Selecting Various Powders?

[RedZippa]

As a beginner reloader, when a reloading manual shows load testing for a particular bullet with up to seven different powders, how do you choose which powders to work up test loads for? Would you choose three or four readily available powders and then create test loads in 1 gr increments for each?

When firing the test loads (ladder testing), do you only fire one round each of increasing powder charges and then compare the vertical dispersion, or do you need to fire multiple (e.g. three) rounds at each powder charge?

Thanks for your advice.

[kingrat]

Most manuals will show the most accurate powder tested usually will have a star or asterisk beside it, that's usually a good start. I personally look at the fastest ones, then the most available ones, you'll find its mostly a certain few
That are in the top 4-5. re 19,22,25 used to be my go to and favs now 4350,4831, are up there to.

[260 Rem]

My preference will always be with a powder that almost fills the case at max with the heaviest/longest bullet I plan to shoot.

[elkhunter11]

I generally choose a powder or two that I have on hand, that offer good velocity for the bullet weight. I ignore the so called most accurate powder, and the COL, as they were not based on my rifle, and as often as not, they aren't applicable to my rifle. I load up three cartridges at each powder charge for a start, and the powder charge graduations depend on the case capacity. For smaller capacity cases like the 223 rem, I use .5 grain graduations, but for larger capacity cases, I start with one grain graduations. Once I find a promising powder, I may reduce the graduations to .5gr gr for larger cases and .2 gr for small cases. and I go to five shot groups for target or varmint cartridges.

[Nyksta]

Nosler website load data shows graphs of velocity and the % fill for the cartridge for each bullet weight. 99-101% full is nice. Anything less full is not full use of your cartridges potential and the air pocket empty space cause s inconsistent combustion.

The weight of the bullet will change the most appropriate speed of powder because a light bullet would be like sucking water up a straw and a heavy bullet wouldcompare to a milkshake up the same water straw.

Too slow of a powder and you will acheive 100% full case but you wont be going to max power that you could have because the bullet is already gone from the barrel before the powder is all burnt..

Too fast of a powder and you have to go with a less than full charge because a full charge would hit too high of pressures when the bullet is just starting getting moving and there's very little space for all the expansion to go.

The powder with the fastest muzzle velocity listed for each bullet weight is usually the best speed of powder when used in the typical barrel length for that cartridge. The barrel length and twist will be listed. The distance of bullet jump to lands is not listed, and this is where the biggest difference in rifles results in different performance.

[Nyksta]

What cartridge are you loading for and what do you want to do with it. If its for hunting, what animals do you hope to hunt?

[RedZippa]

I am loading Barnes 150 gr TTSX in 7mm Rem Mag. I have been using the Barnes cartridges for a few hunting seasons now (whitetail, mulie) but would like to progress into hand loading. I have kept the brass, purchased primers and Barnes .284 150 gr bullets...but the powder selections listed are daunting!

I will have to investigate the percent casing volume used for select powders (that are readily available) from the Barnes load book.

[skidderman]

If you research lots of books. Most free online, look for the most common powder that is top three in velocity and good case fill, even compressed is fine. Often it will become fairly clear if you put the time in. Beware of online loads that are not published. If you know someone who has quickload get them to run data for you. Take your time. If you get the wrong powder it is generally easy to sell & you will lose little on the purchase price.

[Nyksta]

One thing to note about case capacity and powder lists is that some powders take up more volume per grain than others. One powder might fill the cartridge at 50 grains while another will do it at 46. So a bigger number of grains doesnt necessarily mean it is filling the case better.

[Digger1]

Another factor I've come to consider when selecting powder is temperature stability.

[Salavee]

Check out this method .. http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/

I have used the OCW method for a number of years. It works. Read it, study it, then use it with whatever powders and charge weights you deem suitable to start with.
If you like what you see with that method, I suggest you send Dan the small personal consultation fee and you will be well on your way to a great load development routine.

[gunluvr]

In recent years, availability of certain powders has been a factor in what to choose.
With that said, I have found IMR 4350 to work well in 30-06 family cartridges, and Varget or H4350 to work well in 308 Win family cartridges. I also like Varget in my 250 Sav. and 22-250. Actually, it's surprising how many manuals list Varget for use in a lot of other cartridges, from 223 Rem to 30-06.
Incidentaly, Varget and H 4350 are two of the least temperature sensitive powders made.


I don't have a 7mm RM, but it looks like IMR 4350 is listed in several reloading manuals for it.
If you will be handloading for other cartridges as well, consider powders that may work in more than one of them. If you can find 2 or 3 powders that will cover all your rifles, you'll be less likely to run out of powder to use. Keep as many lbs. of each as you can afford.
Also, if you can find a powder burn rate chart, consider trying different readily available powders for a particular cartridge that have comparable burn rates. The Sierra manual has a burn rate chart.

As well, pay attention to the powders listed in your manuals for light or for heavy bullets, for a particular cartridge. Some cross over, some don't.

[elkhunter11]

For loading the 7mmremmag with 150gr bullets, I would be looking at IMR4350 or 4831, or H4350 or 4831, or IMR7828, or R-22. I usually end up using R-22 with the 7mmremmag, but it can be difficult to locate.

[qwert]

I suggest you Google – (Creighton) Audette ladder test, and read

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2012/0...adder-testing/

http://2poqx8tjzgi65olp24je4x4n.wpen...evelopment.pdf

http://2poqx8tjzgi65olp24je4x4n.wpen...ent-method.pdf

http://www.6mmbr.com/laddertest.html

http://www.longrangehunting.com/foru...estions-42787/

A major benefit of Audette ladder testing is the amount of data that can be obtained with a minimum number of rounds fired.

Creighton Audette suggested loading bullet ‘on the lands’ with charge increments of .5% from min to 3 increments over book max (book ? max often varies widely, use extreme caution) then stop firing at signs of over pressure (do NOT expect to fire all loads). IMHE, .5% often means increments of .25 grain, .2grain seems too small so I often go with .3 grain increments, but this is naturally dependent on case capacity.

Range is often limited by what is available, but IMHE 275 yds is minimum for usable results and longer is better.

I MUCH prefer to fire all rounds over a chronograph, (and is a major reason I do not use a MagnetoSpeed or any chronograph that alters POI).

I fire all rounds at a single POA and carefully note POI. This can be difficult to see at longer ranges while keeping testing in a short time frame with consistent atmospheric conditions. I use a target camera with timed exposure, but a remote viewing screen or good spotting scope can also work.

I record both muzzle velocity and vertical POI, then graph both results hoping for a possible node to be revealed.

I then develop promising nodes using 4-5 shot group testing at 100 yds. (I record both total group size and best group -1)
Promising nodes are further developed using varying seating depth.

Audette POI results will be far more variable from a sporter weight barrel than a heavier varmint or target profile, and illustrate the greater range and variability of harmonic vibrations.

It is vitally important that all shots be taken from a consistent and solid rest/bipod & rear bag, (IMHO, NOT a LeadSled), and with a properly cleaned and fouled bore.

Good Luck, YMMV.

[7mmremmag]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

For loading the 7mmremmag with 150gr bullets, I would be looking at IMR4350 or 4831, or H4350 or 4831, or IMR7828, or R-22. I usually end up using R-22 with the 7mmremmag, but it can be difficult to locate.

Whats your thoughts on temperature stability of RL22?

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by 7mmremmag

Whats your thoughts on temperature stability of RL22?

I have never missed an animal because the burning rate of the powder changed slightly. I sight in at around 0 to average out the temperature variations. I no longer have a 7mmremmag, but I still use R-22 in my 270WSM, and in my 6.5x55, and I use IMR7828 in my 7mmstw, and I don't get too concerned about temperature stability.

[32-40win]

I look thru as many books as possible, and check the reputable online sources that show that weight/style of bullet, in all the common brands. They will usually show a standard group of powders for that cartridge. Ie; you may see the 7mag size cartridges showing powders in the IMR 4350 range up to H1000, which is quite a range of powders, but, usually, only 3 or 4 of them will show consistently across all the different sources, producing the upper portion of the velocity ranges listed for that weight of bullet.
I have found those are the ones to try first, usually. The 7 mag usually likes the slower side of things, the stuff in the H4350 to RE22 zone, which is the slower of the 4350 range to the slowest of the 4831 range. Sometimes it likes slower yet, into the 7828 and H1000, some of that is about bullet weight though.
That gives you a lot of choices, but, with some research, you can narrow that down quite a ways, then see what you can come with for availability.
Read up on it, write it down, you will see a pattern emerge.

Hornady, Sierra and Speer do not put out a lot of online data on their sites, they have some new bullet release data, but not a whole bunch.You can use the Hodgdon, Western, Accurate, Alliant, Norma, VV sites to get the most up to date powder info, Nosler, Barnes, CEB, have a good bit of data on theirs.

[Huntnut]

Originally Posted by RedZippa

As a beginner reloader, when a reloading manual shows load testing for a particular bullet with up to seven different powders, how do you choose which powders to work up test loads for? Would you choose three or four readily available powders and then create test loads in 1 gr increments for each?

When firing the test loads (ladder testing), do you only fire one round each of increasing powder charges and then compare the vertical dispersion, or do you need to fire multiple (e.g. three) rounds at each powder charge?

Thanks for your advice.

What I like to do is I'll look at different bullet manufactures and find a common powder that is used. For example my weatherby's it's common for H1000 or 7828 to be used. For a newbie like yourself try to stick to something like 4350 or 4831. They are quite common powders and work well in a broad range of cartridges.

If you're going with the Barnes I personally would go with either the 140TTSX or the 145 LRX over the 150. Just my preference.

[7mmremmag]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I have never missed an animal because the burning rate of the powder changed slightly. I sight in at around 0 to average out the temperature variations. I no longer have a 7mmremmag, but I still use R-22 in my 270WSM, and in my 6.5x55, and I use IMR7828 in my 7mmstw, and I don't get too concerned about temperature stability.

Right. There is a lot of talk on forums about Reloder powder being very temperature sensative. I was just curious if you noticed it

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by 7mmremmag

Right. There is a lot of talk on forums about Reloder powder being very temperature sensative. I was just curious if you noticed it

I have chronographed several loads in both warm weather and as cold as my chronograph would read with handwarmers around the electronics, and I have seen around 100fps variation with R-22, and close to that with several IMR powders, but it has never cause me any issues while hunting. Some people make way too much of a deal over temperature sensitivity.

[32-40win]

Temp sensitivity is an issue to people shooting bugholes and longer ranges for the most part. Inside of 300 yds you would be highly unlikely to actually notice it in the field, you can make more difference with shooting position or being excited. If you are spooked by it, you can try to stick to the newer powders like reloder 17 & 23 and the new IMR "temp insensitive" powders. You'll have to scrounge a bit for data on them though, still pretty new and not as much stuff out on them yet.. Do some reading on the powder mfgrs websites and decide for yourself on those. Kill zones on big game, are not as fussy as targets and gongs and such.

[Livefree23]

Good bread I too want to start reloading


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[GrandSlam]

I am working on loads for a 7mm RM at the moment. Using 140 TTSX and 160 TSX. Tried RL25 and it shows promise with the 160 but with the difficulty finding Alliant powders I moved to H1000. Will be testing it next with both bullets. I try to pick a powder that is readily available in the desired burning rate. Another one I might try is Hybrid 100v.

[RedZippa]

GrandSlam: is there a reason you went with the 140 TTSX? I couldn't decide whether to go with the 140 TTSX or the 150 TTSX, although the 150 TTSX seems much harder to find.

I really appreciate you sharing your load work up! Thanks.

[GrandSlam]

I found that the 140 and 160 are easier to find than the 150. I also want to try Nosler Accubonds as well.

[freeride]

I spend time Googling my exact rifle type (brand model ect..) and what others found for accurate loads in it. Using those bullets and powder i then take that and compare it to my reloading manuals and I start with safe loads listed and go from there.

Example I found with my latest rifle that almost everyone said Barnes 140 gr with around 40 gr of h4350. So I take that look up in my reloading books and start with the safe loads of the combo and just pay attention around the 40 gr region.

It's the Internet so I always take it with a grain of salt. Besides maybe my scale reads a bit different then theirs.. or some other difference.

[catnthehat]

As it turns out one powder I can use in all my rifles except for my BP guns is Varget .
There may be some that are a tad more efficient or fill the case better or maybe print groups s smidge smaller but in the end I am the biggest variable not the powder I use .
I am primarily a still hunter so even on a 300 yard shot I don't need a gun that will print 1/2 MOA off the bench - I do have to be compentant enough to be able to make the shot with a rifle and that will make the shot however .

Cat

[markg]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

As it turns out one powder I can use in all my rifles except for my BP guns is Varget .
There may be some that are a tad more efficient or fill the case better or maybe print groups s smidge smaller but in the end I am the biggest variable not the powder I use .
I am primarily a still hunter so even on a 300 yard shot I don't need a gun that will print 1/2 MOA off the bench - I do have to be compentant enough to be able to make the shot with a rifle and that will make the shot however .

Cat

If to many people learn the Varget secret then we wont find any in the stores!! Whats the first rule of Varget club? There is no Varget club.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by RedZippa

GrandSlam: is there a reason you went with the 140 TTSX? I couldn't decide whether to go with the 140 TTSX or the 150 TTSX, although the 150 TTSX seems much harder to find.

I really appreciate you sharing your load work up! Thanks.

The 140grTTSX has been moa accurate in every 7mmrem mag and 7mmstw rifle that I have used it in, and it has worked well on all big game species. I always choose the 140gr weight unless the 150gr is more accurate, which has been rhe case in a couple of my 7mm stw rifles with faster twist rates.

[manitou210]

Originally Posted by 7mmremmag

whats your thoughts on temperature stability of rl22?

all reloader powders are double base not good in heat