Yellow labradors

[hornhead]

a few years ago when i was thinking of getting another dog the first ones i looked at were labs. a BIG soft spot there.

i had a really interesting chat with a breeder who refered to labs as "show labs" and "hunting labs".

he was interested in keeping his dogs like the ones you see in the old pictures and i know what he meant.

long legged and rangy looking.

he wouldn't sell you one unless you intended to hunt with them... too energetic for a house dog.

"show dogs" to him were the big deep chested labs you see mostly.

a very interesting man and he had some great looking labs. somewhere around calgary or strathmore.

not sure about his beliefs tho but his were all registered of course. my last lab was a yellow, big and deep chested and he would go all day. h@ll of a hunter. i told my hunting pard that if denver could drive and find the "secret of the door knob" we'd be left behind.

but then SWMBO saw a pic of a griffon and the rest is history.

keep the pics coming... enjoying this thread ... at least since the game of "DEFINITIONS" has ended.

cheers

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by Skybuster

Ultimately it is a case of symantecs and perspective.

No, it is a case of the word being precisely and clearly defined in Canadian Law and some taking an "I don't care, I will use it how I want to." attitude.

Pretty tough to explain it better than MK2750 did.

[Redfrog]

Eastcoast, weren't you asking about rabbit hunting a while back?/
Do you take your Bassets out for rabbits.
It's legal you know. You're in Alberta and we don't classify rabbits as big game.

[eastcoast]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Eastcoast, weren't you asking about rabbit hunting a while back?/
Do you take your Bassets out for rabbits.
It's legal you know. You're in Alberta and we don't classify rabbits as big game.

it's one of the great ironies in my life I have rabbit dogs and don't use them,they are 5 years old and have never ever hunted and I don't want to train them now as I am afraid they would get on a scent and run away to never be seen again,my wife would ask for a divorce if that were to happen.

next dog I may get is a bird dog though and actually use them to goose hunt,but I will train it when it's a pup,im thinking gordon setter as I think labs and goldens are way too popular and have alot of problems,you really have to do your research on a breeder if you are looking at one.

[Skinnydipper]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Fox res are yellows, and are recognized as such. I just heard of an upcoming breeding that has outstanding potential. A Fox red field trial champ to a black. the pedigrees are full of field champs.
Great looking dogs as well.

Sounds very, very familiar!!

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Skybuster. I really wanted S/G to work for the lesson, but I'm not sure I can wait. As I get older my patience wears thin. I'm not sure how much time I have left. I've started eating my dessert first and stopped buying green bananas.



Here's my stance.

THE ANIMAL PEDIGREE ACT
CHAPTER 13
64. No person shall
(j) without an express statement that the animal’s registration, identification or status as a
purebred is from a jurisdiction other than Canada
and that the animal will not be registered or identified in Canada by the person, sell as registered or
identified, or as eligible to be registered or identified,
or as a purebred, any animal without providing to the
buyer thereof within six months after the sale the animal’s duly transferred certificate of registration or
certificate of identification.
66. (1) Any person who contravenes any provision of
this Act or the regulations
(a) is guilty of an offense punishable on summary conviction and is liable to a fine not
exceeding twenty-five thousand dollars;
or
(b) is guilty of an indictable offence and is liable
to a fine not exceeding fifty thousand dollars

And as I agreed to in more than one post, to sell a dog as purebred, a dog needs to be papered or you are breaking the law. But this is only to sell it.
It does not pertain to anydogs that arent advertised for sale as a pure bred!



You seem to not understand that breeding determins whether or not a dog is purebred. Registration or papering is documented proof only.

In order for your dog to be sold as a Purebred it needs to be papered, but in order for you to paper that dog you must first provide proof as to his lineage and pure blood lines( and that is where pure bred originates), which prooves that the dog is of purebred breeding before it is ever registered or papered.

If you didnt catch that, in order to paper a dog, purebred breeding must be prooven first. So that means Redfrog that the dog in question was purebred prior to being papered. Its cut and dried.

Again most of what you posted here was already covered in a previous post.


Like was stated whether purebred, papered, or a heinze 57, just enjoy your dogs. I know I will.

SG

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by unclebuck

Why all the commotion about a mutt dog. Get a Chesapeake,and you will have the BEST hunting dog & watchdog that money can buy!!!!

You know Uncle Buck I think you may have a point there.

A Chesapeake could look after the farm when you are in town.

And as my grandpa used to tell me, "Don't go duck hunting undergunned"

[Redfrog]

Eastcoast, I hunted rabbits with bassets. They really don't run that fast. and they take no training. Either they hunt or they don't.

Skinnydipper, I'd like to see some of that litter here in Alberta hunting. I'm probably as excited about the breeding as you are even though you got pick of the litter.


I once dreamed of a wee dog who drank some gas from a pan in the yard He ran around in ever diminishing circles barking and barking until he finally just ran out of gas.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Its cut and dried.
SG

And the midday sky is orange - we just can't see it for all the blue.

[Redfrog]

S/G. I hope you're not yelling at me after all the help I gave you. First the name calling now the yelling. What's next stamping your foot?


Anyway, what's your point exactly?

[eastcoast]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Eastcoast, I hunted rabbits with bassets. They really don't run that fast. and they take no training. Either they hunt or they don't.
Skinnydipper, I'd like to see some of that litter here in Alberta hunting. I'm probably as excited about the breeding as you are even though you got pick of the litter.


I once dreamed of a wee dog who drank some gas from a pan in the yard He ran around in ever diminishing circles barking and barking until he finally just ran out of gas.

I know but the whole divorce thing is expensive and time consuming,if I had some land I would but where I go it's either crown land or grazing leases with lots of coyoties,remember I haven't hunted rabbit's in alberta til this year and it has been about 8 years since I hunted rabbit so I got the dogs as pets not intending to hunt at all.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by citori

Lots of people call mine a golden lab !!!!

He's a Yellow Lab and that's that!

And Cat, he's a purebred

That is a VERY cut pup, purebred or not!:>)
I love the big chested labs, always have.
This one was a retrieving machine, from Crozier's back in the 50's!
Cat

[citori]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

That is a VERY cut pup, purebred or not!:>)
I love the big chested labs, always have.
This one was a retrieving machine, from Crozier's back in the 50's!
Cat

Spot on! The Show (English) Labs are my favorite dogs!

[Skinnydipper]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Skinnydipper, I'd like to see some of that litter here in Alberta hunting. I'm probably as excited about the breeding as you are even though you got pick of the litter.

I think you again for you help in leading me towards a solid direction. Time will tell if the pup is as good as the anticipated potential.

[densa44]

What a post. I come from a Lab field trial background. In the old days we tried to hold off the backyard breeders by sticking to the field trial champion as the working standard. It is very hard to get, requires a great dog, expert handler and a lot of $$$. CKC finally allowed a lower standard to accommodate those who thought that field trials had gone too far.

Now what we are seeing is the systematic destruction of this breed as has happened to all the other ones that have become show dogs versus hunting dogs.

Interestingly enough by present dog is a Pudelpointer a non CKC breed but AKC recognized. The breed has small numbers and could not stand unethical breeders. So the solution is not to set standards for the breed (what they are supposed to look like) but stick with field tests. NAVHDA sets standards and you compete against the standard not one another. I think that encourages new handlers to train their dogs and maybe hunt them.

Ginnie is the best dog I've ever owned!

Good luck with this post.

[Redfrog]

No doubt that the introduction of hunt tests allowed a lot more people to compete. I have only competed in the field trials , but have watched the hunt tests. I know my dogs who would be challenged by a field trail would handle the hunt tests without much trouble. The working certificates that 'show' owners try for are even easier.

I guess on the plus side it has mad for a lot more interaction with the dogs. People who would not trial because of the difficulty or commitment required, may have an excellent dog who can hunt and compete in hunt tests. So it gets dog and handler out doing what the dog was bred for and has the two spending a lot more time together.

I guess it's like having a lot of kids playing basketball instead of a few watching the pros.

Any dog you can spend time with is a blessing for both of you regardless of what you do or whether they have papers or not.





I want it all.

[lannie]

This is a very interesting thread. Through my work i had a fellow come up from the U.S. He was very involved with field trials and Black Labs in particular. Very opinionated guy who felt he was quite the authority on Labs(field trials) and Goose hunting. A couple of things he said that really surprised me was that Goose hunting was much easier here due to the fact that we got first crack at all the dumb young geese and by the time they got down south to him they had a university degree in being shot at. The second of many points he made that still "makes me wonder" that is more relevant to this thread is a Black Lab is the smartest of all Labs by a long shot. His justification of this is if you look at the field trials, he claimed 90% of the winners were Black's and the remaining 10% were Chocolates. Yellows were not to be seen in the trials. He also said that a Yellow Lab is not smart enough to find its own tail. I could not comment because i have never watched any field trials. Have a close friend who had a Black that was a fantastic retriever then had a Yellow and it was not even close. They were both great looking dogs. So.... in the trials, is there any truth in this ?

[Redfrog]

Well you know what Forrest Gump says about chocolates

And yellow? well yellow is a state of mind.

If you have a chocolate or yellow and are still reading this, I'm kidding.

Most labs in field trails are blacks. Is that because they do better than the other colors?

I've trained and competed against the other colors of course as well as the other retriever breeds. The blacks consistently do better.

I have seen some yellows do outstanding work. Is it because of the dog or trainer? I've only seen one chocolate that was very good. I beat him in Med Hat as a junior dog. The owner spent the next week training with us and came back the next year as an 'open' dog and smoked everyone.

He did well and because he was a successful chocolate, he was in demand as a stud dog. He bred tons of females, but I have never seen or heard of one of his offspring that did well in the trail game.

The yellows and chocolates do not seem to have the heart that the blacks do.

Again I have seen both chocolates and yellows that could do the work and if yous does that's great. Not all dogs will be field champions but that doesn't mean they aren't great friends or hunting partners.

Anytime spent training or hanging out with a dog is time well spent.

[Fox red lab]

I have never had one of my dogs compete in a field trial but have lots of experience in hunt tests, and anything past the Jr. Hunter or Started Retriever is pretty challenging as that is where hand signal and casting comes into play. That takes a lot of training and I don't imagine it could be easier than field trials just different. Like I said, I've never been to a field trial though.

[Skinnydipper]

Fox Red:

It appears that you have a couple of different colours there. Do you have any comments on there ability according to colour?

[Skybuster]

I had a yellow, he was incredibly powerful. Never went to any trials with him but he was incredibly quick with any training I gave him. I'm getting two chocolates this weekend. I want to believe that color has nothing to do with how well they would do in a field trial cause that's where I'm going regardless. I haven't seen or heard of any scientific evidence showing blacks to be a better trial or hunt dog. I have a difficult time believing it could be, though I suppose there could have been some genetic link between the hair color gene and a training, or smarts, or drive gene. Doesn't seem so, but who knows.

My thought is that the trainer is more likely the reason. Red's example of that chocolate coming back the following year seems to support that. It would be interesting to hear from any trainers that have experience with multiple colored Labs. For me it doesn't really matter. I will be hunting with my dogs, but I doubt I will be doing any shows, or trials.

btw - they are purebreds, and they're also papered, there ya go.

[Redfrog]

Skybuster, over the years I've owned and trained yellows and chocolates, both mine and clients'. I keep coming back to to black. Maybe it's true what they.

I have had some that were awesome hunting dogs and a complete joy to be around. easily trained and loved the work, but would never excel in the trial game.

The field trial game is not the end all or be all for retrievers. It is just another discipline to challenge the dog and the handler. It requires a huge commitment from both, and as i said before the time required to train for a trail means the dog and handler get to spend a great deal of time together . It comes to a point where they read and understand each other's body language. You become a unit, working together to accomplish things that make people say WOW! I didn't know a dog could do that.

I hope you do well with your chocolates. Let us know how the training goes.
actually we seem to have enough bird dog handlers here that it would be interesting to see some posts on training. We can always learn something new. Techniques and tips to avoid problems or correct some behavior are always good. there are also a lot of guys with new pups that could like use some steering.

For those who have never been to a field trail or hunt test, do yourself a big favor and take the day to attend one.

I'll likely keep looking for a choclate with a black heart.

[eastcoast]

Originally Posted by densa44

What a post. I come from a Lab field trial background. In the old days we tried to hold off the backyard breeders by sticking to the field trial champion as the working standard. It is very hard to get, requires a great dog, expert handler and a lot of $$$. CKC finally allowed a lower standard to accommodate those who thought that field trials had gone too far.

Now what we are seeing is the systematic destruction of this breed as has happened to all the other ones that have become show dogs versus hunting dogs.

Interestingly enough by present dog is a Pudelpointer a non CKC breed but AKC recognized. The breed has small numbers and could not stand unethical breeders. So the solution is not to set standards for the breed (what they are supposed to look like) but stick with field tests. NAVHDA sets standards and you compete against the standard not one another. I think that encourages new handlers to train their dogs and maybe hunt them.

Ginnie is the best dog I've ever owned!

Good luck with this post.

this is the problem with just about any popular pure bred dogs,if I were to buy a lab I would do alot of research on the breeder,it's the same way home with beagels, everybody has one and they all breed them,my uncle is a good beagel breeder in toronto,he has a bloodline and trial history with his dogs,he is actively involved every weekend and people want the dogs for nothing because if you look it up you can really get one anywhere for alot cheaper.

I try and stay away from real popular breeds like a lab or a golden,if I were to get a bird dog I would probably get an irish setter or maybe a gordon setter because they are not as popular and you could easily see a good bloodline,I hear german shorthair pointers are great bird dogs aswell.

[Redfrog]

I spent months looking for a breeding I wanted. My pup is 3 months old and I could not be happier with him. He is confident and level headed, smart and easy to teach. He's just a well rounded dog. He's a black lab.

I have Ford truck. It is great truck. I looked for months for this truck. Just because something is popular does mean it is no good.

There are duds out there breeding duds. Do your homework.
There's a reason there are a lot more labs than Gordon or Irish setters hunting.
If you find them in the field they are awesome to hunt over, but there aren't many hunting.

Retriever trials are open to other breeds besides labs and goldens. tollers, flat coats etc. all can compete, but not many do, and those that do don't do well usually.
BUt when you see one that can compete they are something special to watch.

[Skybuster]

Hey Red, thanks for the input. I respect the opinion of someone who has put in the time. If you keep coming back to blacks there must be some reason, conscious or unconscious. I have never put in the time to take my dogs to that level, and likely won't be with these girls either, though they will receive basic training and I'm hoping one or both will be good for goose hunting.

Eastcoast - my dad had German Shorthairs all my life growing up. They were great bird dogs but not so keen on getting wet. Can't beat a lab in that arena.

[eastcoast]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

I spent months looking for a breeding I wanted. My pup is 3 months old and I could not be happier with him. He is confident and level headed, smart and easy to teach. He's just a well rounded dog. He's a black lab.

I have Ford truck. It is great truck. I looked for months for this truck. Just because something is popular does mean it is no good.

There are duds out there breeding duds. Do your homework.
There's a reason there are a lot more labs than Gordon or Irish setters hunting.
If you find them in the field they are awesome to hunt over, but there aren't many hunting.

Retriever trials are open to other breeds besides labs and goldens. tollers, flat coats etc. all can compete, but not many do, and those that do don't do well usually.
BUt when you see one that can compete they are something special to watch.

I would get a lab but like you I would do my research first,if you do a quick look through kijiji you can find all kinds of purebred field trial dogs,I doubt there are that many field trial dogs available at any one time.

labs are more popular than gordons or irish's because they are a popular family dog and a great pet,I doubt hunters made them popular, kids and wife's made them popular,just a guess but the best hunting dog or breed is probably one thats rare and not a great family dog at all.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by eastcoast

if I were to get a bird dog I would probably get an irish setter....... because they are not as popular

Generally there are reasons why a breed is not as popular.

[Fox red lab]

Originally Posted by Skinnydipper

Fox Red:

It appears that you have a couple of different colours there. Do you have any comments on there ability according to colour?

Both are excellent upland and waterfowl dogs. Vert smart, energetic and even tempered. Great family pets as well.

They both have their individual personalities of course and the 9yr black loves pheasants as well as waterfowl, but the 3 yr old red prefers retrieving waterfowl to pheasants but never the less he is still an excellent pheasant dog. I can't see any differences that I would attribute to color.

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by Fox red lab

Both are excellent upland and waterfowl dogs. Vert smart, energetic and even tempered. Great family pets as well.

They both have their individual personalities of course and the 9yr black loves pheasants as well as waterfowl, but the 3 yr old red prefers retrieving waterfowl to pheasants but never the less he is still an excellent pheasant dog. I can't see any differences that I would attribute to color.

How are the hips on the nine year old?

[RandyBoBandy]

I digress...but nobody has mentioned anything about this species of lab..
http://http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af121/teaguemx/methlab.jpg