and Suncor who own their own entire supply chain in Alberta. When you’re the upstream extractor, the midstream refiner and the downstream retailer, what’s it really costing them per L of gasoline? Your thoroughputs into the refinery come at whatever cost your extraction price is, which is less than a barrel of WTI here in Alberta. I wouldn’t be shocked if for them, a L of gasoline costs them $0.10.

Imperial has 26.888 Billion in revenue and 1.122 Billion in profits. A bit over 4% profit. I can guarantee you it costs them more than 10 cents to get it to the pump.

High gas prices suck.

Life without private oil companies in Alberta would suck worse.

[Hound]

terrible

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by sillyak

Imperial has 26.888 Billion in revenue and 1.122 Billion in profits. A bit over 4% profit. I can guarantee you it costs them more than 10 cents to get it to the pump.

High gas prices suck.

Life without private oil companies in Alberta would suck worse.

Common sense. Thanks for the post.

[bcshadow]

Going through my old posts and realized that this thread reminds me of ads for houses for sale for $100,000 🤔

$2.17 a liter in Vancouver today......

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Gas Buddy is your friend. In Edmonton there is over 22 cents a litre price difference. That is over $20 a fill. It really does pay to shop around and if you have Costco, it is worth the cost of a membership just on the money you will save on gas. 113.4 here today at Costco, 118.9 next cheapest place and as much as 135.9 at Petrocan. If you want no-ethyl number one $1.26 at Costco, as much as $1.55 at Shell or Esso..

Four years later and this is still exactly the same situation except the price range is now 34 cents a litre on gas and 50 cents a litre on diesel. I still regularly see lots of people filling up at the highest priced outlets. Appears gas price is largely irrelevant to an awful lot of people.

[Big Grey Wolf]

Big Oil is Big Greed these days and main cause of inflation. Fully intergrated oil companies like Shell, Imperial and Suncor have access to the Cheapest Oil in world next to Russia, now that must sell oil at bargin prices. They even have the audacity to price the gas/diesel in US$$ when the pay C$ for wages, royality, equipment etc.
The honest price for gas/diesel today in Canada would be around $1.20/liter, anything above that is pure GREED resulting in those gross excessive profits posted last week.

[Ackleyman]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

Big Oil is Big Greed these days and main cause of inflation. Fully intergrated oil companies like Shell, Imperial and Suncor have access to the Cheapest Oil in world next to Russia, now that must sell oil at bargin prices. They even have the audacity to price the gas/diesel in US$$ when the pay C$ for wages, royality, equipment etc.
The honest price for gas/diesel today in Canada would be around $1.20/liter, anything above that is pure GREED resulting in those gross excessive profits posted last week.

i agree 100% and the thought that Oil Companies must charge more as service costs have gone up........pure BS , most service companies , those that still have their head above water , supply newer , higher tech equipment and spend thousands on never ending safety requirements all for less then they made 10-15 years ago.

[Dean2]

Every time the topic of excessive profits comes up for oil companies, banks et al, I always ask, if you believe they are so profitable why do you not own shares in these companies and benefit from their business success.

Complaining on social media won't change the game, you might as well learn how to take advantage of it. Of course then you have to put up with stocks like Vermillion Oil and Gas going form $50 to $3, and now finally back to about $28. It really isn't as easy as so many make it. No one was lining up advocate for help for Suncor when oil as $8 a barrel a year or so ago or the many years where is was in the 60 range, and the oil companies where hemorrhaging cash. Aa few months of real good results and everyone wants to apply excess profit taxes, regulate their prices etc. You really can't have it both ways. Just look at your electrical bills if you think you can.

[59whiskers]

Oil will not go away for years to come in the real world. However the Liberals and their Green feel good ever increasing Carbon Tax will leave oil resources in the ground while prices for what oil is available will skyrocket. After all in the near future there will only be expensive electric cars that everyone can afford, we will have to do our part for climate change with much less and no choice like the WEF says. I plan to stay invested in energy and mining stocks for the long haul. Canadians voters need to change this problem.