Elk Island National Park considers hunt to cull herds

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by BuckCuller

It looks like a jump gate for ATV's.

I must admit that I never thought of that. They are very OHV friendly in the Kootney's. I rarely use an OHV so wouldn't know.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by takeiteasybird

I don't disagree with the fact the herds need to be kept in check (balance) through hunting, natural predation etc. My comment was more in regards to my impression that most people's motivation behind commenting on this topic (and being a hot topic) is based on the thought of an easy hunt rather than conservation of that area.

I don't understand why everyone thinks this would be an "easy" hunt. Elk Island is much larger the Blackfoot, and does not have all the nice trail's crisscrossing it like Blackfoot does. No one thinks hunting Elk in blackfoot is "easy". If the use of vehicles and OHV's are restricted or at least curtailed to protect the land, it could be a very tough Elk hunt in the park.
Should be an interesting meeting tomorrow. My vote would be for a lottery draw like it was at Suffield.

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by waterninja

I must admit that I never thought of that. They are very OHV friendly in the Kootney's. I rarely use an OHV so wouldn't know.

Yeh I don't ATV much either but it looks like it's supposed to keep cattle out and let ATV's pass back and forth.
If I was going to make a jump gate it would just be a section of fence that's about five or six feet tall that you could close in the top at any time to complete the full height of the fence.
Which would be a great place for a tree stand.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by waterninja

I must admit that I never thought of that. They are very OHV friendly in the Kootney's. I rarely use an OHV so wouldn't know.

That's not a "jump gate" for animals.

LC

[takeiteasybird]

Originally Posted by waterninja

I don't understand why everyone thinks this would be an "easy" hunt. Elk Island is much larger the Blackfoot, and does not have all the nice trail's crisscrossing it like Blackfoot does. No one thinks hunting Elk in blackfoot is "easy". If the use of vehicles and OHV's are restricted or at least curtailed to protect the land, it could be a very tough Elk hunt in the park.
Should be an interesting meeting tomorrow. My vote would be for a lottery draw like it was at Suffield.

Easier as in success rate...

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

That's not a "jump gate" for animals.

LC

i think they refer to it as the shin killer 6000

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Young Eldon

Federal Parks belong to ALL CANADIANS! So ALL CANADIANS should have an opportunity to benefit from the animals in these Parks! National Parks have been neglecting their duties in this regard for many years by allowing selected hunters to shoot animals in National Parks. First Nations have been given priority to hunt in Banff Park and Suffield army base. Newfoundland residents have been allowed to hunt moose in a Federal Park in Newfoundland.

A draw hunt open to all Canadians or contracts for capture, disease inspection, processing and sale of all the products would be the equitable ways to reduce these animal densities in National Parks.

Agree with all but the bolded quote.
Wow, really surprised to see you write that.


Promoting the Sale of wildlife is dangerous grounds that I hope we stay away from.




Bit by bit, Non aboriginal people are losing their basic human right to access food. We need to recognize this and fight back for our right to eat.

National Parks have and will with more frequency be reaching out to hunters for wildlife management purposes, as they should. However rather than the politically easy route of calling in the Indians, Parks must make the extra effort to include ALL Canadians.


Hopefully some local hunters can make the meeting on such short notice, and I hope the AFGA can send a representative.


Jump fences are a neat idea, but so far they have not been found to work.
No one has designed a barrier that will allow all other animals to cross while excluding Bison.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

i think they refer to it as the shin killer 6000

"Shin Killer". LOL Thats exactly what I was thinking as I stopped and looked at it. I had never seen one of these before. An OHV access gate makes sense.

[Pikebreath]

Originally Posted by waterninja

"Shin Killer". LOL Thats exactly what I was thinking as I stopped and looked at it. I had never seen one of these before. An OHV access gate makes sense.

Yes... It's an above ground equivalent of a Texas Gate for OHVs.

[Sooner]

Now that it is news, a big ole can of worms has been opened up. In a few days the news will be filled with the anti's crying fowl that a hunt/cull will happen in the hallowed grounds of a park. When in fact a well planned hunt could be done but I think the logistics of the park, lack of real travel roads would make a hunt tough. I would love to apply for a tag but in reality, the best may be a cull from the parks people. Maybe they could have a draw where if you win, you get to pick up a animal after the cull.

If they allow FN in, they should give equal chance to non FN but after Suffield, we know it will never happen.

There was a blurb in the article saying they can't transfer anymore due to Cwd being close to the park. I have not seen or heard of this? Did I miss that Cwd has come that close to Edmonton already?

I go there lots to golf and drive through lots. Rarely see elk from the main roads so a hunt in there would be interesting, fence or no fence keeping them in. Most likely going to be a bait area with feed in the winter to draw them in and Parks staff will do the deed.

[nube]

So for the guys that don't like my idea of auctioning off tags is is all about the rich getting what they want? Do you not see the benefits to the rest of Albertans with the money that would be made? Do you not see what good Cadomin sheep Auctions have been to benefit sheep on the mountain for ALL Albertans?
Ya we all hate seeing Rich people getting what they want but open your eyes to what the money could be used for. And I know for a fact that people would pay a ton of money to be able to have a tag for in there. We could make huge money for all kinds of projects in Alberta and even afford to hire a few more CO's with it. Seems like a lot of guys complain about not having this or that and don't realise you got to get the money for certain projects somehow.

The other side of things is we can have an added hunting opportunity and have it turn out to be a total Cluster gong show like Suffield and get nothing out of it to benefit anyone except for the freezer full of meat.

[big zeke]

This is a park and open to the public...it isn't like Suffield where no public is allowed anywhere. Given the fact it is not bald prairie, I'd be concerned for the other park users during the hunt...shutting down public access isn't a trivial issue especially that close to Edmonton.

The tags should be on a lottery basis to all qualified applicants...that way nobody is favored (the rich, the FNs, nobody). Since this is a national park, not sure what skills/history they have in handing out tags...this is all done provincially now.

Call it a cull, a canned hunt or whatever...if you don't like the idea, don't apply. No benefit in complaining.

If they don't get on it PDQ, overpopulation will get worse fast. This needs to happen this fall, not next.

[play.soccer]

The best comment on facebook was "just introduce more predators to the park"



lol anti-hunters that just don't get it.

[buckmasterjr]

Does anyone have more info on where they found cases of CWD near the park?

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by buckmasterjr

Does anyone have more info on where they found cases of CWD near the park?

http://aep.alberta.ca/fish-wildlife/...s/default.aspx

[sjd]

Originally Posted by play.soccer

The best comment on facebook was "just introduce more predators to the park"



lol anti-hunters that just don't get it.

I don't think this is a dumb comment. High fences and lack of predators are the root cause of the problem. There are wolves in Cooking Lake Blackfoot. Lots of good habitat in the broader Beaver Hills. I'd be interested in what Parks has to say about making the fences more permeable to wildlife and contributing to the broader ecosystem.

Not everyone hates predators. A resident wolf pack in Elk Island/Blackfoot would be a huge draw for city folks. Would they be able to stay out of trouble though? Just look at the tourism in Yellowstone.

[3blade]

Originally Posted by sjd

I don't think this is a dumb comment. High fences and lack of predators are the root cause of the problem. There are wolves in Cooking Lake Blackfoot. Lots of good habitat in the broader Beaver Hills. I'd be interested in what Parks has to say about making the fences more permeable to wildlife and contributing to the broader ecosystem.

Not everyone hates predators. A resident wolf pack in Elk Island/Blackfoot would be a huge draw for city folks. Would they be able to stay out of trouble though? Just look at the tourism in Yellowstone.

Yeah, exactly, look at Yellowstone. What a disaster.

Blackfoot had to cull the wolves two years ago because they already got into trouble.

Alberta has 2-3 times (think about that...DOUBLE or more likely TRIPLE) the wolf population our land mass can support. Last thing we need is more wolves.

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by 3blade

Yeah, exactly, look at Yellowstone. What a disaster.

Blackfoot had to cull the wolves two years ago because they already got into trouble.

Alberta has 2-3 times (think about that...DOUBLE or more likely TRIPLE) the wolf population our land mass can support. Last thing we need is more wolves.

X2

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by big zeke

This is a park and open to the public...it isn't like Suffield where no public is allowed anywhere. Given the fact it is not bald prairie, I'd be concerned for the other park users during the hunt...shutting down public access isn't a trivial issue especially that close to Edmonton.

The tags should be on a lottery basis to all qualified applicants...that way nobody is favored (the rich, the FNs, nobody). Since this is a national park, not sure what skills/history they have in handing out tags...this is all done provincially now.

Call it a cull, a canned hunt or whatever...if you don't like the idea, don't apply. No benefit in complaining.

If they don't get on it PDQ, overpopulation will get worse fast. This needs to happen this fall, not next.

Yes it would be that easy. They do it right now in Blackfoot/cooking lake recreation area which borders Elk Island Park. And Blackfoot has about 170 kms. of hiking trails that allow much greater access to all parts of the area, unlike Elk Island.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by nube

So for the guys that don't like my idea of auctioning off tags is is all about the rich getting what they want? Do you not see the benefits to the rest of Albertans with the money that would be made? Do you not see what good Cadomin sheep Auctions have been to benefit sheep on the mountain for ALL Albertans?
Ya we all hate seeing Rich people getting what they want but open your eyes to what the money could be used for. And I know for a fact that people would pay a ton of money to be able to have a tag for in there. We could make huge money for all kinds of projects in Alberta and even afford to hire a few more CO's with it. Seems like a lot of guys complain about not having this or that and don't realise you got to get the money for certain projects somehow.

The other side of things is we can have an added hunting opportunity and have it turn out to be a total Cluster gong show like Suffield and get nothing out of it to benefit anyone except for the freezer full of meat.

If I had to choose between only Indians allowed to hunt or your idea, then I would prefer your's. Don't kid yourself though, that the money raised would be used the way you describe it. I don't trust the Govt. to redirect the money raised in the way you envision it. I could see the govt. using the money raised to buy more photo radar units. lol

[waterninja]

I have to say, that though I would love to have a chance to draw for an Elk Island Elk tag, the most logical solution would be to round them up and send them to the meat packing plant. Unlike Suffield, this park is totally enclosed and they have the facilities to round the Elk up. They have been doing it for years for relocation purposes.
But still, I would really like a chance to hunt Elk Island.

[sjd]

Originally Posted by 3blade

Yeah, exactly, look at Yellowstone. What a disaster.

Blackfoot had to cull the wolves two years ago because they already got into trouble.

Alberta has 2-3 times (think about that...DOUBLE or more likely TRIPLE) the wolf population our land mass can support. Last thing we need is more wolves.

Have you got any science to back up that stat?

What disaster do you talk about in Yellowstone - most scientists suggest you saw a reduction in the artificially high elk numbers (which Elk Island is dealing with) and a bunch of other positive changes to the ecosystem.

Sure there's less competition with hunters (or ranchers in provincial parks, but that's another thread) with predators out of the ecosystem but that doesn't mean its better.

[turbo mulcher]

Transplant some of them to the Panther or YaHa

[nube]

Originally Posted by sjd

I don't think this is a dumb comment. High fences and lack of predators are the root cause of the problem. There are wolves in Cooking Lake Blackfoot. Lots of good habitat in the broader Beaver Hills. I'd be interested in what Parks has to say about making the fences more permeable to wildlife and contributing to the broader ecosystem.

Not everyone hates predators. A resident wolf pack in Elk Island/Blackfoot would be a huge draw for city folks. Would they be able to stay out of trouble though? Just look at the tourism in Yellowstone.

You obviously don't hunt where wolves and other predators are in this province if you want to entertain the thought of putting predators in there....
You must be that guy that doesn't mind watching depleteling herd numbers and waiting for 8 years for a moose tag either?
Ask Montana now how they feel about putting wolves in Yellowstone and watching what the grizz have done as well...

And for your info there are wolves in Blackfoot which means they can go into Elk island as well and probably do. 21 of them minus 4 dead ones if you want to know the numbers.
I also caught one close to ministik in a coyote snare which is a ways from there also...

[Bigwoodsman]

Why don't they just introduce wolves too the park and let nature run its course?

BW

[waterninja]

I wonder if they could push Elk into Blackfoot which is already set up for Elk hunting? They could issue more tags.
Something to ask the Elk Island Park representitive that is appearing on 630 Ched tomorrow at 9:am.

[3blade]

Originally Posted by sjd

Have you got any science to back up that stat?

What disaster do you talk about in Yellowstone - most scientists suggest you saw a reduction in the artificially high elk numbers (which Elk Island is dealing with) and a bunch of other positive changes to the ecosystem.

Sure there's less competition with hunters (or ranchers in provincial parks, but that's another thread) with predators out of the ecosystem but that doesn't mean its better.

Im on my phone, I'll see if I can find it later. The estimate was something like current population 11000 wolves with a carrying capacity of around 4000.

Re Yellowstone: how about the decimated populations of bighorn sheep, mule deer, white tails, moose... the expansion of wolves into neighboring states and the effects on their agricultural production and non-overpopulated ungulate herds...oh, right, you watched 'how wolves changed a river' and now you're an expert.

Yellowstone wolf reintroduction was one of the biggest screw ups in conservation history. They may have even meant well, but with no process to contain and control wolf numbers, they destroyed much more than they helped

[bonecollector10]

Letting the FN in to cull will do nothing for anyone. As mentioned, although this wouldn't be considered "fair chase" tags or permits should be issued for a price. This way money will be raised to further benefit the park for a time to come.

If the FN go in and cull well be right back here in a few years wondering how to deal with it again with no proper solution. With the money raised from tag sales the entire herd could be managed better and monitored closer.

I doubt the FN will make a suitable donation to compensate for all the free meat they'll receive further benefiting OUR national park.

An in park cull would be a shame if left for scavengers. No money raised and a waste of meat. And killing them and sending them to local butchers would prove costly for the gov't. I don't see how letting people pay for this hunt isn't the best and most clear option.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by bonecollector10

Letting the FN in to cull will do nothing for anyone. As mentioned, although this wouldn't be considered "fair chase" tags or permits should be issued for a price. This way money will be raised to further benefit the park for a time to come.

If the FN go in and cull well be right back here in a few years wondering how to deal with it again with no proper solution. With the money raised from tag sales the entire herd could be managed better and monitored closer.

I doubt the FN will make a suitable donation to compensate for all the free meat they'll receive further benefiting OUR national park.

An in park cull would be a shame if left for scavengers. No money raised and a waste of meat. And killing them and sending them to local butchers would prove costly for the gov't. I don't see how letting people pay for this hunt isn't the best and most clear option.

You should be at that meeting tomorrow to pass on some common sense on the subject, I fear what the outcome will be if left to our residing government.

[Talking moose]

Are they culling moose as well?



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