Overly dramtic firearm safety?

[hilt134]

Ive been thinking lately and i must say i think we over do firearm saftey. Particualr to anti gunners. Most gun guys i know will go off about safety procedures, locks, safes, acts, prove, and in turn the people they are telling this to tend to assume that guns are so dangerus you need to be this anal to be safe. Im guilty as charged trying to make friemds comfortable that you own guns by telling them about how overly safe you are. Shouldnt we be telling them gun safety is actually very simple and that just about any person can be entirley safe with a gun? Just wondering if im out to lunch here or if others agree? If you do keep it in mind next time you telling someone about firearm safety. Keep it reasonable and down to earth.

[wellpastcold]

One ******* who shoots himself or has a firearm discharge while " cleaning" it makes far more impact on the non shooting public than the other 99.99999% of the folks who do it right. IMHO if we all do our best to educate even one of our non shooting friends, neighbours and relatives that guns are not implicitly dangerous, the harder it will be to have anti's create fear. The skeet club I belonged to many years ago used to have a day set aside a couple times a year to " bring a newbie". A few hours of shooting and hanging out with other shooters really opened a lot of eyes as to how much fun shooting is. It also set positive examples for safe gun handling.

[Groundhogger]

Originally Posted by hilt134

Ive been thinking lately and i must say i think we over do firearm saftey. Particualr to anti gunners. Most gun guys i know will go off about safety procedures, locks, safes, acts, prove, and in turn the people they are telling this to tend to assume that guns are so dangerus you need to be this anal to be safe. Im guilty as charged trying to make friemds comfortable that you own guns by telling them about how overly safe you are. Shouldnt we be telling them gun safety is actually very simple and that just about any person can be entirley safe with a gun? Just wondering if im out to lunch here or if others agree? If you do keep it in mind next time you telling someone about firearm safety. Keep it reasonable and down to earth.

I get the point you're making, and don't disagree 100%...but...I look at people who have never shot or handled guns like a parent teaching their kids "by example". There is certain language/behaviour kids will copy/emulate (often, with negative results) only because a parent was too careless to set a good example. I preach gun safety to any new shooter, and don't hesitate to speak up around experienced shooters if they're doing something dangerous. Not to embarrass, or to be a self-righteous d**k...but to make sure I don't end-up at the victim of someone else's carelessness or stupidity. There is at least one guy I won't hunt with anymore because he refuses to follow even simple, safe gun handling principles. When I'm with like-minded people and we're actively shooting, there is a constant dialogue/back-and-forth when we're changing spots, walking near or behind each other, etc. Making each other aware of where we are, that our guns are clear/actions open, etc. It's repetitive, maybe over-cautious, but everyone is on-board with it and every one has fun, safe time.

So to answer your question? Yes and no. Be careful on your own, but be a picture of safety/correct procedure around new shooters. I believe safe gun handling is ALMOST second nature to most experienced shooters, but I also believe that there is no such thing as a small gun accident. ANY gun accident is one to many, so a 100% perfect gun safety record takes constant effort.

[Newview01]

I agree, but gun safety should be ingrained by habit. Newbies will learn by example.

#1 finger off trigger
#2 always point in a safe direction
#3 always assume it is loaded

These three, followed 100% of the time, should guarantee no accidents.

[Albertacoyotecaller]

Follow the four golden rules and your good in my books whether on the range, at home, or in the store...

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by Albertacoyotecaller

Follow the four golden rules and your good in my books whether on the range, at home, or in the store...

SOOOOO, Get in, sit down , shut up and hold on????

If you stress the mechanical portion of gun safety, storage transport etc. you take the human element out of the equation and make the forearm the tool of death, when in fact regardless of rules and regs the human is the dangerous part of firearms and that is the part that needs direction.

[JWCalgary]

Never too safe imo. Plain fact is guns are dangerous tools if not used properly and people should be cautious learning to and using them. Most firearms deaths are accidents...

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[Nyksta]

A careless person or a crazy person... which one is more dangerous if they have a firearm? Firearms are a powerful and great tool that has advanced us to the top of the food chain, but there is a high level of responsibility required about them.

People need to stop treating firearms like a vicious animal that could break out of control and do damage on its own at any moment. They are a machine that the operator uses. the safe and locks are to keep the firearm tool out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them.

Instead of trying to explain to your friends that you are responsible because you are successfully fulfilling every law there is for guns, most non-gunners don't even understand or care how complex the gun laws are. They just see that in the media there were poachers who use guns to steal animals they had no right to take, and then there are careless people who have accidental discharges and sometimes negligently injure or kill in the process, and there are crazy people who use guns for evil. The positive and responsible uses of firearms are not spoken about in the media.

Try telling your friends the positive effect gun use has had on your life. You could easily come up with some cool things that you have learned and experienced through firearms. Here is once story most people hopefully can appreciate, as long as they personally eat meat themselves.

A hunter is able to harvest and process their own food from start to end. In doing so, the hunter personally knows that the animal was given the absolute respect it deserves, because the hunter personally made the highest effort each step of the way. From off season practice and proper bullet selection, to investing in good optics and equipment. When the moment comes that the hunter chooses to take an animal, it is taken with the best technology available to swiftly and efficiently retire the animal. Through hard work, all the meat is saved and processed for the enjoyment of the hunter's family and friends.

[trooper]

I dont think anyone should look at safety lightly. You can't call back that projectile once the trigger is pulled. I learned how to do it in the forces... safety checks all the time.. and as far as I'm concerned, the military sets the standard when firearms handling comes into play. After all, the soldier lives by his sword. In basic training, you learn weapons safety, and it carries over to civvy street one you get out. There is no substitute for safety and there is no "too much safety" as far as I'm concerned.

[bobtodrick]

I preach gun safety whenever I get a chance.
Had in incident at the range I'm a member of a couple of years ago...a young fellow teaching his (I assume) girlfriend how to shoot. At one point, while showing her some point or other he swept the entire shooting line, about 6 people, two of whom were my children with the muzzle.
To put it mildly I was mad as hell...as were the others.
He was red faced and extremely apologetic.
In my opinion you cannot go overboard preaching gun safety.

[Lux604]

I would rather have too much, then not enough. People learn different and retain info differently as well!

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by hilt134

Ive been thinking lately and i must say i think we over do firearm saftey. Particualr to anti gunners. Most gun guys i know will go off about safety procedures, locks, safes, acts, prove, and in turn the people they are telling this to tend to assume that guns are so dangerus you need to be this anal to be safe. Im guilty as charged trying to make friemds comfortable that you own guns by telling them about how overly safe you are. Shouldnt we be telling them gun safety is actually very simple and that just about any person can be entirley safe with a gun? Just wondering if im out to lunch here or if others agree? If you do keep it in mind next time you telling someone about firearm safety. Keep it reasonable and down to earth.

Sorry, but I gotta ask...do you feel we should ease up on the anti- drunk driving campaign as well?

[BuckCuller]

I drill gun safety into my kids and hunting/shooting partners. They need to know the ramifications for a mistake while handling firearms.
Just last fall we took a new fella out goose hunting and he fired his gun while reloading it and my son was running out to pick up the geese. Not to mention buddy thought he broke his thumb. That scared the hell out of me and we stoped the hunt and had a serious conversation. We went through how It happened and rectified how he holds the gun when reloading.
THE TWO LOUDEST SOUNDS IN THE WORLD ARE A CLICK WHEN IT SHOULD HAVE WENT BANG, AND A BANG WHEN IT SHOULD HAVE WENT CLICK.

[heretohunt]

I hunted with a guy who demanded that the bolt be open on our rifles at all times. I think that is going too far.

[hogie]

https://youtu.be/kuqANKDAqxA

I think this video shows why you can never be too safe. It's easy to get complacent and forget the basics even when you handle firearms all the time.

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by hogie

https://youtu.be/kuqANKDAqxA

I think this video shows why you can never be too safe. It's easy to get complacent and forget the basics even when you handle firearms all the time.

You could see he was a little rattled after shooting the ceiling his confidence went to Zero.

[Eastgoeswest]

Originally Posted by BuckCuller

You could see he was a little rattled after shooting the ceiling his confidence went to Zero.

Confidence 0% face 100% purple. Super lucky no one was hurt.

[heretohunt]

That video is funny. It makes you realize that muzzle control/direction is the only system that is reliable.

[KegRiver]

I grew up in an era when guns were tools, not sentient beings.

Rules don't make people safe, people who use common sense do.

All a reasonable person needs is basic rules, all other rules are for stupid people and stupid people don't follow rules which is what makes them stupid.

Those who say you can't be too safe need to follow that to it's ultimate conclusion.

Guns don't cause accidents. people cause accidents, so to be 100 percent safe, you have to get rid of people.

The quickest way to do that is to get rid of all the rules, then let nature take it's course.

Come to think of it, that may not be such a bad idea.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by hogie

https://youtu.be/kuqANKDAqxA

I think this video shows why you can never be too safe. It's easy to get complacent and forget the basics even when you handle firearms all the time.

Soooooo, what rule will stop people from becoming complacent?

[elkhunter11]

One of my hunting partners has lost a few shot opportunities because he not only carries the gun with an empty chamber, but with the safety on as well. I have watched him chamber a round, and try to squeeze the trigger for over a minute, before an animal walked away, because he had the safety on. I know other people that put their safety on when shooting skeet, and then forget to take it off, resulting in not being able to shoot when they wanted to. I have had issues with an auto safety on one SxS shotgun, which is why I much prefer shotguns that don't have this ridiculous feature. If I an carrying a gun with the action broken open, I don't need a safety.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by hilt134

Ive been thinking lately and i must say i think we over do firearm saftey. Particualr to anti gunners. Most gun guys i know will go off about safety procedures, locks, safes, acts, prove, and in turn the people they are telling this to tend to assume that guns are so dangerus you need to be this anal to be safe. Im guilty as charged trying to make friemds comfortable that you own guns by telling them about how overly safe you are. Shouldnt we be telling them gun safety is actually very simple and that just about any person can be entirley safe with a gun? Just wondering if im out to lunch here or if others agree? If you do keep it in mind next time you telling someone about firearm safety. Keep it reasonable and down to earth.

I have to disagree. I don't think appearing careful and responsible does us any harm. And that doesn't mean that we have to say that it is complicated or difficult. Everyone can do it.

And we need to continue to pound it into our own heads for our own sake. Not every legal hunter or shooter out there is always a safe handler. We all have our horror stories, maybe some about ourselves we would rather not tell.

[winger7mm]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

One of my hunting partners has lost a few shot opportunities because he not only carries the gun with an empty chamber, but with the safety on as well. I have watched him chamber a round, and try to squeeze the trigger for over a minute, before an animal walked away, because he had the safety on. I know other people that put their safety on when shooting skeet, and then forget to take it off, resulting in not being able to shoot when they wanted to. I have had issues with an auto safety on one SxS shotgun, which is why I much prefer shotguns that don't have this ridiculous feature. If I an carrying a gun with the action broken open, I don't need a safety.

If you have nothing uptop why have the safety on?? Its not gonna magically load itself....

[hogie]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Soooooo, what rule will stop people from becoming complacent?

Meant too comfortable around them. Easier to forget the basics

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by hogie

Meant too comfortable around them. Easier to forget the basics

And if someone forgets the basics, would they also forget the host of other rules as well?

The safest person is he who knows the consequences of his actions.

Adding to safety rules only make it more likely that an accident will happen, because people loose track of which ones they have followed and which ones the have not.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by winger7mm

If you have nothing uptop why have the safety on?? Its not gonna magically load itself....

Exactly what I keep telling him.

I haven't touched the safety/ barrel selectors on my O/U shotguns, since the day that I received them.

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

And if someone forgets the basics, would they also forget the host of other rules as well?

The safest person is he who knows the consequences of his actions.

Adding to safety rules only make it more likely that an accident will happen, because people loose track of which ones they have followed and which ones the have not.

I've had a few very good coaches over the years, both firearms (used to compete in Olympic style air-rifle many years ago) and auto racing. They both said things like it 'takes thousands of repetitions of an action for it to be ingrained in your memory'.
Safety rules are the same.
You can 'know' not to sweep the firing line. It takes 1000's of conscious repetitions for it to become completely second nature.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

I've had a few very good coaches over the years, both firearms (used to compete in Olympic style air-rifle many years ago) and auto racing. They both said things like it 'takes thousands of repetitions of an action for it to be ingrained in your memory'.
Safety rules are the same.
You can 'know' not to sweep the firing line. It takes 1000's of conscious repetitions for it to become completely second nature.

Agreed.

And don't you think that adding to the list of things we have to repeat a thousand times only reduces the number of things that will become second nature too us?

[Livefree23]

Interesting debate. I see truths on both sides.


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[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Agreed.

And don't you think that adding to the list of things we have to repeat a thousand times only reduces the number of things that will become second nature too us?

Not at all.
Take driving for instance.
Because of the amount most people drive over the years their are a great many things to remember.
After you have driven for years you just automatically use your turn indicator, or leave enough room for braking between the car ahead of you, or check your gauges on a regular basis...and many more. But if you are someone who takes their driving seriously (unfortunately many don't)...this all becomes second nature.
The brain is capable of remembering 1000's of things.