Hanging time ?

[RBI]

Good morning to all ,

As dealing with the meat is as much a part of the harvest as the squeeze of the trigger , I'm looking to learn/advise on " Hanging Time " .

First off , I/we are still somewhat newbies to hunting ( season 4 ) , this is the year !

Anyway , I/we live in Calgary , but will hunt from our cabin in Sundre.

Assuming my day does well , and I tag out on a WT , and I gut it in the field , I'm going to bring it back to the cabin and hang it in the garage. ( same day ) , and skin it .

How long should it hang before butchering ? What's too short or long of time . ( yes I understand that a lot of this is personal preference ).

Why ? What do you feel is the difference that it makes ? Is it a taste thing , or a tender thing , wife whats to park in the garage thing

I'm assuming the the outside temp makes a difference , ( likely between -5 to -30 ) overnight ( no heat in garage ) .

What if daytime temp is like last year , and its warmer than normal ?

Is it a bad thing for the hanging animal to freeze ? How much thawing to butcher ? If I expect to do it myself , I would assume it would need to be refrozen asap ?

What if I'm expecting to bring it into a butcher shop , can it come in frozen ?
I would assume that a butcher would have a walk-in that in could thaw it out slow and proper ?

For those of you that quarter an animal in the field , do you still hang it ?

How many of you do your own cutting ? How many do part of the cutting and some to the butcher ? And how many go all to the butcher ?

Using a butcher , do you book a place , ( make a reservation sort of speak )

For those of you that hunt pretty much a full days drive ( or a overnight stop ) from home, how do you deal with you animal ?

What about a camp , you tag out on day 1 of 5 ?

What are the major do's and don't's , ( What's the temp have to get up or down to , to be of big concern ) I assume the colder weather is better.

What about you bow hunters that get early season ( warmer temps ) ?

I'm looking for any experience that people have have , and are willing to share .

What about horror ( things gone wrong stories ) , things that should have gone wrong , but surprisingly didn't ( why )

Please and thanks ... RBI & QUANTUMFART ... Bob & Ethan

[rottie]

Originally Posted by RBI

Good morning to all ,

As dealing with the meat is as much a part of the harvest as the squeeze of the trigger , I'm looking to learn/advise on " Hanging Time " .

First off , I/we are still somewhat newbies to hunting ( season 4 ) , this is the year !

Anyway , I/we live in Calgary , but will hunt from our cabin in Sundre.

Assuming my day does well , and I tag out on a WT , and I gut it in the field , I'm going to bring it back to the cabin and hang it in the garage. ( same day ) , and skin it .

How long should it hang before butchering ? What's too short or long of time . ( yes I understand that a lot of this is personal preference ).

Why ? What do you feel is the difference that it makes ? Is it a taste thing , or a tender thing , wife whats to park in the garage thing

I'm assuming the the outside temp makes a difference , ( likely between -5 to -30 ) overnight ( no heat in garage ) .

What if daytime temp is like last year , and its warmer than normal ?

Is it a bad thing for the hanging animal to freeze ? How much thawing to butcher ? If I expect to do it myself , I would assume it would need to be refrozen asap ?

What if I'm expecting to bring it into a butcher shop , can it come in frozen ?
I would assume that a butcher would have a walk-in that in could thaw it out slow and proper ?

For those of you that quarter an animal in the field , do you still hang it ?

How many of you do your own cutting ? How many do part of the cutting and some to the butcher ? And how many go all to the butcher ?

Using a butcher , do you book a place , ( make a reservation sort of speak )

For those of you that hunt pretty much a full days drive ( or a overnight stop ) from home, how do you deal with you animal ?

What about a camp , you tag out on day 1 of 5 ?

What are the major do's and don't's , ( What's the temp have to get up or down to , to be of big concern ) I assume the colder weather is better.

What about you bow hunters that get early season ( warmer temps ) ?

I'm looking for any experience that people have have , and are willing to share .

What about horror ( things gone wrong stories ) , things that should have gone wrong , but surprisingly didn't ( why )

Please and thanks ... RBI & QUANTUMFART ... Bob & Ethan

You will find lots of different advice . based on different experiences given out on this topic.
Here is a good link to some actual research done on hanging times of different game species. Snoop through it, its a good read

http://www.uwyo.edu/foods/educationa...wild-game.html

[kmacisaac]

Bob, I agree with rottie's advice on this one. This question is as loaded as a Ford/Chevy discussion.
I've always found getting the hide off and removing as much of the silver skin as possible to be a good thing. I've always had the animal processed right after without hanging for any period of time. The taste has been great....I'm not sure if it has to do with my method, the location and diet available in the area I typically hunt or if it's all in my head.
Best of luck to you and Ethan this season.

[3blade]

This is almost as bad as the "what caliber" question....

IMO: I do not like the flavor of aged beef, never have. I do not hang my game. Gut immediately or use the gutless method. Meat in game bags. head home, regardless from where. Tenderloins cooked up ASAP with bacon and BBQ sauce. If I get a deer in the morning, I will spend the day butchering it, working from the most tender parts to the least tender. If I get a deer at night, I skin and take the meat off in big chunks ( legs, backstraps, neck, ribs etc) put in game bags in the fridge, and process it the next day. Never had a complaint about the meat, never lost any due to spoilage.

Regarding hanging: it is a VERY precise science. Temp and humidity must be controlled exactly. You do lose the outside layer of meat. Because wild game parts are much smaller than beef, they have a much higher surface area to volume ratio, which means you lose a significantly higher percentage of the meat. (IMO this is unacceptable). And, that's if it's done right. Left in a garage with the skin on, it will probably spoil in the thicker parts such as between the shoulders and between the hips. Don't do this. Also, do not let it freeze. If it's really cold, guts out, tenderloins out, close the carcass back up and leave the skin on till you get where your going. Big game are very well insulated and the carcass won't freeze for several hours.

I do not use a butcher. A sharp knife and a vacuum sealer pay for themselves in one carcass.

[Badone20]

With wild game its a matter of preference. There is no real need to "age" wild game in the same manner as domestic stock. Myself I typically hang it no longer than a week.

Get the hide off ASAP is always a good move, you should also cut out any blood shoot or jellied areas you find when you take the hide off as these spots will turn and that is not good.

Never let the sun beat on it if at all possible and most important keep it dry. I have hung moose during the rut for a week in the bush hanging it in evergreen shaded areas with traps draped overtop of the game pole to keep any rain or snow off but still let the wind through to help cool and cure the meat.

Other than that, I have butchered as soon as 3 or 4 days after killing and up to 7 - 8 days after at the most. Just my 2 cents and I'm sure you will hear lots of different opinions. Temp control in the garage is paramount as well. Try and keep it around 3 or 4C with no wild temp swings such as opening the overhead door and allowing warmer air in. No worries today but you don't always have the luxury of these cooler temps earlier in the season.

Good luck and happy hunting!!!

[CritterCommander]

Definitely a loaded topic, should be about as many opinions as Carter has liver pills, LOL.

If you are going to hang your meat, always hide off once you get it home, and at a minimum split down the spine to promote cooling. A sawsall works great for this.

I have processed animals that have hung for 10 days and other animals that hung overnight, primarily due to temperatures first case hanging temps were optimum, second case not so much. Both will be awesome so long as you debone it, remove ALL the silver skin and gristle and keep the hair off it. Also very careful to remove and discard all the blood shot bits and other miscellaneous pieces of crud. Remember who's freezer it's going into, and who's eating it, take your time and enjoy the moment, it all pays off in the end.

[Lefty-Canuck]

What we do,

Gut in field, haul out whole (if possible)
If too hot out skin on the trailer or back of truck
Get home haul up on chain hoists and skin the entire animal
Split the backbone from tail to neck (moose and elk only, deer stay whole)
Count 3 ribs from the back, cut all around
Take the quarters put it in the walk in cooler

Time to hang,
Deer Buck 10-14 days
Deer Doe 7-10 days

Cow moose 10-14 days
Bull moose 14-17 days

Cow elk....same as cow moose
Bull elk....same as bull moose

If timing doesn't work out for cutting things get cut a little bit sooner or a little bit later. The key to aging is controlled and consistent and steady temperatures and conditions. You have to gut and cool the animal off as soon as possible after its down. We have never lost an animal or had one that is inedible.

LC

[HoytCRX32]

If you're leaving/hanging game at your cabin in the Sundre area, keep Mr. grizzly in mind. Don't leave blood, skin or bits of fat laying about.

[RBI]

Thanks , some good and interesting advise.

I'm very interested to hear about anything that anybody has to say about all this , but I'm most concerned about the " don'ts " , and the most important parts of the "do's "

The last thing I want to do , is to waste any of the meat , because I wasn't sure about doing or not doing , something the correct way .

It sounds like basically if I get it shot , gutted , skinned , cut , wrapped and in the freezer , in a strait forward matter , I should be good .

Learning more about others ways could be better , but I know that comes with experience .

Again , thanks for all you can offer

[Big Grey Wolf]

If you shoot older bull or buck consider hanging. However as someone has mentioned on smaller animal like deer you will loose a lot of meat if temp and humidity not controlled. Young animal gut and remove skin cool as quick as possible (Within 24 hours) cut up by yourself within day or two. Lot of meat cutters will not trim wild meat properly, need to remove blooded meat, grissel, fat grass leaves dried blood etc. Place meat in plastic bags from grocery store twist then wrap in meat paper will keep for 2 years. Vacuum better but not necessary. Older bull hung for a week need to skin off the dried surface.

[Nyksta]

aged beef is a marketing scam so that the butcher plant can buy in bulk when the price is good and transport the animals fewer times. aged meat is rotten meat. yes the aging process breaks down the connective tissues and the fascia surrounding the meat, so its softer... but the entire animal is breaking down. beef is a big animal, and those tissues breaking down are also bigger. deer is small, and since the chemical make up of the fat is different, the fat turns rancid very fast when exposed to oxygen.

Fresh is best.

aged beef is a scam, aged deer is a disaster. especially if you dont have a controlled condition refrigerator.

[RBI]

Originally Posted by HoytCRX32

If you're leaving/hanging game at your cabin in the Sundre area, keep Mr. grizzly in mind. Don't leave blood, skin or bits of fat laying about.

interesting point . Should the left overs be best bagged and brought back into city and put in the garbage here ( that is allowed , isn't it ? ) , or given the time , should it all go down to the firepit , and burned ?

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Nyksta

aged beef is a marketing scam so that the butcher plant can buy in bulk when the price is good and transport the animals fewer times. aged meat is rotten meat. yes the aging process breaks down the connective tissues and the fascia surrounding the meat, so its softer... but the entire animal is breaking down. beef is a big animal, and those tissues breaking down are also bigger. deer is small, and since the chemical make up of the fat is different, the fat turns rancid very fast when exposed to oxygen.

Fresh is best.

aged beef is a scam, aged deer is a disaster. especially if you dont have a controlled condition refrigerator.

See lots of "opinions" when this question gets asked.

LC

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by kmacisaac

removing as much of the silver skin as possible to be a good thing.

Originally Posted by CritterCommander

remove ALL the silver skin and gristle.

"Silverskin" or fascia does not effect the flavour of the meat. It is composed mainly of collagen, which is basically flavourless.

Removing silverskin does make for an easier eating meat that is only cooked for a short time, that is about it.

On the other end, "silverskin" makes stewed dishes better!

I've seen people get quite anal about removing silverskin when butchering. Not only is this unnecessary, it can be very wasteful.

Originally Posted by Badone20

With wild game its a matter of preference. There is no real need to "age" wild game in the same manner as domestic stock. Myself I typically hang it no longer than a week.

The reasons for aging big game is Exactly the Same as for domestic stock.

It is a myth that "game does not have the same enzymes" as domestic animals.
Likely started by some butcher....


Aging for flavour is one aspect.
Aging for tenderness is another.

At the very least, I would suggest that game be aged for 2-3 days to allow rigour mortis to dissipate. Freshly cut animals may taste fine, but they will be much chewier than an animal that was rested for a few days before butchering.

[mulecrazy]

A lot of it depends on what you intend to process it into. I cannot understand the mentality of hanging for tenderness when you make it all into sausage and pepperoni. Makes absolutely zero sense. All you do is loose meat to drying. Seeing as though you do not have a controlled environment your max hanging time will be dictated by this. I have butchered deer with hanging times from 10 days to 2 hours. I can tell you with absolute certainty, the only for sure difference is you get more meat the shorter you hang. If you plan to keep rib meat, that needs to be cut off within a day or it is already jerky. The best wild meat I have ever had was a 46" bull moose that hung in my garage for 2 days last November. Every roast was fall apart tender. Typically I let my deer hang for 2-3 days.

[WillyOneStyle]

One horror story I read on this forum was a poor guy who had a jerry can overturn on his way home and gasoline spilled on his deer. I never did follow up to see if he lost all or just part of it.

[madball]

In a best case scenario I shoot, field dress, butcher and freeze my animals on the same day. Depending on circumstance and how far from home I am when I shoot the animal it could be the next day or 2 after shooting that the meat is butchered and in the freezer.

I have no science to back this up, but I swear that it ages in the freezer, it just takes longer than hanging (obviously). I usually wait about 6 weeks after freezing to start eating. I've pepsi challenged this against aged meat with numerous people and no one can tell the difference (some just guess correctly!)

It is possible that aging before processing will yield slightly more tender meat, but not enough for me to be concerned and this way I don't have to worry about temperature control or any of that nonsense.

[CritterCommander]

I have been told by an old european butcher that wild game and beef are like night and day when it comes to aging. Beef has an entirely unique enzyme that promotes tendon and tissue mellowing when aged the right amount ( a topic for another day) however, wild game does not have the same enzyme so aging does not have the same effect. What does have an effect on tenderizing wild game may be gravity and the passing of rigor, so my rule is to always allow rigor to pass, then it's game on.... YMMV

*EDIT - silver skin needs to go, some people get carried away I will grant you that but the encasing slime bag on any cut has to go!

[Lefty-Canuck]

Aging Meat & Freezing Meat

AGING - Aging of meat is done for two reasons: First and foremost, it is a tenderization process. Second, it produces flavors that are different from those of fresh meat.

What occurs during aging to make meat more tender? What develops the flavors? - Actually, in a manner of speaking the meat is kind of "digesting itself". You see even though the animal is dead, the cells in the muscle are still alive. They produce enzymes that break down protein as part of a normal body function of "tear down and rebuild". However, when muscle no longer has a blood supply, only the "tear down" part takes place. Enzymes called "cathepsins" break down part of the structural portion of muscle and make it more tender.

The unique flavors of aged meat come from lipid oxidation and protein lysis. What the hell is that? Well, lipid oxidation is actually the fat turning slightly rancid. Yup, rancid. Protein lysis simply means that the molecules are breaking into pieces and the pieces have different flavors than the whole protein....probably more than you wanted to know. This is a little important when we get to the topic of freezing tho'.

There are 2 kinds of aging: Dry aging and wet aging. I don't advocate wet aging for the simple reason that it often promotes the growth of too much bacteria and mold on the surface of the carcass. Considering we are talking about wild game here and it's often not processed under ideal conditions, it's much better and "food-safer" and utilize dry aging. Before I go into how to age meat, let me first explain more about why we age meat and why is sometimes NOT appropriate to age the carcass.

Muscle tissue contains connective tissues. The connective tissue proteins called "collagen" and "elastin" are what actually hold muscles, bones and other organs together in the body. As an animal ages, the molecules of connective tissue protein begin to "cross link". One strand of protein will bind to others nearby. As far as we can tell, this process continues pretty much throughout an animal's life, at least in ruminants. The older the animal, the more cross linking and the more toughness.

Kind of an interesting side note: Cross linking and the development of toughness does not occur at nearly the same levels in swine species. Because pork has more collagen and less elastin, meat from old pigs is only slightly tougher than the meat from young ones.

Here's the point where it may not be appropriate to age wild game - if you do shoot a yearling animal, whether is taken as a cull or shot for camp food, you may want to consider skipping the aging. One upside of not aging the meat is the flavor notes are a bit cleaner. It's your choice either way. (When I get around to typing out notes on meat prep, I'll give you a real simple 4-hour tenderization/hydration method that works every time. This is what I use instead of aging for yearling venison.)

Anyway back to the topic - Most of the animals we take are mature, adult animals. They are also not domestic critters that were bred and selected for over hundreds of generations to end up on our supper table. In point of fact, all the selection that has taken place has favored the fastest, strongest and toughest of them all. The meat will benefit from some degree of tenderization.

Dry aging is simple. There's two basic ways. The most trouble-free way is to get the meat chilled down (to about 35-40F) and get through the first 24 hours so rigor is complete as I spelled out in my first post. Then hold the carcass (still hanging by the hind legs) at that temperature for about 8-9 days. After 8-9 days, you can butcher as normal and cook or freeze the meat.

The faster way to age meat is to simply take the cooler temperature up to 50F and hold for 4-5 days. Again, it still has to be hanging by the hind legs. After 4 or 5 days, you can start butchering. For each 18 degrees F )10 degrees C) that you raise the temperature, you double the rate of chemical reactions. Enzymatic break down of connective tissue is a chemical reaction, so that's why the higher holding temperature ages meat faster.

For a long time in the meat industry, there was a belief that aging could not occur at lower temperatures. This is simply not true. There are numerous studies that have proven that aging tenderization even takes place in the vacuum sealed bags used for packing primal cuts. It just happens more slowly at lower temps.

FREEZING

OK, 2 notes right away about freezing meat:

1. Don't even THINK about freezing meat until the whole carcass has gone through rigor. I think I've spent enough time on the reasons why.

2. No piece of meat was ever improved by freezing. Fresh meat is ALWAYS better. When we freeze meat, the best we can hope for is not to damage it too much.

Here are the things to do get the best results when freezing meat and some of the reasons why:

A. PACKAGE MEAT IN AIR-TIGHT, MOISTURE-PROOF MATERIALS. Exclude air as much as is possible. Why? Even at freezer temperatures, fat can turn rancid. It just happens more slowly. Air is required for "oxidative rancidity", so keeping air out reduces off flavors. Also, believe it or not, water can evaporate off of the meat even at tempertures this low. Moisture proof containers keep water from being lost. The very best containers are the vacuum seal bags.

B. FREEZE AS FAST AS POSSIBLE. Why? The faster meat freezes, the smaller the ice crystals that form inside of the cells. Small crystals usually don't rupture muscle cells. Large crystals do. When you get cells ruptured, you lose way too much "meat juice" upon thawing. This results in dry, tough, chewy meat. As you would guess, piling meat in one spot in the freezer is a bad idea. Spreading it out or putting spacers between layers promotes much faster freezing. The VERY FASTEST freezing occurs when you put packaged pieces one layer thick on cookie sheets and alternate the freezer fill like this: meat layer-cookie sheet-meat layer-cookie sheet. Just make sure that air can circulate

C. THAW SLOWLY. Let a piece of meat thaw in the refrigerator until it is at least 32 F (0 C). If you don't have enough time to do that, use the old paperbag trick that your Mother used for thawing Thanksgiving turkeys. Just thaw the meat as slow as you can. Why? Even though juice comes out of ice-disrupted cells, there is some reabsorbtion by the contractile proteins, it just takes a little time.

D. KEEP IT COLD & DON'T KEEP IN THE FREEZER TOO LONG - The old "rules of thumb" are 6 months for pork and 9 months for meat from any ruminant. This is based on the typical home freezer running at 0 F. If your freezer will hold -20 F, you can hold the meat at least 50% longer than that. HOWEVER, if you aged your meat before freezing it, knock 1/3rd off of these numbers. Why? Because you already started oxidative rancidity of the fat with the aging process.

[Nyksta]

so you described decomposing very long winded... I guess you have your opinion too. glad that people can choose their own. Considering somewhere way back you have mentioned you are a close friend with a butcher, I am not surprised you are advocating for the common butcher practice of aging meat. I still think fresh is better.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Nyksta

so you described decomposing very long winded... I guess you have your opinion too. glad that people can choose their own. Considering somewhere way back you have mentioned you are a close friend with a butcher, I am not surprised you are advocating for the common butcher practice of aging meat. I still think fresh is better.

My Dad is a retired butcher and we cut our own meat....we still hang it like I outlined above if it was a conspiracy to increase cost...do you think we would bother? It's not a conspiracy to increase cost, it's science.

I missed the source line for the info above, I did not do the write up. The information is accepted as common practice for the reasons noted within.

Like I said, I eat my meat...you eat yours as long as we both enjoy it who cares?

LC

[Dr. Phil A]

Hanging time.... till they quit kicking.

[Troutslayer444]

I go by actual trial and error, and not hanging wild meat and cutting it up the day you harvest reduces the wild gamey taste omens oppose to hanging your meat. I do not hang my wild meat at all, it tastes much better I find this way. You will still get some gamey tasting animals, but the major it tastes excellent. Try it out yourself, cut off a piece of meat on the next animal you shoot, and cool it that night. Then decide on your experiment, whether you want to hang it or not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Drewski Canuck]

I have been cutting wild game since age 17, with the first deer taken done by a butcher who was a friend of the family. Now I am 52. Many, many years and many, many animals done.

While all that was said was good advice, a sure sign of enough aging for wild game is that the major blood vessels are breaking down and that the meat when cut is not "floppy". That could be a couple of days or a week depending on the age and the temperature.

Deer are tricky because taking the hide off starts a drying process. They simply do not age well if they are drying out.

What every one is missing is CARE BEFORE CUTTING AFTER HANGING!!!

Mix a gallon of vinegar with 4 gallons of warm water. Get some rags, and start from the top and work to the bottom cleaning all hair, dirt, blood, etc off.

Trim blood shot meat, and anything that looks badly bruise around the bullet entry point. Besides the chance of lead fragments, bone fragments, and blood tainted meat, you will have a lot less risk of spoilage.

Now the fun part. If you have a kid's wading pool, put it under the quarter or carcass you are washing. It will catch all the drippings and you will thank me when cleaning up the floor later. Start at the top, wash and rub downward, and get the quarters clean. The Vinegar will deal with any possible mold or bacteria, and allow a safer handling of the meat.

Wear Nitrile Gloves when washing, your hands will thank you. Usually the rags are pretty gross afterwards, so you may want to toss them.

For whatever reason, the vinegar stops spoilage, keeps flies and bugs away, and generally dissolves the blood very well. I have never found an off taste from the vinegar, and have appreciated the clean quarters for cutting and wrapping.

If you are hanging for a few days and it is warmer out, you may want to wrap the quarters in cheese cloth to keep flies off and help with keeping moisture in.

Otherwise, go to K & K Foodliner in Edmonton. Bernie, Rudy and Kevin did an excellent video a few years back on wild game processing and handling.

By the way, their Moose Garlic Sausage is some of the best you will ever find.

Drewski

[HoytCRX32]

Originally Posted by RBI

interesting point . Should the left overs be best bagged and brought back into city and put in the garbage here ( that is allowed , isn't it ? ) , or given the time , should it all go down to the firepit , and burned ?

Many ways to dispose of scraps, but the main point is try to keep your cabin area clean so you're not surprised by Yogi or he doesn't try to beak in...I will take my animals to the middle of my field and gut them there......always a chance for a coyote or two. I donate my skins to my F&G club. I take my animals to a butcher so other scraps are his problem.

[Big Grey Wolf]

Lefty, you have presented a excellent right up on meat processing, I read a technical paper a few years back on meat tenderization and your points agreed with them. Yes meat will tenderize when frozen but at much slower rate for the guy that asked the question.

[RBI]

Hello to all ,
Today's question(s) is about scent control.

How big of a deal is scent control to everybody ?

First off , please state with an answer whether you bow or rifle hunt .

I assume obviously bow hunters will have a bigger concern about scent control .

Do you start from the beginning , using scent free soap , on your body ?
SF laundry soap , anti-static sheets etc.
Do you keep your clothing and gear bagged or rubbermaid type containers ?
Do you put your clothes in a container with leaves etc?

Is what you consume for breakfast a concern ?
Not change into your hunting clothes until after breakfast ...last thing you do before you actual leave for the days hunt .

Do not put on finale layer of clothing until you get out of your vehicle ?

What about adding scent ?


Do you use any of the sprays , or drops or any of the vast array of products available ?
What works ? What doesn't ?

Do you do some or all of the above , some or all of the time ?

Does weather , the time of the season , time of the day , make a difference ?
Does what your hunting come into play.

Basically , " What does everybody do " ?

Have you every used a product that left zero question in your mind , made a very detectable/measurable difference ? " Oh wow ! I'll be using this stuff from now on " .


What about when it comes time to relieve ones self , obviously if you can avoid it you do ...but sometimes .... if your a tree stander , or ground blinder , do you bring a bottle or something . Quite sure you don't just stand and let her rip

Can just relieving your self into a bottle etc , get you busted ?


Nit: Dam , I just got kicked out of the pool !
Wit: For what
Nit: For peeing in the pool !
Wit: Hell , everybody pees in the pool !
Nit: yeah, but the lifeguard said " Not from the high board they don't !! "


Thanks again Bob & Ethan

edit Dam , I did it again , This was to be a new thread , any chance the mods can fix this ?