Subsistence hunting- OFFICIAL thread

[slickwilly]

Bobalong, I think I am with you for the most part.
http://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/110.../1100100020668
As of 2008, the number of Registered Indians was just over 100,000 in AB.
Page 7 of this document: http://www.acr-alberta.com/Portals/0...%20Alberta.pdf
shows the majority of the population is skewed north of slave lake. Hunting pressure in AB by natives is seriously a drop in the bucket. Especially in the central and southern regions of the province, where it is land access, and not tag availability that limits the hunting pressure.
Besides a blind sense of injustice that another group of people is being treated differently, I don't think there is a logical conservation based argument to be made that native hunting is a problem.
As for Suffield specifically. Its basically a glorified game farm. Who cares who shoots the bulls? Once the numbers are down, I am sure whoever is in control can limit access to natives and non-natives alike.

[Squeaker]

Originally Posted by slickwilly

Bobalong, I think I am with you for the most part.
http://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/110.../1100100020668
As of 2008, the number of Registered Indians was just over 100,000 in AB.
Page 7 of this document: http://www.acr-alberta.com/Portals/0...%20Alberta.pdf
shows the majority of the population is skewed north of slave lake. Hunting pressure in AB by natives is seriously a drop in the bucket. Especially in the central and southern regions of the province, where it is land access, and not tag availability that limits the hunting pressure.
Besides a blind sense of injustice that another group of people is being treated differently, I don't think there is a logical conservation based argument to be made that native hunting is a problem.
As for Suffield specifically. Its basically a glorified game farm. Who cares who shoots the bulls? Once the numbers are down, I am sure whoever is in control can limit access to natives and non-natives alike.

The problem is there is people that have been waiting and applying faithfully for 10+ years of there life waiting for that tag ..Why should the be ripped off and cheated out of there chances for a decent once in a life time hunt ? Guess the government should give those 21,000 people that apply there ,their money back for there draw applications hey ? Hahaha

[Squeaker]

Hey smoking joe when suffield was full of all the wild mustangs and the ranchers were crying about there being to many of them out there where were the natives and there subsistence hunting then ? I didn't see them out there shooting horses and they could have by law , or captured them ..so how come its such a big difference now that its 300 class bull elk ? hope you not gonna tell me its subsistence hunting !!

[justhunt]

To me the definition of subsistence hunting is NOT trophy hunting and there should be a requirement to follow certain guidelines as to what subsistence hunting can include. In my opinion anyways subsistence hunting should not be a truckload of 380" class bull elk nor should it be a bighorn ram in the rut! In my opinion first nations have the right to subsistence hunt but should have to follow the same rules as everyone else when it comes to tough to draw tags or trophy hunting.

[slickwilly]

10+ years at Suffield?

[Squeaker]

Originally Posted by slickwilly

10+ years at Suffield?

Surrounding wmu's to suffield base for an elk draw.

[SmokinJoe]

[QUOTE=Squeaker;2702528]The problem is there is people that have been waiting and applying faithfully for 10+ years of there life waiting for that tag ..Why should the be ripped off and cheated out of there chances for a decent once in a life time hunt ? Guess the government should give those 21,000 people that apply there ,their money back for there draw applications hey ? Hahaha[/

Did you know that you can buy a general elk tag every year?

[H380]

[QUOTE=SmokinJoe;2702547]

Originally Posted by Squeaker

The problem is there is people that have been waiting and applying faithfully for 10+ years of there life waiting for that tag ..Why should the be ripped off and cheated out of there chances for a decent once in a life time hunt ? Guess the government should give those 21,000 people that apply there ,their money back for there draw applications hey ? Hahaha[/

Did you know that you can buy a general elk tag every year?

Smokin Joe,Help us out and tell us what zones we can buy these tags in that will give us a shot at a 400" bull ?

[SmokinJoe]

[QUOTE=H380;2702574]

Originally Posted by SmokinJoe

Help us out and tell us what zones we can buy these tags in that will give us a shot at a 400" bull ?

A guy with half a shot at killing an elk would already know this

[H380]

[QUOTE=SmokinJoe;2702577]

Originally Posted by H380

A guy with half a shot at killing an elk would already know this

Not much of an answer ..

[SmokinJoe]

[QUOTE=H380;2702574]

Originally Posted by SmokinJoe

Smokin Joe,Help us out and tell us what zones we can buy these tags in that will give us a shot at a 400" bull ?

Why don't you wear out some boots like the rest of us did to find that out.

[H380]

[QUOTE=SmokinJoe;2702668]

Originally Posted by H380

Why don't you wear out some boots like the rest of us did to find that out.

Oh so you walked to Suffield ?Cause you still haven't answered the original question , simply because you can't.

[crownb]

[QUOTE=H380;2702835]

Originally Posted by SmokinJoe

Oh so you walked to Suffield ? Cause you still haven't answered the original question , simply because you can't .

It's funny how the hard questions get left behind.

[SmokinJoe]

[QUOTE=H380;2702835]

Originally Posted by SmokinJoe

Oh so you walked to Suffield ?Cause you still haven't answered the original question , simply because you can't.

No avoiding the question because nobody wants their spot advertised on here. Not myself not the other members on here.

[chugg]

[QUOTE=H380;2702574]

Originally Posted by SmokinJoe

Smokin Joe,Help us out and tell us what zones we can buy these tags in that will give us a shot at a 400" bull ?

Has there been a 400" inch B&C bull ever recorded around suffeld? If you bow hunt you could try 152 and 151 I'm pretty sure thats general archery

[Squeaker]

[QUOTE=chugg;2702714]

Originally Posted by H380

Has there been a 400" inch B&C bull ever recorded around suffeld? If you bow hunt you could try 152 and 151 I'm pretty sure thats general archery

only for 2weeks and yes there has been 400inch bulls taken from those zones and recorded to B&C

[Sneeze]

What is a manageable change that for the time being settles things down?

I would suggest following the lead of some other jurisdictions... Simply requiring a trophy animal harvested under treaty rights has a horn cut in two.

As hunters we are not going to force the Feds to shred the Indian act, but the simple act of cutting a horn in half would pacify me.

If a trophy set of horns is the goal, our draw system can work pretty good for Whitey and natives too. With a tag, you keep the horns intact.

[Squeaker]

Originally Posted by Sneeze

What is a manageable change that for the time being settles things down?

I would suggest following the lead of some other jurisdictions... Simply requiring a trophy animal harvested under treaty rights has a horn cut in two.

As hunters we are not going to force the Feds to shred the Indian act, but the simple act of cutting a horn in half would pacify me.

If a trophy set of horns is the goal, our draw system can work pretty good for Whitey and natives too. With a tag, you keep the horns intact.

x2

[elkhunter11]

[QUOTE=SmokinJoe;2702547]

Originally Posted by Squeaker

The problem is there is people that have been waiting and applying faithfully for 10+ years of there life waiting for that tag ..Why should the be ripped off and cheated out of there chances for a decent once in a life time hunt ? Guess the government should give those 21,000 people that apply there ,their money back for there draw applications hey ? Hahaha[/

Did you know that you can buy a general elk tag every year?

Except there is no general season for elk on the land bordering Suffied, so you can't hunt those trophy elk without waiting over 10 years to draw a tag.

[SmokinJoe]

[QUOTE=elkhunter11;2702578]

Originally Posted by SmokinJoe

Except there is no general season for elk on the land bordering Suffied, so you can't hunt those trophy elk without waiting over 10 years to draw a tag.

The reason the vast majority of guys put in for it is because they have no clue how to kill one anywhere else. Your chance of blind luck killing a big one is substantially greater than in other areas.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by SmokinJoe

The reason the vast majority of guys put in for it is because they have no clue how to kill one anywhere else. Your chance of blind luck killing a big one is substantially greater than in other areas.

So is that why those native hunters from Saskatchewan went to Suffield when they could hunt anywhere else, whenever they choose?

[SmokinJoe]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So is that why those native hunters from Saskatchewan went to Suffield when they could hunt anywhere else, whenever they choose?

Look at a map and see how close Saskatchewan is to suffield.

[H380]

we are all concerned about conservation and game management both natives and non natives alike . It is widely accepted and talked about and agreed upon that ESRD has limited funds for doing this . As I understand it , the ministers tags are sold with the idea of raising funds for game management , habitat enhancement etc .. in other words a good thing . I have no idea what the elk tag sells for each year at auction but I'm sure it is a sizeable amount and it allows a hunter the opportunity to hunt elk virtually anywhere in the province ,hunting zones is what I'm talking about .Gonna go way out on a limb here and ask a question : Lets assume the ministers tag for elk sells for $100,000 , the buyer harvests a 400" bull near the base and has in essence donated $100,000 to game management . How much money could the province have collected if these large bulls that have been taken there recently were harvested under a purchased tag situation ?

[Cowtown guy]

[QUOTE=SmokinJoe;2702586]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The reason the vast majority of guys put in for it is because they have no clue how to kill one anywhere else. Your chance of blind luck killing a big one is substantially greater than in other areas.

What happened to this??

Originally Posted by SmokinJoe

Who cares if it's about trophy or not? Why wouldn't First Nations people have a right to put the skills handed down to them over thousands of years to the test and honor the people who have handed them down through taking mature animals that are harder to get than a young one.

Get over the greed

Kinda sounds like that knowledge isn't worth much if they have to go to Suffield because the chances are so good hey?

[bobalong]

QuoteE=Squeaker;2702481]If they needed that much meat supplied to there families then they would be shooting what ever comes in front of them ...I find it very hard to believe that 400hundered mature trophy class bulls were lined up walking single file for them to shoot ..I also find it hard that on that long drive from Saskatchewan to suffield that they didn't pass any other deer moose elk antelope that they could have shot ..they had to come all the way to suffield to shoot elk ...100% proof right there this isn't subsistence hunting ..How much more clear do you need it ?
First of all, I doubt very much the trip was to shoot an elk, also without knowing where they come from, I do not know if a "long drive" is even a correct assumption. About the only thing that is 100%, IMO is that they did not have to get permission on private land, which there is lots of on the way, access was easy, and they were able to shoot what ever elk they got without driving 100's of km's to find them.

If you need subsistence hunting to feed your families the first animal you see your gonna shoot ..Not driving hundreds of KM to go shoot a trophy class bull elk.. Does this not make sense ? Hundreds of KM?, where did they come from. [/QUOTE]

[Don K]

Originally Posted by Squeaker

The problem is there is people that have been waiting and applying faithfully for 10+ years of there life waiting for that tag ..Why should the be ripped off and cheated out of there chances for a decent once in a life time hunt ? Guess the government should give those 21,000 people that apply there ,their money back for there draw applications hey ? Hahaha

Thank you!

[elkhunter1234]

http://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/110.../1100100028803

Here is a link to Tready #7
I find the small one paragraph part where they talk about hunting right the most interesting... When are we ever going to get a government with big enough balls to make these time to time changes that the Tready talks about happen???

Jim..

[SmokinJoe]

Originally Posted by elkhunter1234

http://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/110.../1100100028803

Here is a link to Tready #7
I find the small one paragraph part where they talk about hunting right the most interesting... When are we ever going to get a government with big enough balls to make these time to time changes that the Tready talks about happen???

Jim..

Now go read the rest of the treaties.