Philip Cahoon, Outfitter from Sherwood Park Convicted and Sentenced in Ponoka Courtroom

[ghostguy6]

Originally Posted by cody j

So it’s ok to shoot 64 ducks and only pick up 8 ?

It is if you work for APOS......

[buckbrush]

Originally Posted by 1899b

I always thought he might be on the other side of the law or rules when he started defending Pat Garrett on here. Birds of a feather..

That pretty much made up my mind too. Something along the lines of 'He who is perfect can throw the first stone'.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by ceedub

Farmers not swathing canola because they're worried about geese in the crop? Hmm.

Craig

Sent from my SM-A505W using Tapatalk

I can count with no fingers how many times I’ve hunted birds in canola
Hahaha

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

I can count with no fingers how many times I’ve hunted birds in canola
Hahaha

I don't think I EVER have!
Cat

[ceedub]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

I can count with no fingers how many times I’ve hunted birds in canola

Hahaha

Me too.

Craig

Sent from my SM-A505W using Tapatalk

[Dean2]

Guys, just check out his user name "Gifted Intuitive", you KNOW he has a high opinion of himself, just from that. To post his kind of blatantly inflammatory nonsense he is just trying to get a rise. Ignore the provocation, it really has nothing to do with the thread. It is intended to distract from the main point which is another outfitter convicted of serious breaches and APOS's lack of willingness to do anything about it. In one of the articles they contacted APOS, their only response was, they say Phil and Mud Lake are still in good standing with APOS.

[fish_e_o]

did this guy seriously get a suspension for one of the best and most informative posts in a long time.

this place is dying and full of cucks

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by 1899b

Didn’t realize he just got suspended.. wow...

ya it's been nice, i'll be banned for speaking out. but i'm doing what is right

[Gifted Intuitive]

Originally Posted by cody j

So it’s ok to shoot 64 ducks and only pick up 8 ?

So its okay to shoot 100 gophers and only pick up 0 (zero) ?

Racism : the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races (quoted from Lexico.com)

I believe a true Outdoorsperson should not promote 'species' racism.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

ya it's been nice, i'll be banned for speaking out. but i'm doing what is right

The problem with a suspension is that those of us that are not moderators do not see the posts that do not get to the forum , the warnings or the other private interactions between moderators and members .
All we see is what is on the open forum.
Cat

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Guys, just check out his user name "Gifted Intuitive", you KNOW he has a high opinion of himself, just from that. To post his kind of blatantly inflammatory nonsense he is just trying to get a rise. Ignore the provocation, it really has nothing to do with the thread. It is intended to distract from the main point which is another outfitter convicted of serious breaches and APOS's lack of willingness to do anything about it. In one of the articles they contacted APOS, their only response was, they say Phil and Mud Lake are still in good standing with APOS.

Originally Posted by Gifted Intuitive

So its okay to shoot 100 gophers and only pick up 0 (zero) ?

Racism : the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races (quoted from Lexico.com)

I believe a true Outdoorsperson should not promote 'species' racism.

how are you in two places at once????????????????????????????????



WEIRD!!!!!

anyway i ate a gopher once and i prefer ducks

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Gifted Intuitive

So its okay to shoot 100 gophers and only pick up 0 (zero) ?

Racism : the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races (quoted from Lexico.com)

I believe a true Outdoorsperson should not promote 'species' racism.

So would you prefer that landowners use poison to control ground squirrels, and other pests, so other species can become effected by the poison? Have you ever trapped mice? Did you eat them? Do you swat mosquitoes or flies? Do you eat them? They are all pests, not game animals, and they are killed to control them, not to provide a food source.

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

The problem with a suspension is that those of us that are not moderators do not see the posts that do not get to the forum , the warnings or the other private interactions between moderators and members .
All we see is what is on the open forum.
Cat

Stop it with the common sense approach...

[Gifted Intuitive]

Originally Posted by ganderblaster

I really don’t see your point. Snow geese are the only waterfowl species that are scientifically proven to be overpopulated the rest are holding steady to 4% increase except for the widgeon which is a success story, the pin tails are actually declining rapidly to the point where a lower daily limit has been imposed in many states. In my area the locals are more then enough to cover the little bit of crop damage that occurs and many farmers prefer the pay out from wildlife crop damage on a wet year anyway.

'Overpopulated' as assessed by someone who provides for themselves or their families from my tax dollars is obviously different from someone who estimates loosing 10,000 lbs of grain each day from migratory wildlife. This is a very conservative estimate as I have had large agricultural producers estimate that it can be up to 50,000 lbs per day because of the size of their agri-business.
Now you do the math: 10,000 lbs /day loss for each of wheat, barley and lentils.

[Albertadiver]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Guys, just check out his user name "Gifted Intuitive", you KNOW he has a high opinion of himself, just from that. To post his kind of blatantly inflammatory nonsense he is just trying to get a rise. Ignore the provocation, it really has nothing to do with the thread. It is intended to distract from the main point which is another outfitter convicted of serious breaches and APOS's lack of willingness to do anything about it. In one of the articles they contacted APOS, their only response was, they say Phil and Mud Lake are still in good standing with APOS.

^^ This

Hoping (not optimistically) that this is another nail in the coffin for how APOS is currently structured and ran. Also important that this very vocal poacher is finally legally out'ed.

[Gifted Intuitive]

Originally Posted by 1899b

Wow the farmers you know pretty much suck...

I did a research project studying gravitational influences and my partner said gravity is easy to explain: The earth sucks.

The concept of farmer has to be changed. Think 'Agricultural Corporation' controlling 50+ quarters of land where productivity can not be interrupted by the constant request for hunting permission. Agri-business landholdings make 50+ quarters a small operation. The owners of these operations do not reside where their land operations are. Hunters will often drive out to workers on fields and discuss land access but this person is a machine operator who is forced to have machine down-time.

It is common to see signs saying 'No hunting permission' or something similar.

"These agri-businesses are facilitating Outfitters more and more.

[Kurt505]

Honestly, I don’t understand how APOS gets thrown under the bus ievery time an outfitter gets charged? I never hear people crying that registries is still operating after so many people speed and get impaired driving charges? Maybe I’m wrong but isn’t APOS simply nothing more than a registry for Alberta outfitters? And isn’t the fish and game office responsibile for enforcing the laws?

[Albertadiver]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Honestly, I don’t understand how APOS gets thrown under the bus ievery time an outfitter gets charged? I never hear people crying that registries is still operating after so many people speed and get impaired driving charges? Maybe I’m wrong but isn’t APOS simply nothing more than a registry for Alberta outfitters? And isn’t the fish and game office responsibile for enforcing the laws?

https://www.apos.ab.ca/Hunt/CodeOfEthics

This is what bothers me. ^^

They claim to have a code of ethics that all members must abide by, yet there is no action taken when a member like Phil commits blatant crimes and is convicted for them.

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Honestly, I don’t understand how APOS gets thrown under the bus ievery time an outfitter gets charged? I never hear people crying that registries is still operating after so many people speed and get impaired driving charges? Maybe I’m wrong but isn’t APOS simply nothing more than a registry for Alberta outfitters? And isn’t the fish and game office responsibile for enforcing the laws?

APOS is responsible for REGUALTING the Outfitters in Alberta. It is right in their mandate. F&W does enforce the laws but once an Outfitter is convicted there should be repercussions through APOS as well. How can someone be convicted of so many violations and yet remain in good standing. Even the President of APOS has been convicted of violations. If you read APOS's charter, which I see is no longer posted on their website, you will see they are no coming anywhere close to doing what they agreed to when the Regulation of Outfitters was turned over to them from the Province.

I see Albertadriver posted the link to "Code of Ethics" and while it provides for sanctions,

All violations of the APOS Code of Ethics may be subject to a penalty ranging from letters of reprimand, to fines, to temporary or permanent forfeiture of allocations, to the suspension or loss of an outfitter guide permit and/or guide designation.

I have yet to ever see it happen.

About APOS and Alberta's Outfitting Industry
The Alberta Professional Outfitters Society (APOS) is a not for profit, Delegated Administrative Organization (DAO), administering the outfitted-hunting industry in Alberta. Established in 1997, it is an arms-length, self-funded, legal entity with the purpose of delivering services traditionally handled by government.
There are over 500 member Outfitter-Guides and 1600 Guides registered through APOS that provide big game, waterfowl and upland bird game hunts to several thousand clients each year. You can access the Member Directory here.
Alberta’s outfitting industry is an active participant in the province’s conservation community and contributes considerable funding to aerial surveying, conservation projects and research initiatives, through our Wildlife Management Fund, in addition to the significant contributions of time, money and services donated by individual outfitters.

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Honestly, I don’t understand how APOS gets thrown under the bus ievery time an outfitter gets charged? I never hear people crying that registries is still operating after so many people speed and get impaired driving charges? Maybe I’m wrong but isn’t APOS simply nothing more than a registry for Alberta outfitters? And isn’t the fish and game office responsibile for enforcing the laws?

Easily, the most well known poacher in Alberta is on their board of directors. That tells you what APOS is about.

[Torkdiesel]

So 4 charges in the end, not nearly as dramatic as the lynch mob was hoping for I’m guessing.

I’m sure Phil is happy to see this chapter of his live over, and some of the decisions he made that came back to haunt him will surely not be repeated.

There is always two sides to every story, this one is no different.


I will add the speculation and jealousy from some of the members here is nothing short of astonishing.

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

So 4 charges in the end, not nearly as dramatic as the lynch mob was hoping for I’m guessing.

I’m sure Phil is happy to see this chapter of his live over, and some of the decisions he made that came back to haunt him will surely not be repeated.

There is always two sides to every story, this one is no different.


I will add the speculation and jealousy from some of the members here is nothing short of astonishing.

Tork, you are talking out of your hat. Re-read the list of charges and convictions. There were 4 under the Alberta Act and a number more under the Migratory game act. There are not two sides to this story, he did the deed and got convicted and shooting out the window of a vehicle and leaving dozens of ducks unretrieved, among other things are not just a bad decision.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Tork, you are talking out of your hat. Re-read the list of charges and convictions. There were 4 under the Alberta Act and a number more under the Migratory game act. There are not two sides to this story, he did the deed and got convicted and shooting out the window of a vehicle and leaving dozens of ducks unretrieved, among other things are not just a bad decision.

I find it interesting that the outfitters on board are quick to excuse each others transgressions as just a small blip. It happened for The gunslinger, now it's happening for Phil. It's like these things go on all the time and it's no big deal.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Dean2

APOS is responsible for REGUALTING the Outfitters in Alberta. It is right in their mandate. F&W does enforce the laws but once an Outfitter is convicted there should be repercussions through APOS as well. How can someone be convicted of so many violations and yet remain in good standing. Even the President of APOS has been convicted of violations. If you read APOS's charter, which I see is no longer posted on their website, you will see they are no coming anywhere close to doing what they agreed to when the Regulation of Outfitters was turned over to them from the Province.

I see Albertadriver posted the link to "Code of Ethics" and while it provides for sanctions, I have yet to ever see it happen.

It’s up to the courts to decide the punishment, if they say the offender gets a slap on the wrist then APOS says they want the allocations forfeited, then I imagine there will be a legal court battle to take them?

I’m not defending APOS, I’m questioning the real power they posses as I imagine you can’t just take someone’s property without a legal process, it would be like registries taking away your license because they felt the courts never did enough. Where I have a problem is with weak sentences handed down by the courts. If a court says any repeat offender loses their outfitting priveledges permanently, then there isn’t anything the outfitter or APOS can do about it. If the court says they get a slap on the wrist, but APOS says we want your license, then I’m almost positive there will be a legal battle to follow. I’m not sure APOS has the money or resources to be in a constant court battle? I’m just spitballing here as I have no inside info on the matter, but I think it’s more complicated than we see.

I could be totally wrong though.

[fishnguy]

Originally Posted by Joe Black

Feel bad for his family that is now dealing with this due to his greed.

If it is true that the dude went on another sheep hunt earlier this season, something tells me they are doing alright. Otherwise, he would not have a family at this point, in my opinion. Zero doubt in my mind my wife would leave me if we would be dealing with something like this and I was out hunting. Maybe that’s just my perspective though.

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

There is always two sides to every story, this one is no different.

Lol. Really? There are two sides, no doubt. That’s why there was a process in court to hear both sides and and the verdict delivered based on those stories and evidence to support them. Quite astonishing, in your words.

I always tend to give you a benefit of the doubt when I read your posts about outfitters breaking the law or defending them otherwise. Perhaps I won’t anymore because this last post of yours is really ridiculous.

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

I find it interesting that the outfitters on board are quick to excuse each others transgressions as just a small blip. It happened for The gunslinger, now it's happening for Phil. It's like these things go on all the time and it's no big deal.

Agreed. I use to have a fair amount of respect for Tork and enjoyed his posts generally. I even understood him and other guides standing up for Cahoon prior to the convictions. The fact that he can in any way defend, excuse or downplay this type of indefensible behaviour now that Cahoon has been convicted makes me also question whether this is so wide spread in the Outfitting industry that it doesn't even rate as an issue to them. Sure hope that isn't the case and that it is just an overabundance of loyalty to a friend.

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Tork, you are talking out of your hat. Re-read the list of charges and convictions. There were 4 under the Alberta Act and a number more under the Migratory game act. There are not two sides to this story, he did the deed and got convicted and shooting out the window of a vehicle and leaving dozens of ducks unretrieved, among other things are not just a bad decision.

You’re right, I accidentally left out the unknown number of charges per duck, I apologize.

I will however disagree with the two sides to every story. To me there’s a giant difference between shooting a deer out of your truck window on the side of the highway, and letting your 9 year old use the door as a rest at the farm to shoot her first gopher. But that’s only my opinion of course.

[WhiteTailAB]

You know, if one outfitter is doing illegal acts and the other outfitters are still supporting that one outfitter, maybe those outfitters that support the criminal outfitter are in fact no different and perhaps one day they'll find themselves in court too. Birds of a feather.....

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Agreed. I use to have a fair amount of respect for Tork and enjoyed his posts generally. I even understood him and other guides standing up for Cahoon prior to the convictions. The fact that he can in any way defend, excuse or downplay this type of indefensible behaviour now that Cahoon has been convicted makes me also question whether this is so wide spread in the Outfitting industry that it doesn't even rate as an issue to them. Sure hope that isn't the case and that it is just an overabundance of loyalty to a friend.

I’m sorry if you misunderstood what I meant. Phil broke the law, and was convicted for that. He’ll pay his fine, deal with the consequences personally, and miss out on a couple years of hunting.
Some of his actions warranted the charges, some of them did not in my opinion.

I certainly have never condoned any type of poaching or breaking the law, but I’m also a realist.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

So 4 charges in the end, not nearly as dramatic as the lynch mob was hoping for I’m guessing.

I’m sure Phil is happy to see this chapter of his live over, and some of the decisions he made that came back to haunt him will surely not be repeated.

There is always two sides to every story, this one is no different.


I will add the speculation and jealousy from some of the members here is nothing short of astonishing.

Well you certainly did not disappoint with your post.

I will add the speculation from some members was proven to be correct in a court of law judging my the punishment handed down.
Good to hear those "poor decisions" will surely not be repeated. Very rarely to criminals re-offend . ps, that was sarcasm

As for this jealousy you speak of, where is it? I sure haven't seen any of which you refer to. I may see is a hint of elation from some due to the fact many believe it was arrogance sitting atop a pretty tall horse that has been brought back to reality and was found guilty of some pretty serious charges.

Myself, I deplore an over-inflated ego. No use for it. Might even get a tiny bit of satisfaction watching one deflated....
Hopefully lesson learned