Car with a lien, repossessed

[masalma]

A friend of mine just called me and looking for advice.

- Bought a car for his wife to learn to drive on, he drives a big suburban and wife didn't feel comfortable driving it. Found a little car on Kijiji, owner was a nice lady that said she was the first owner and he ran a Carfax and history was good. Took it to a mechanic and everything checks out. Paid the lady $8000 and took the car home, registered and plated it.

Fast forward a month, he comes outside sees a tow truck hooking up the car and turned out it was the repo guys, there was a lien on the car for about $22k. And the lady only owned it for 2 months before selling it to him.


I told him that he should have done a lien check before buying a used car that is worth anything. "but too late for this"

My advice was that his only recourse if the lady isn't willing to return the money is take her to small claims court. Other than that there is nothing he can do.

Anyone been in a similar situation or have experience? or he is out of luck. Or possibility of criminal charges, because of fraud over $5k?


Thanks,

[coreya3212]

Criminal charges? Is it illegal to sell a car with a lien on it?

[Luxor]

Originally Posted by coreya3212

Criminal charges? Is it illegal to sell a car with a lien on it?

X2

Confront the lady seller first.....if she's still around.

Nice ladys can scam too

Crappy situation man

[masalma]

Originally Posted by coreya3212

Criminal charges? Is it illegal to sell a car with a lien on it?

Well she signed a bill of sale stating the car is free of liens.

[masalma]

Originally Posted by Luxor

X2

Confront the lady seller first.....if she's still around.

Nice ladys can scam too

Crappy situation man

He did, she changed her story. Originally she said she was the first owner and now she tells him she only had the car for 2 months.

[Luxor]

Originally Posted by masalma

He did, she changed her story. Originally she said she was the first owner and now she tells him she only had the car for 2 months.

Scam !!!!

Tell ur friend to call the cops asap !!!!!

Get a police report and her statement then hit the courts.

good luck

[Brad6510]

If the bill of sale stated that it was lien free then I'd say your friend has a good case of going after her for fraud. Whether he will come out on top after going to court is another story

I'm surprised it didn't come up when they registered it?

[alacringa]

Originally Posted by Brad6510

If the bill of sale stated that it was lien free then I'd say your friend has a good case of going after her for fraud. Whether he will come out on top after going to court is another story

I'm surprised it didn't come up when they registered it?

All of this. If he has documentation, it should be as easy go in the courts. How is there a $22k lien on a $8k vehicle? Either it's an old lien or something's fishy.

[Dacotensis]

Originally Posted by Brad6510

If the bill of sale stated that it was lien free then I'd say your friend has a good case of going after her for fraud. Whether he will come out on top after going to court is another story

I'm surprised it didn't come up when they registered it?

Yes.
Your friend bought it in good faith and has a claim against the lady.

Interested though to find out how the company found the car.

I always thought that privacy laws would protect us.

There may be a law that enables this type of info to be released to a third party.
Actually really interested now to know.
Usually the registering offices ladies have their lips sealed tight.

Where's ken for this question?

[Luxor]

Originally Posted by alacringa

All of this. If he has documentation, it should be as easy go in the courts. How is there a $22k lien on a $8k vehicle? Either it's an old lien or something's fishy.

8k was just the asking price to dump it quick is my guess

[masalma]

Originally Posted by alacringa

All of this. If he has documentation, it should be as easy go in the courts. How is there a $22k lien on a $8k vehicle? Either it's an old lien or something's fishy.

Yeah it was an old lien. Almost bought a car a while back for a project off road rig. Price was $2500 lien on it was $44k. My guess is the guy never paid anything since he bought it in 98

[Luxor]

Originally Posted by Dacotensis

Yes.
Your friend bought it in good faith and has a claim against the lady.

Interested though to find out how the company found the car.

I always thought that privacy laws would protect us.

There may be a law that enables this type of info to be released to a third party.
Actually really interested now to know.
Usually the registering offices ladies have their lips sealed tight.

Where's ken for this question?

Maybe the lady is involved in the repo.

Just my suspicious mind.

the world is out to get me lol

[CaberTosser]

Around 1988 a buddy had a 1968 Mustang, he had it for well over a year, registered and everything before the police came a knockin', turns out it had been stolen in Saskatchewan a number of years previous and it even had at least one 'legitimate' owner who also had it fully registered prior to my buddy buying it from them. The process was for the previous owner to refund my buddy and then pursue whomever he bought it from for his refund, this is to avoid the selling stolen merchandise charge. I drove my pal to the previous owners home to collect the refund and it was a pretty sad scene, here the fellow was refunding my buddy his money and doing what was right, but he lived in a low end neighborhood and had a child confined to a wheelchair..... . I sure hope that fellow got his money back from the previous person up the chain of owners.

The sad thing wells that while my buddy did recieve his purchase price refund, he had also put a bunch of money into the car, installing a GT hood and some other improvements, there was no getting any of that back though. My pal did have a lien check performed prior the the purchase, the goofy thing is that those searches wouldn't register stolen vehicles; I don't know whether that issue has been fixed in the years since.

[Luxor]

Originally Posted by masalma

Yeah it was an old lien. Almost bought a car a while back for a project off road rig. Price was $2500 lien on it was $44k. My guess is the guy never paid anything since he bought it in 98

I see a pattern here masalma lol

[masalma]

Originally Posted by Luxor

I see a pattern here masalma lol

Kijiji. :-)

WIFE and kids get new cars. I like to get cars that need TLC. Some people like golf I like wrenching on cars and hiding in the garage on my off time lol.

[Luxor]

Originally Posted by masalma

Kijiji. :-)

WIFE and kids get new cars. I like to get cars that need TLC. Some people like golf I like wrenching on cars and hiding in the garage on my off time lol.

Not a bad hobby bro

let us know how this story ends up

[masalma]

Originally Posted by Luxor

Not a bad hobby bro

let us know how this story ends up

Will do. I doubt he is going to do anything. Probably going to suck it up and consider it an expensive life lesson.

[Luxor]

Originally Posted by masalma

Will do. I doubt he is going to do anything. Probably going to suck it up and consider it an expensive life lesson.

Wow

Wish i had 8k to lose and not stress bout it

[Immigrant]

Due diligence..... That is what the bank told me when i was sold a unit with a lien on it. I did a search but must mistook a 0 as an O. So nothing came up. After paying I got home and thought to myself just double check the vin and sure as sh#t it has a lien. I phone the bank where it was and they pretty much said tough luck. I did not do my homework. BUT he said it is in their best interest that the original owner pay for the car. They lose too much if they repo. So they will exhaust all means to get their money before they take the car. I figured i have only one option and that is to make this scammer pay. I managed to get a lot of personal info on the guy and I showed up at his door to inform him of his only option - which was to come with me to his bank and settle this loan right now. I used some persuasion tactics from the "old country" and off we went to his bank.
So after talking with the bank regarding repo it is strange that they came to pick up your friends car that quick. Unless she never paid for it for a long time previous to the sale

[EZM]

I am surprised to have learned the car was able to be registered since all liens that are insured must be registered. I'm not saying all liens are insured - but most dealers insure their liens as far as I know.

The last few vehicles and boats I've purchased over the last 4-5 years have been cash and all brand new from the dealer, so maybe I'm wrong here - but I remember registrations used to have the (lien holder) bank and persons name on them .... but maybe that's changed. I haven't financed anything in a while so maybe things have changed.

If she sold the vehicle as "free of any liens and encumbrances" she broke the law.

Having said that, the police are likely to hold her to repayment of the purchase price and not press criminal charges (unless she does this regularly).

This one sucks but I'm sure your buddy won't buy another vehicle without a lien check anymore.

[msguns]

Masalma, carfax or registry report? I really recommend people go to a registry and get a "Vehicle Information Report". Get the VIN off the vehicle personally (not over the phone) and go to an office. Note the odometer reading and the person's story as to when they registered it to themselves. The VIR will thell you the status (active or not, meaning currently registered or salvage, etc.), first recorded registration in Alberta's system by date, lien information, and probably licence plate classification. This was in the $20.00 range a few years ago so probably a bit more now. So worth it, we've caught BS more than once with one. Here's a link to more info: https://www.servicealberta.ca/1763.cfm As for court.... good luck.

[msguns]

And, where is the proof about the lien? This could all be BS and the tow was part of the scam. Vehicles get stolen via tow trucks. Criminals are inventive and creative.

[masalma]

Originally Posted by msguns

And, where is the proof about the lien? This could all be BS and the tow was part of the scam. Vehicles get stolen via tow trucks. Criminals are inventive and creative.

Apparently they showed him all the lien information and provided a copy. If I understood him correctly there was a peace officer with them to make sure it went smoothly.

And he pulled a carfax report. Not a vehicle information report. $20 could have saved thousands.

[silverdoctor]

Yep, lien check is money well spent.

Maybe she found out after buying it that it had a lien on it and dumped it as quick as she could. If she sold it as being lien free...

[the.tru.albertan]

Originally Posted by msguns

Masalma, carfax or registry report? I really recommend people go to a registry and get a "Vehicle Information Report". Get the VIN off the vehicle personally (not over the phone) and go to an office. Note the odometer reading and the person's story as to when they registered it to themselves. The VIR will thell you the status (active or not, meaning currently registered or salvage, etc.), first recorded registration in Alberta's system by date, lien information, and probably licence plate classification. This was in the $20.00 range a few years ago so probably a bit more now. So worth it, we've caught BS more than once with one. Here's a link to more info: https://www.servicealberta.ca/1763.cfm As for court.... good luck.

Bingo. Alberta VIR is the way to go. You never, ever pull a carfax in Canada. CarProof is more applicable in this country but the safest bet is a VIR.

CarProof and CarFax usually have errors somewhere in them.

[Redfrog]

Private matter. If he goes to small claims and gets a judgement he still has to collect it. Good luck.

[msguns]

Originally Posted by masalma

Apparently they showed him all the lien information and provided a copy. If I understood him correctly there was a peace officer with them to make sure it went smoothly.

And he pulled a carfax report. Not a vehicle information report. $20 could have saved thousands.

Ah... I see. Well, Redfrog is right, collecting on a judgement is the step nobody talks about; it can lead nowhere. Sorry to your friend.

[dmac]

In several provinces a private seller must purchase a vehicle information report and make it available to potential purchasers. This protects buyers from the scenario this guy ran into.

Seems pretty civilized to me.

[friendofacatahoula]

VIR can sometimes not tell the entire story. It works great for AB vehicles but should the vehicle have a lien from Ontario for example it may not show up. At least this was the case within the past few years. We had researched this extensively after a bad purchase.

Also, reports like Carfax are pretty much useless. Many provinces are not required to report insurance claims and other incidents. I will use Ontario as an example again. We purchased a used vehicle from a dealer ship a few years back in AB. Dealership even provided a copy of the Carfax. No accidents recorded. We had weird issues within the first year, electrical issues, things kept failing. Anyhow long story short the car was purchased for $25,000. It was two years old. When it was 6 months old it had an accident that showed a damage assessment of $26,000 in Ontario. It did not show up on Carfax for 3 years after we purchased it. And we ran the report a few times after the first year we purchased it because we knew something wasn't right. We were screwed when we went to sell it. No one wanted a vehicle that was within pennies of being written off. Talked to a lawyer and they said it would cost thousands to go after the dealer ship.

Anyhow, each province has different reporting requirements. I am wary of any used vehicle purchases. If I know it's %100 an Alberta vehicle I have a little more faith but not even purchasing from in major city from a major manufacturers lot is always safe.

Arm yourself with as much info as possible. The registry VIR is cheap, if it's a big purchase get both a car proof and car fax. $50 up front isn't a lot on a several thousand dollar vehicle but you are not guaranteed to get the full story.

[the.tru.albertan]

I was told that CarProof gets their lien info directly from the government (registrar). Yet, I have compared CarProof and VIR and the lien info was still wrong on the CarProof. (Happened in two cases)


When buying a vehicle, you could pull everything. CarFax, CarProof, VIR. But in my mind, the one that holds the most weight for liens is the VIR. Especially if the vehicle is from AB.

In the end, you could have done all of your homework and still get screwed.