shut down Thread Citing Powley as reason

[savagencounter]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Thanks, much of that is my understanding as well wrt the 160 kms radius, etc. My thinking was that this decision won't put more hunters in the bush as they are already hunting. As far as I know, the Metis living outside of their respective communities still had to identify with one of those communities. I suppose then that the biggest concern is waiving the 160 km radius and having Metis hunters migrating to areas that they never hunted before......correct?

Yes that is correct. As well as many more who where not part of a settlement.

[HunterDave]

Up this way it's going to be interesting if Metis decide to leave their traditional hunting grounds and start hunting crown land that Natives around here have always considered their traditional hunting grounds.....lol. Down in Southern Alberta how much hunt able crown land is around? Will it impact draws, etc? I'm not so sure that there will be a huge impact. There's always the concern that some may perhaps abuse things and take more than what's needed though.

[newguy]

Originally Posted by JD 848

My family has plenty of native blood in it,Phil Fontaine and I have the same grandfathers way back,my mom was a Fontaine and my grandmother was pure micmaq or micmaw either way it is what it is.

I don't pay a lot of attention to all this fuss about being metis or native,i can get my papers but why,i don't need to live off the land or have more rights than the rest off Canadians who hunt,i spent my whole life working outside,bush ,logging,diamond drilling,guiding,piplines and applied for my tags to hunt like the rest,but if I don't kill I am not going to starve,i have grown pass the point of having to kill to prove I am a hunter.i did that part 30 years ago,so my passion is the outdoors and know one can take that from me.


Being a hunter and bushman is a very personal thing that can't be given to you you by any court,thousands of hours learning,feeding,bedding,movement at all times of the year,where they have crossed for hundreds of years and will do it for another thousand years from season to season ,so how can this deal in court really make my life as a bushman come to an end,those 600,000 are not all bushmans,lucky if there's 6000,that are true hunters,there not allowed to hunt on private land or parks and if your worried about the amount of game that will be taken your about 10 years to late, at least where I live close to northern Ontario and Manitoba populations are down as bad as 90 percent.

If I was to live way back and need to live of the land I may take this deal up,but I think that if you need the meat to survive you can take it,it's either I eat or jail.much cheaper to let me take a deer or 2,but that's if I ever change my way of living an the odds of that are slim to none,why would I .

I can still hunt and fish plus there's way more than 600,000 natives in this country and yes some do shot more than others but I can name 20 different groups who out poach any native in this country,just look at the large land owners,the ones who stole Johnny Cashes wardrobe.

I know one thing if you think the poachers in this country and are taking game illegally,it's not a native or a metis.i live in ,southern Manitoba and I see maybe one native in town once a month and everything has been shot to hell by other groups who pray all week and twice on sunday and poach the other six days a week,plus cash is not an issue,so fines mean nothing,plus not all these people are poachers either, but when you own 20000 acres and you have to drive 2 hours to see a track,something is wrong.I

f you sat down with any CO or fish and wildlife, officer they will tell you they find little hunting pressure from metis or natives,but they do know who is poaching that's for darn sure.

I find it funny how nobody acknowledged your post here. It's a great read and your obviously someone who knows his stuff.

Your last paragraph about FW find little hunting pressure from Metis or Natives is especially true. I've talked to a few and they agree 100%..

[Newellknik]

I couldn't agree more. NG , I spent 20 yrs hunting all of South
MB. Never a problem with natives of any per centage .
We called the bad asses the polka dot bandits back then . They are not
Quite as bad in Southern Alberta but they are stepping out
Especially the young ones . Hut would have ever guessed .

[crownb]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

I spent the day on the road. This far north, CBC is the most reliable signal so guess who I listened to.

Anyway, they talked alot about this court ruling, interviewing key players and experts on the matter.

From what I heard this settles nothing. What it does is clarify Metis status as natives and therefore subject to the same rights as natives.

The details will have to be worked out is subsequent court cases.

I have mixed feelings about it all. On the one hand I'm glad. I've seen close up how the government deals with Metis, and non status natives and it's unjust to say the least. On the other hand, I've seen government run rough shod over the rights of many others who have no political clout.

Still the whole issue creates two classes of citizens and I think that works against the best interests of all concerned.

From a legal point of view it seems to me that there is only one way to proceed. And that is to honor Canada's commitments and promises.

I suspect that in the end that will do more harm then good, but a promise is a promise. A contract legal and binding.

Adding one injustice on top of another solves nothing. It's long past due, that Canada live up to the contracts and promises it made to natives and their offspring and that includes Metis.

Times have changed, the world is a whole different place from when those contracts and promises were made, they need to be addressed and updated, this is to much.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by lilsundance

Nube I replied. But if you research back 99% of all Native/Metis rights threads has ended up being locked due to people not being able discuss in a rational manner and name calling and mud slinging ensues. What's the point of that when we will all have to wait to see how the Government is going react. At that point we can react and send letters to our representatives and the opposition. I will leave this open if you guys can keep it civil with no mud slinging.

I have to disagree with you when you say that we should wait till the government enact new laws and then we can react. Whats wrong with voicing our concerns before new laws are written? At least that way the government might take into consideration the concerns that people have before it's too late to do anything about it.
I do agree that comments should remain civil.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by waterninja

I have to disagree with you when you say that we should wait till the government enact new laws and then we can react. Whats wrong with voicing our concerns before new laws are written? At least that way the government might take into consideration the concerns that people have before it's too late to do anything about it.
I do agree that comments should remain civil.

We should voice our concerns, but do so to our MPs who actually have some influence as what the government will do. You can discuss this all that you want on this forum, and it will accomplish absolutely nothing. As to what the government will do, with Trudeau in the Liberals in power, I am expecting the worst. Thanks to his father we already have a constitution where all Canadians are not equal under the law, and I don't expect any better from the son.

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

We should voice our concerns, but do so to our MPs who actually have some influence as what the government will do. You can discuss this all that you want on this forum, and it will accomplish absolutely nothing. As to what the government will do, with Trudeau in the Liberals in power, I am expecting the worst. Thanks to his father we already have a constitution where all Canadians are not equal under the law, and I don't expect any better from the son.

I agree, Trudeau panders to minorities while ignoring everyone else when he makes decisions.

[Sporty]

I think it's important to note that the government will need to enact legislation for this ruling which will likely take years so there won't suddenly be 600k people out hunting. The ruling also doesn't mean that Metis and non status Aboriginals are going to get the same rights as First Nations, they won't get treaty rights.

http://apihtawikosisan.com/2016/04/r...-daniels-case/

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Originally Posted by Sporty

I think it's important to note that the government will need to enact legislation for this ruling which will likely take years so there won't suddenly be 600k people out hunting. The ruling also doesn't mean that Metis and non status Aboriginals are going to get the same rights as First Nations, they won't get treaty rights.

http://apihtawikosisan.com/2016/04/r...-daniels-case/

Answers all questions and should put this to rest!!!!
thanks for the link!!

Neil

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow

Answers all questions and should put this to rest!!!!
thanks for the link!!

Neil

Give Trudeau a chance, and I am sure that he can make a real mess of things. He will do whatever he can to buy votes.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by crownb

Times have changed, the world is a whole different place from when those contracts and promises were made, they need to be addressed and updated, this is to much.

Agreed. But first the original contracts must be honored.

It's unreasonable to ask natives to approve amendments to their treaties when the original wording of those treaty's has been violated so completely and so consistently for so many years. And in light of the fact that this continues to this day.

Had those promises, those treaties been honor from the beginning, I doubt very much that we would have this problem.

All. ALL thenative people I know are very intelligent, very reasonable, generous people who care about the world around them more then most non natives do.

No doubt someone will pop up and accuse me of not knowing any native people. What very few here know is that I grew up with native people.
Today, most of my friends have native heritage to some degree.
I've seen the discrimination up close and personal. I've been a victim of that discrimination even though I have no native heritage that I know of.
Just being friends with natives makes one a target.

Government is another matter. We've all been lied to by government representatives many times. It's not hard to figure out that if government does not keep it's promises to us today, they've most certainly been doing it to natives since the day Canada became a country.

[albertabighorn]

Originally Posted by Sporty

I think it's important to note that the government will need to enact legislation for this ruling which will likely take years so there won't suddenly be 600k people out hunting. The ruling also doesn't mean that Metis and non status Aboriginals are going to get the same rights as First Nations, they won't get treaty rights.

http://apihtawikosisan.com/2016/04/r...-daniels-case/

This is correct as far as i can tell. They do not have the treaty rights and i doubt the Gov could afford to give that to them.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by Sporty

I think it's important to note that the government will need to enact legislation for this ruling which will likely take years so there won't suddenly be 600k people out hunting. The ruling also doesn't mean that Metis and non status Aboriginals are going to get the same rights as First Nations, they won't get treaty rights.

http://apihtawikosisan.com/2016/04/r...-daniels-case/

That might be true, but you can bet that charges won't be pursued if Metis decide to "jump the gun" on a lot of rights that they know are in the works. This is not the first time something like this has happened.

[purgatory.sv]

You are correct .but most that I have had interaction with were normal.



Not like me.

[Xbolt7mm]

Originally Posted by dmcbride

I agree, Trudeau panders to minorities while ignoring everyone else when he makes decisions.

You agree to a one sided comment from a biased opinion,, that's all

[Xbolt7mm]

Originally Posted by albertabighorn

This is correct as far as i can tell. They do not have the treaty rights and i doubt the Gov could afford to give that to them.

They do have treaty rights,, all of them,, it's called script,,, each individual got awarded there own individual reserve chunk of land or the cash equivilant. Those with land had it taken away as " civilization" crept into their area and were re- issued script farther out. Once civilization reached them again their land was taken again and they got nothing.. Learn your history before you judge people.Anyone know why the federal government even acknowledges the Metis for what they did in Canadian history. Maybe Colonel Custer if he wasn't wiped out could tell you what the Metis did to avenge his death once the Indians fled to Canada and the rcmp couldn't catch them on their own. Luis refused to help the government anymore so they hung him a a traitor. Learn your history people at least the Metis tried to help the government.. More than I can say about status or most white folk. They never offered script for nothing people,,, the Metis earned it.

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

I spent the day on the road. This far north, CBC is the most reliable signal so guess who I listened to.

Anyway, they talked alot about this court ruling, interviewing key players and experts on the matter.

From what I heard this settles nothing. What it does is clarify Metis status as natives and therefore subject to the same rights as natives.

The details will have to be worked out is subsequent court cases.

I have mixed feelings about it all. On the one hand I'm glad. I've seen close up how the government deals with Metis, and non status natives and it's unjust to say the least. On the other hand, I've seen government run rough shod over the rights of many others who have no political clout.

Still the whole issue creates two classes of citizens and I think that works against the best interests of all concerned.

From a legal point of view it seems to me that there is only one way to proceed. And that is to honor Canada's commitments and promises.

I suspect that in the end that will do more harm then good, but a promise is a promise. A contract legal and binding.

Adding one injustice on top of another solves nothing. It's long past due, that Canada live up to the contracts and promises it made to natives and their offspring and that includes Metis.

Just a comment on the bolded statement: that is better than 5 or 6 classes of citizens isn't it??

[Camdelle]

Originally Posted by Xbolt7mm

They do have treaty rights,, all of them,, it's called script,,, each individual got awarded there own individual reserve chunk of land or the cash equivilant. Those with land had it taken away as " civilization" crept into their area and were re- issued script farther out. Once civilization reached them again their land was taken again and they got nothing.. Learn your history before you judge people.Anyone know why the federal government even acknowledges the Metis for what they did in Canadian history. Maybe Colonel Custer if he wasn't wiped out could tell you what the Metis did to avenge his death once the Indians fled to Canada and the rcmp couldn't catch them on their own. Luis refused to help the government anymore so they hung him a a traitor. Learn your history people at least the Metis tried to help the government.. More than I can say about status or most white folk. They never offered script for nothing people,,, the Metis earned it.

The whole system was a complete and utter fraud. Most natives that took script ended up with nothing as the system was setup to completely defraud them.....

But that was then. This is now. Im not sure what the answer is.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

Just a comment on the bolded statement: that is better than 5 or 6 classes of citizens isn't it??

And one class of citizens is better still.

[Sporty]

Originally Posted by Xbolt7mm

They do have treaty rights,, all of them,, it's called script,,, each individual got awarded there own individual reserve chunk of land or the cash equivilant. Those with land had it taken away as " civilization" crept into their area and were re- issued script farther out. Once civilization reached them again their land was taken again and they got nothing.. Learn your history before you judge people.Anyone know why the federal government even acknowledges the Metis for what they did in Canadian history. Maybe Colonel Custer if he wasn't wiped out could tell you what the Metis did to avenge his death once the Indians fled to Canada and the rcmp couldn't catch them on their own. Luis refused to help the government anymore so they hung him a a traitor. Learn your history people at least the Metis tried to help the government.. More than I can say about status or most white folk. They never offered script for nothing people,,, the Metis earned it.

Scrip wasn't anything like treaty rights, it was a chunk of land or cash, many took the cash while many were defrauded out of the land. Some might be able to seek compensation now for the defrauding of the land. Metis were important with the formation of western Canada and aiding the government with the treaty process for First Nations but Metis and Inuit will never have treaty rights since they'll never fall under the Indian Act. The supreme court has determined that Metis means any mixed blood of Native and European though, not just the Red River Metis, opening up a huge can of worms.

Considering 50% of the population in Western Canada alone has Native in them there will never be rights afforded to them the same as status Aboriginals nor should they be afforded the same rights.

[elkhunter11]

Considering 50% of the population in Western Canada alone has Native in them there will never be rights afforded to them the same as status Aboriginals nor should they be afforded the same rights.

Every Canadian citizen should have exactly the same rights, and should be equal under the law. Any special rights based on race, are racist by definition, but then so is our very constitution.

[Xbolt7mm]

Originally Posted by Sporty

Scrip wasn't anything like treaty rights, it was a chunk of land or cash, many took the cash while many were defrauded out of the land. Some might be able to seek compensation now for the defrauding of the land. Metis were important with the formation of western Canada and aiding the government with the treaty process for First Nations but Metis and Inuit will never have treaty rights since they'll never fall under the Indian Act. The supreme court has determined that Metis means any mixed blood of Native and European though, not just the Red River Metis, opening up a huge can of worms.

Considering 50% of the population in Western Canada alone has Native in them there will never be rights afforded to them the same as status Aboriginals nor should they be afforded the same rights.

My comment was ment as, they were given treaty rights, all the Metis in that area, not the same as status but their own type of treaty rights which were taken away from them, once again,,, not the same as what status received but they where given things that other identifiable groups were not, call it what you want but it was still taken away from them.

[Sporty]

Originally Posted by Xbolt7mm

My comment was ment as, they were given treaty rights, all the Metis in that area, not the same as status but their own type of treaty rights which were taken away from them, once again,,, not the same as what status received but they where given things that other identifiable groups were not, call it what you want but it was still taken away from them.

IMO the distinction is important, especially in light of this ruling as there are misconceptions about what it means from all sides. Scrip wasn't treaty rights and it's important for everyone to know what it actually was. Listen, I'm Metis and I'm ****ed off at this ruling because historically, Metis defined themselves as Metis not "Indians" including Louis Riel himself. He and my ancestors are likely rolling over in their graves over this.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by lilsundance

Nube I replied. But if you research back 99% of all Native/Metis rights threads has ended up being locked due to people not being able discuss in a rational manner and name calling and mud slinging ensues. What's the point of that when we will all have to wait to see how the Government is going react. At that point we can react and send letters to our representatives and the opposition. I will leave this open if you guys can keep it civil with no mud slinging.

And that's how it should be , civil, a discussion in which not all are going to agree with but keep things respectful.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Every Canadian citizen should have exactly the same rights, and should be equal under the law. Any special rights based on race, are racist by definition, but then so is our very constitution.

Ain't that the truth,

How can you say we as a nation that are not racist,equality for all yet promote and directly support rasicm by giving out to only a select group or groups.

Until our poweres that be realize this there will always be rasicm. Sad but true.

[dgl1948]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Agreed. But first the original contracts must be honored.

It's unreasonable to ask natives to approve amendments to their treaties when the original wording of those treaty's has been violated so completely and so consistently for so many years. And in light of the fact that this continues to this day.

Had those promises, those treaties been honor from the beginning, I doubt very much that we would have this problem.

All. ALL thenative people I know are very intelligent, very reasonable, generous people who care about the world around them more then most non natives do.

No doubt someone will pop up and accuse me of not knowing any native people. What very few here know is that I grew up with native people.
Today, most of my friends have native heritage to some degree.
I've seen the discrimination up close and personal. I've been a victim of that discrimination even though I have no native heritage that I know of.
Just being friends with natives makes one a target.

Government is another matter. We've all been lied to by government representatives many times. It's not hard to figure out that if government does not keep it's promises to us today, they've most certainly been doing it to natives since the day Canada became a country.

Would you please be more specific and point out what in the treaties have not been honoured.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Agreed. But first the original contracts must be honored.

It's unreasonable to ask natives to approve amendments to their treaties when the original wording of those treaty's has been violated so completely and so consistently for so many years. And in light of the fact that this continues to this day.

Had those promises, those treaties been honor from the beginning, I doubt very much that we would have this problem.

All. ALL thenative people I know are very intelligent, very reasonable, generous people who care about the world around them more then most non natives do.
No doubt someone will pop up and accuse me of not knowing any native people. What very few here know is that I grew up with native people.
Today, most of my friends have native heritage to some degree.
I've seen the discrimination up close and personal. I've been a victim of that discrimination even though I have no native heritage that I know of.
Just being friends with natives makes one a target.

Government is another matter. We've all been lied to by government representatives many times. It's not hard to figure out that if government does not keep it's promises to us today, they've most certainly been doing it to natives since the day Canada became a country.

That was then and this is now, contracts need to be revisited and rewritten to reflect today not yesterday.
Bold statement saying natives care more than non natives about the world around them. I see people of all walks of life caring and doing more for the world around them, then again I see people from all walks of life doing the opposit too. No one culture is better than the other just have to hope the few bad apples in any culture get weeded out quickly.
I work and have worked with all cultures, as with any Canadian citizen we all see some sort of racism on a day to day basis, worked with good and bad people who all came from different cultures, the ones I have seen to be the best people are the ones that treat all equally, treat all the way they want to be treated, put the team before them and are just great Canadian citizens.

[Big Grey Wolf]

The affect on our hunting resources will be enormous. Hunting seasons are in the fall for a reason, the ungulate population is at the seasonal peak. If you hunt all year their is a enormous impact on the game numbers. When you shoot a cow elk in spring you also kill the unborn calf and destroy the replacement animals.

[Xbolt7mm]

Originally Posted by Sporty

IMO the distinction is important, especially in light of this ruling as there are misconceptions about what it means from all sides. Scrip wasn't treaty rights and it's important for everyone to know what it actually was. Listen, I'm Metis and I'm ****ed off at this ruling because historically, Metis defined themselves as Metis not "Indians" including Louis Riel himself. He and my ancestors are likely rolling over in their graves over this.

Re read,I explained already it was their own version of rights , not the same as status so there's no misconception here at all. I have copies of two separate script documents from my great grand parents. No one will role over in there graves as no one is sayin they are Indians. The status get more rights than any of the other aboriginals, why would the Metis be upset to get the same. Drama drama