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  #1  
Old 11-24-2017, 09:02 AM
SlightlyDistracting SlightlyDistracting is online now
 
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Default Remington going bankrupt?

I hope not.
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/i...-20171117.html
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  #2  
Old 11-24-2017, 09:07 AM
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Not surprised. With all the negetive reviews regarding the trigger issues.
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Old 11-24-2017, 10:14 AM
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I wonder if gun sales have slowed for all manufacturers, what with Obama out of the white house.

As for Remington, their quality has really slipped off. The model 700 was a quality gun with a solid reputation. In an effort to attract sales at a lower price point they brought out the SPS version of it. The quality of an SPS doesn't even come close to the quality of an older 700.

Same for the express line of 870 shotguns. IMO the Wingmaster 870's are a much nicer gun, but if you look in their catalog, there are more versions of the Express than the Wingmaster. It's like Remington is pushing consumers to their cheaper line of shotguns.

IMO, Remington has made decisions that have damaged their company's reputation. The chickens are coming home to roost.
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Old 11-24-2017, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by LKILR View Post
Not surprised. With all the negetive reviews regarding the trigger issues.
x 2 agreed

I am sure it didn't help them .
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Old 11-24-2017, 10:23 AM
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Remington won't disappear. Think Winchester. Some other company will pick up the pieces when they can buy the brand for 10 cents on the dollar, and continue producing the firearms. If they are in trouble it's because of bad management. They should have produced more "black rifles".
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Old 11-24-2017, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by LKILR View Post
Not surprised. With all the negetive reviews regarding the trigger issues.

They've also had a lot of quality issues in general the last few years too.
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Old 11-24-2017, 10:32 AM
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Same thing will happen with Remington as it did with GMC and Chrysler, big government bailout with, giant corporate bonuses! Buy stock while you can folks because Remington ainít going nowhere! Iím definitely gona keep my eye on their stocks, and hopefully buy in! The U.S government will never let a benchmark company like that fold, itís too significant to their whole country folding, and this shows weakness to all other countries! Just my rant, Iíll probably be proven wrong in the future!
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Old 11-24-2017, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Okotokian View Post
Remington won't disappear. Think Winchester. Some other company will pick up the pieces when they can buy the brand for 10 cents on the dollar, and continue producing the firearms. If they are in trouble it's because of bad management. They should have produced more "black rifles".
Browning owns Winchester. The gun world is a small place.

Yes Trump has slowed the gun and ammunition hoarding and the market is having some adjustment issues.
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Old 11-24-2017, 10:53 AM
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Yeah the endorsements of long dead gun writers don't mean much when people have to ship their rifles away for months due to a recall, and those rifles couldn't compete with guns that cost a third as much anyway.

"Here's your new 700, you might have an AD, you will have to give it back for 6 months, and it'll need $1000 worth of gunsmith work just to shoot with an axis" ...great sales pitch
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Old 11-24-2017, 10:57 AM
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Same thing will happen with Remington as it did with GMC and Chrysler, big government bailout with, giant corporate bonuses! Buy stock while you can folks because Remington ainít going nowhere! Iím definitely gona keep my eye on their stocks, and hopefully buy in! The U.S government will never let a benchmark company like that fold, itís too significant to their whole country folding, and this shows weakness to all other countries! Just my rant, Iíll probably be proven wrong in the future!
Although that is in the relm of the possible, I don't believe that the US Govt would intervene by propping up a recreational firearms manufacturer. For one it's bad optics and second, as already stated, the Rem name could be bought for cents on the $ by some other weapons manufacturer and third, let the market go where it may go without government interference.
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Old 11-24-2017, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by LKILR View Post
Not surprised. With all the negetive reviews regarding the trigger issues.


And every other issue they have in their junk under $1,000.00 rifles.
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Old 11-24-2017, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by 3blade View Post
Yeah the endorsements of long dead gun writers don't mean much when people have to ship their rifles away for months due to a recall, and those rifles couldn't compete with guns that cost a third as much anyway.

"Here's your new 700, you might have an AD, you will have to give it back for 6 months, and it'll need $1000 worth of gunsmith work just to shoot with an axis" ...great sales pitch
The endorsements of gun writers don't mean much because i think most reading is done on internet discussions forums. Do people even read or buy gun rags anymore? I would rather get personal accounts from regular joes rather than the Ron Spomer's or Dick Metcalfs of this world who get wined and dined and sent on hunts by the firearms companies.
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Old 11-24-2017, 12:33 PM
SlightlyDistracting SlightlyDistracting is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3blade View Post
Yeah the endorsements of long dead gun writers don't mean much when people have to ship their rifles away for months due to a recall, and those rifles couldn't compete with guns that cost a third as much anyway.

"Here's your new 700, you might have an AD, you will have to give it back for 6 months, and it'll need $1000 worth of gunsmith work just to shoot with an axis" ...great sales pitch
Lmao. Shoot with sn axis. Bahaha.
At least I wont look ugly doing it.
I have owned at least two of each
I have never owned a savage axis I would take over a 700. Never

Last edited by SlightlyDistracting; 11-24-2017 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 11-24-2017, 12:44 PM
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Now, if I'm not mistaken Marlin is owned by Remington. How will this affect them? Hopefully the Marlin sector would get picked up by a company with good quality control that would return them to the quality firearms they used to be!
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Old 11-24-2017, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LKILR View Post

Not surprised. With all the negetive reviews regarding the trigger issues.

Trigger issues are just the tip of the iceberg for Remington's problems !

I'm guessing by 2020 (or thereabouts), Remington won't exist anymore.
It will have gone bankrupt, and/or absorbed by another company.
.
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Old 11-24-2017, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by morinj View Post
Same thing will happen with Remington as it did with GMC and Chrysler, big government bailout with, giant corporate bonuses! Buy stock while you can folks because Remington ainít going nowhere! Iím definitely gona keep my eye on their stocks, and hopefully buy in! The U.S government will never let a benchmark company like that fold, itís too significant to their whole country folding, and this shows weakness to all other countries! Just my rant, Iíll probably be proven wrong in the future!
If you held GM stock before the bail-out, you would have lost it all.
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Old 11-24-2017, 03:03 PM
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If you held GM stock before the bail-out, you would have lost it all.
You are right, but after the bailout, I was looking to purchase Gm stocks for next to nothing, but there was none available, Iím not sure how the markets work but I would guess that they were all bought out by larger corporations! The rich get richer!
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  #18  
Old 11-24-2017, 03:19 PM
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Remington + Marlin = junk !!!
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Old 11-24-2017, 03:24 PM
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I wouldn't put a whole lotta worry in this article. Gun sales soared during the obama years, people have chilled since Trump got in so it is a bit of a dig at him. Such are the ways of the MSM, they won't report on the industries that are building steam since he took over.
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Old 11-24-2017, 03:48 PM
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Remington Outdoors is owned and controlled by Cereberus Capital, a private equity and capital investment firm.

Under what possible scenario would a private equity capital firm allow one of it's investments to go "bankrupt" ......... and which "creditor" do you think is going to call in it's debt and allow it's investment to default?

I would suggest that Cereberus may have done this a time or two before as they specialise in addressing distressed organisations.

It's more likely they will be hunting for another dance partner like Browning or someone like that so they can exchange shares and continue to do what they do, use investors cash to grow wealth through bailing out distressed companies in exchange for buying/trading into organisation with strong fundamentals.

The fact that Remington, as an operating company, took loans brokered through them just shows you what a snake does when you exhale.

Private Equity + Capital Management = the perfect trap.
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Old 11-24-2017, 04:06 PM
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Not a surprise if they do. Remington started the whole ďdummying downĒ phase in the gun industry starting in the 50ís and forcing all to follow suit or not sell product. Unfortunately as time has gone on they have continued on that slope and shooters have accepted it and even embraced it in the name of saving a few $. I have very few newer firearms in my ownership preferring guns from an era where pride and quality of workmanship and materials meant something. I only own one Remington though I had several in the past and aside from the one I own now those others always left me broken down in the middle of a tournament or waterfowl hunt. I havenít purchased a new Remington since 1987 and never will again.

Last edited by The Spank; 11-24-2017 at 04:23 PM.
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  #22  
Old 11-24-2017, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EZM View Post
Remington Outdoors is owned and controlled by Cereberus Capital, a private equity and capital investment firm.
In 2015 Ceberus announced they were going to spin Freedom Group which own Remington, Marlin, DPMS, AAC and Bushmaster out of the main fund due to investor pressure. It's difficult to track down exactly what the status of that process is but that seems consistent with this from the article:


S&P expects ďa heightened risk of a restructuringĒ of Remingtonís $575 million senior secured loan and asset-based lending facility, which it is supposed to pay back in 2019.


If they have a bunch of secured debt in place to finance that move they may not be able to use assets from their other funds to service it. It's getting a lot tougher for companies that aren't looking at declining sales and a credit downgrade to raise money via bonds right now. There may be only so much that Fienberg can do to keep the wolves at bay here.
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Old 11-24-2017, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by 209x50 View Post
Browning owns Winchester. The gun world is a small place.

Yes Trump has slowed the gun and ammunition hoarding and the market is having some adjustment issues.
Actually Herstal owns both Browning and Winchester.
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Old 11-24-2017, 05:10 PM
midgetwaiter midgetwaiter is offline
 
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Here's a better article that also points out Vista Outdoor got a downgrade this week as well. Doesn't sound like they are as far in trouble though.

https://www.thestreet.com/story/1440...owngrades.html

Vista owns:
Bushnell
Tasco
Savage
Federal
CCI
American Eagle
Alliant
Estate
Speer
Uncle Mikes
Butler Creek
Weaver
Simmons
Millet
Blazer
RCBS
Hoppes
Gunslick
Otters
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Old 11-24-2017, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midgetwaiter View Post
In 2015 Ceberus announced they were going to spin Freedom Group which own Remington, Marlin, DPMS, AAC and Bushmaster out of the main fund due to investor pressure. It's difficult to track down exactly what the status of that process is but that seems consistent with this from the article:


S&P expects ďa heightened risk of a restructuringĒ of Remingtonís $575 million senior secured loan and asset-based lending facility, which it is supposed to pay back in 2019.


If they have a bunch of secured debt in place to finance that move they may not be able to use assets from their other funds to service it. It's getting a lot tougher for companies that aren't looking at declining sales and a credit downgrade to raise money via bonds right now. There may be only so much that Fienberg can do to keep the wolves at bay here.
Because they are holding the primary equity position, there is no way they will let this company go down to the point of bankruptcy or receivership. At that point they get nothing back on their investment. They also stand to destroy the value of their fund and, of course, their perception.

I can guarantee they will shop it and drop it, likely at a loss on face value, but will sell it off.

They may need to exchange viable securities with the buyer to sweeten the pot.

"you buy Remington, at the cost of the debt, plus X, and we will give you X plus a multiplier in shares/funds of Y.

A classic private equity capital company strategy to recover as much on any poor investments and under performing equities.

Unfortunately, I've worked in Private equity organisations over the last 5-6 years and they extract, extract, extract and find any way they can to recover distressed investment.

But you are right the wolves will have their meat.
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  #26  
Old 11-24-2017, 06:55 PM
SlightlyDistracting SlightlyDistracting is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midgetwaiter View Post
Here's a better article that also points out Vista Outdoor got a downgrade this week as well. Doesn't sound like they are as far in trouble though.

https://www.thestreet.com/story/1440...owngrades.html

Vista owns:
Bushnell
Tasco
Savage
Federal
CCI
American Eagle
Alliant
Estate
Speer
Uncle Mikes
Butler Creek
Weaver
Simmons
Millet
Blazer
RCBS
Hoppes
Gunslick
Otters
Better go buy 10 bricks of primers. Lol
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Old 11-24-2017, 06:56 PM
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all the Remington haters. For all the millions and millions of problem free, accurate and reliable firearms they have produced over the years. I've owned many, still have a half dozen, and not had a single issue, ever, with any one of them. 'oh, oh, scary trigger, AD, run away!!'. Too funny. I've owned Tikka, Sako, Browning, CZ, Marlin, Savage, Winchester, Colt, Ruger, and a few others as well. Same as I've owned Ford, Dodge, GM, Toyota, Nissan, VW, Porsche, Audi, Subaru, Mitsubishi, and a few others. Change the oil, look after your gear, and don't be such a 'brand' fan.

The only thing I wouldn't own anymore is a dodge. And only because I don't want to identify with those guys with flat brimmed hats, oakleys, and tribal tattoos on their necks.....
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Old 11-24-2017, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
Actually Herstal owns both Browning and Winchester.
Browning has been part of the Herstal Group since the late seventies, while Winchester joined in the nineties. This info has been on the Browning website for years.
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Old 11-24-2017, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by gtr View Post
Browning has been part of the Herstal Group since the late seventies, while Winchester joined in the nineties. This info has been on the Browning website for years.
The bottom line, is that Herstal owns both Browning and Winchester, and both companies market firearms made by other companies.
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Old 11-24-2017, 08:19 PM
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Default Silly question

Do action manufacturers that make Remington 700 clones have to pay a licesnsing fee? Seems to be a booming business in that market?
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