Support works strike today.

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Well all Imknow is that in the health care sector from the cleaners to the surgeons this is a complete poop show......back logged....wait times....doctors leaving and now we are going to privatize this area...by the time they get companies etc up to speed on proper protocols, training etc to exacts well that will be another few more hurdles slowing down the medical system.....timing poop for brains...timing....not to be implemented during a pandemic....nor to a sector that is behind the 8 ball already.....idiot.

Its unfortunate that this is falling on the front line groups as you have mentioned above and not the bloated AHS management. The healthcare system is poorly run and something has to change as Alberta is going further in debt. The problem with healthcare and other government industries is the thought that they are untouchable. If people in these sectors were forced to compete with each other for positions and maintain status quo like in the private sector it would be much more efficient. Remove the unions and they will begin to perform.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

Its unfortunate that this is falling on the front line groups as you have mentioned above and not the bloated AHS management. The healthcare system is poorly run and something has to change as Alberta is going further in debt. The problem with healthcare and other government industries is the thought that they are untouchable. If people in these sectors were forced to compete with each other for positions and maintain status quo like in the private sector it would be much more efficient. Remove the unions and they will begin to perform.

the timing is not right though....lets get over this pandemic bs hurdle then implement change....timing, tact and execution........

[wannabe]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

"The blame for any disruption to patient care that may occur today needs to land squarely at the feet of Jason Kenney and the UCP."

Kenny can take a long leap off a cliff for all I care.....

Do you forget that notley spent over a billion dollars on health care while she was in office and health care system is way worse off than before she doesn't the billion.

Why don't people wake up and realize money doesn't grow on trees, unions have lost their purpose in the workforce, ndp are nothing but money wasting politicians and that ahs is making things way worse than they need to be. If they had just given every worker a 3% pay cut and gotten rid of a lot of useless upper management we wouldn't be in this position.

But let's just blame Kenney because we're not grown up enough to see what's really going on in front of of eyes.

[waldedw]

Very hard to garner support when you stage a wild cat strike, you have lost your credibility and will quickly loose the publics support. IMHO

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

the timing is not right though....lets get over this pandemic bs hurdle then implement change....timing, tact and execution........

I know what you mean, but the same thing can be said to the workers. Lets get over this lack of provincial income hurdle then we can get you some more money. I have no problem with them being paid well when we have the income, but this "I work for healthcare therefore I am untouchable" attitude does not sit with me. Everyone in the province needs to be in sync. To me this would be a perfect excuse for the AUPE to become barred from operating in Alberta.

[Jokey75]

Originally Posted by bridger2010

So we can never critique public sector remuneration or taxpayer expenditures without being callous? That's a weird and unsubstantiated take.

Of course not. Criticize spending all you want.

But to come right out and say that "we have suffered and now its your turn" is beyond critique and now just pure hate and spite.

Unsubstantiated? Do you want quotes from all the posters who have said this stuff?

If you don't see it then you are either not paying attention or on the callous side of the issue.

[Iron Brew]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

I know what you mean, but the same thing can be said to the workers. Lets get over this lack of provincial income hurdle then we can get you some more money. I have no problem with them being paid well when we have the income, but this "I work for healthcare therefore I am untouchable" attitude does not sit with me. Everyone in the province needs to be in sync. To me this would be a perfect excuse for the AUPE to become barred from operating in Alberta.

You realise this isn't about the wages, right? (your second sentence).

I think we all agree something needs to be done. After that it falls into arguments.

I'd say there are a few different things happening.

1. Healthcare goes through massive reorganization after every election. The problem is they are trying to shift a 14 billion dollar operation in different directions. This takes immense planning and costs. They BEGIN the implementation and then the next election hits and they start all over again. This wastes incredible amounts of money and resources. It has nothing to do with the cleaners, the laundry, the food services people. Lay the blame where it should be. The politicians for the last 20 to 30 years. This also goes back to my comment on a different thread. Long term planning is NOT 3 to 4 to 5 years.

2. We pay for multiple health systems. This is for political reasons. It adds costs. Huge costs.

3. There is a serious trust issue with the UCP and privatization. Perceived (or real) belief of a public fleecing for friends.

There are other issues, but in my belief number one and two are the major issues. I am a disbeliever of Jason mainly because of his past history with the TFW program. I've never forgiven him it's abuses, which reduced only when he had basically no choice. And I see he has just reduced it in Alberta again which comes to my question - why was it that large to begin with? I understand it for the farm labourers (fruit pickers and the like) but I don't agree with it even there.

[gunluvr]

Originally Posted by coolpete1

lucky its not up to me , that walk out would be permanent and replaced with temporary foreign workers. should be illegal for unions in workplaces paid with tax dollars.

I agree. Public sector employees who strike are thumbing their noses at taxpayers. You can blame Kenny for it but we elected him because someone had to show fiscal responsibility after the NDP spent like drunken sailors.
The same thing will happen when the Conservatives take over and are faced with cleaning up after the liberals spent us into a giant hole.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by wannabe

Do you forget that notley spent over a billion dollars on health care while she was in office and health care system is way worse off than before she doesn't the billion.

Why don't people wake up and realize money doesn't grow on trees, unions have lost their purpose in the workforce, ndp are nothing but money wasting politicians and that ahs is making things way worse than they need to be. If they had just given every worker a 3% pay cut and gotten rid of a lot of useless upper management we wouldn't be in this position.

But let's just blame Kenney because we're not grown up enough to see what's really going on in front of of eyes.

easy there ehhh….what was is just that but Kenny right now, present and future can back off a bit and do the right thing...we are in a freaking pandemic for gods sake....kinda like attempting to put out a small shed fire while the house is on fire...gotta prioritize....he is a complete idiot as we all can see.....

[wannabe]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

easy there ehhh….what was is just that but Kenny right now, present and future can back off a bit and do the right thing...we are in a freaking pandemic for gods sake....kinda like attempting to put out a small shed fire while the house is on fire...gotta prioritize....he is a complete idiot as we all can see.....

If we're in a pandemic why the strike?? Kind of hypocritical don't you think??

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by wannabe

If we're in a pandemic why the strike?? Kind of hypocritical don't you think??

it's a temp kick back is all...

Albertans should be asking themselves when it comes to safeguarding the future of health care, who do they trust more: the government or their doctor and understand that the doctors have a barrage of essential well trained support staff.....attempting to make drastic changes now is pure idiotic.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

All that tax money is positive cash flow to the province, the money that pays the public sector, yet Notley didn't seem to care, because most of those people didn't vote for her. Now that the revenue is gone, the province can't afford to pay for all of the expenses that they used to.

Bingo

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

easy there ehhh….what was is just that but Kenny right now, present and future can back off a bit and do the right thing...we are in a freaking pandemic for gods sake....kinda like attempting to put out a small shed fire while the house is on fire...gotta prioritize....he is a complete idiot as we all can see.....

My top priority would be make sure we don’t bury the province in debt because of a simple flu

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

My top priority would be make sure we don’t bury the province in debt because of a simple flu

Simple you say....then why is the whole freakin world gone twisted?

Simple means just that.....more like complex....but then again I am no health expert and I take 99.9 percent here are not either......

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by Jokey75

Can't wait to see all these replies....

These workers weren't important enough for many here to care about but now that they walk out many will be outraged.

Can't have it both ways.

That’s an Olympic stretch, I can’t think of anyone who doesn’t appreciate the workers in the background, especially considering many of us are also workers ‘in the background‘. You reveal yourself there, and it’s your own bias shining through.

Can’t have it both ways is an issue you seem stuck on as being one-sided because you ask for it both ways. These folks are fine with private sector workers losing their jobs, but god forbid some gov’t budgets need trimming during a financial crisis and their stance is ‘screw you, we’re more important than those who can barely pay their taxes to employ us’. Any citizen not willing to take an equal share of the financial pain being felt by the majority of society, does not deserve to be employed by that society. Classic stereotypical union obliviousness, wanting to be isolated from the nationwide/global hardship, preferring that others bear it on their behalf. Of course many union workers are not stereotypical in this regard and realize that cuts must be made and that everyone is affected, but the public sector sure has a lot more of them than private sector unions do.

It’s not as though we’re asking anything of them that we’re not personally experiencing, and experiencing to a greater degree I might add. Hypocrisy is when one does not want to be part of the greater societal team, to be isolated from hardship by having others bear their burden.

[Sundancefisher]

A large portion of laundry was already in the private sector. The rest will be as well..


No problems occurred. Safety was maintained. Costs saved.

These services were also outsourced in B.C. The NDP government didn’t change that. Why? Because it made sense.

Focus money and resources on medical services. Ancillary areas can simply be better handled in the private sector.

That being said the food in hospitals is terrible.

[Trager]

Originally Posted by Iron Brew

You realise this isn't about the wages, right? (your second sentence).

I think we all agree something needs to be done. After that it falls into arguments.

I'd say there are a few different things happening.

1. Healthcare goes through massive reorganization after every election. The problem is they are trying to shift a 14 billion dollar operation in different directions. This takes immense planning and costs. They BEGIN the implementation and then the next election hits and they start all over again. This wastes incredible amounts of money and resources. It has nothing to do with the cleaners, the laundry, the food services people. Lay the blame where it should be. The politicians for the last 20 to 30 years. This also goes back to my comment on a different thread. Long term planning is NOT 3 to 4 to 5 years.

2. We pay for multiple health systems. This is for political reasons. It adds costs. Huge costs.

3. There is a serious trust issue with the UCP and privatization. Perceived (or real) belief of a public fleecing for friends.

There are other issues, but in my belief number one and two are the major issues. I am a disbeliever of Jason mainly because of his past history with the TFW program. I've never forgiven him it's abuses, which reduced only when he had basically no choice. And I see he has just reduced it in Alberta again which comes to my question - why was it that large to begin with? I understand it for the farm labourers (fruit pickers and the like) but I don't agree with it even there.

Were you a business owner in 2008-2012? Any idea what retail store owners went through trying to get labour? How about workers in Banff, Canmore and Jasper during high season? Canadian citizens at that time refused to work minimum wage jobs and thus, TFW's were needed badly. How do I know? I went through it and was very stressful when you were reducing operation hours because lack of staff. The Canadian workers knew they could get away with anything at that time, showing up late and NOT showing up at all or when they actually felt like coming in to work.

[Jokey75]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

T These folks are fine with private sector workers losing their jobs,

You know this? You know that they are OK with others losing their jobs? You think they are completely devoid of compassion and humanity?

There's your Olympic stretch.

I'm not Ok with anyone losing their jobs. Everyone working is the best situation. People say that the public workers are not supporting anyone else.
How would you suggest they do that? And why would you think they might want to considering all the garbage that gets flung public sector worker's way?

[bridger2010]

Originally Posted by Jokey75

You know this? You know that they are OK with others losing their jobs? You think they are completely devoid of compassion and humanity?

There's your Olympic stretch.

I'm not Ok with anyone losing their jobs. Everyone working is the best situation. People say that the public workers are not supporting anyone else.
How would you suggest they do that? And why would you think they might want to considering all the garbage that gets flung public sector worker's way?

They could support everyone else by agreeing to take a pay cut for starters.

[bridger2010]

Originally Posted by Jokey75

Of course not. Criticize spending all you want.

But to come right out and say that "we have suffered and now its your turn" is beyond critique and now just pure hate and spite.

Unsubstantiated? Do you want quotes from all the posters who have said this stuff?

If you don't see it then you are either not paying attention or on the callous side of the issue.

You are implying a motive of "hate and spite" despite no evidence of that. Equity. Fairness. Economic reality. These are all equally plausible reasons for stating that the public sector ought to be treated the same as the private sector.

I am paying attention and also not callous. At the same time. Imagine that.

[rottie]

Originally Posted by bridger2010

They could support everyone else by agreeing to take a pay cut for starters.

As wage cuts have not being offered, they might have a hard time accepting that. Privatization is being offered, not wage cuts.

[Iron Brew]

Originally Posted by Trager

Were you a business owner in 2008-2012? Any idea what retail store owners went through trying to get labour? How about workers in Banff, Canmore and Jasper during high season? Canadian citizens at that time refused to work minimum wage jobs and thus, TFW's were needed badly. How do I know? I went through it and was very stressful when you were reducing operation hours because lack of staff. The Canadian workers knew they could get away with anything at that time, showing up late and NOT showing up at all or when they actually felt like coming in to work.

I'll go the other way. Apprentices weren't getting hired at the rate they should or could have been. They needed to be. This hurt a lot of younger people.

[bridger2010]

Originally Posted by rottie

As wage cuts have not being offered, they might have a hard time accepting that. Privatization is being offered, not wage cuts.

Give me a break.

[6.5 shooter]

Nutley hires 14,000---Kenny lays off 11,000.----- I would say it is a net gain for the union of, 3,000 more tools to line their greedy pockets....

[slough shark]

Yesterday was just the warm up unfortunately, I’ve heard of rumblings down the pipe, Kenney will be going after all the public sector, nurses, teachers etc... I’m hoping that it’s not the simple pay cut that I’ve heard about but rather a streamlining of operations across the board. When my daughter was in the hospital for a couple months when she was born I saw a grotesque amount of waste simply related to procedure, on top of that the bureaucracy and paperwork within AHS was hard to comprehend, that’s where much of the waste is, from there the contracts that can pay people overtime when working part time that’s what needs to be addressed far before pay cuts otherwise we haven’t actually gone after the change that needs to happen.

On teachers I’m going to admit I’m a little biased, seeings as my wife is a teacher and she has gotten I believe a 1% pay raise in the last 8-9 years or something I don’t know if a pay cut will really address any issues there other than simply ****ing off teachers, pushing some into retirement.

[Map Maker]

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

Nutley hires 14,000---Kenny lays off 11,000.----- I would say it is a net gain for the union of, 3,000 more tools to line their greedy pockets....

I did to do some fact checking on this.
Redford was the culprit and prentice then Notley.
]

This hiring all happened right at the oil crash


The government probably made temp jobs to help with unemployment, but somehow converted to full time.

[KegRiver]

I started in highway maintenance just after it went private.

The government required the successful bid honor our wage agreement with the government.

Our wages remained the same but job performance plummeted because the company ordered us to get each job done as fast and as cheaply as possible.

Equipment maintenance and replacement also plummeted, within a few years we were working with very poorly maintained equipment, often dangerously maintained equipment that was outdated and unreliable.

Job performance took another nose dive. Then came the cuts, first it was overtime that was cut, then our benefits package and finally our wages.

Through all that the company wasted embarrassing amounts of money.
For example they bought dozens of new SUVs for us to use for Pot Hole patching, guard rail repair, sign replacement and all the other things we were required to do.

How many tons of cold mix asphalt do you suppose one can load into an SUV?

I can tell you it wasn't enough to keep a crew busy for more then and hour.
Then we had to make another three hour round trip to get more.

Here in town our hospital has a well staffed kitchen that serves patients delicious food.

Last winter when I had my heart attack they shipped me to Edmonton where food services were farmed out. There I eat cold food from packages or sandwiches.

The staff that served that food were really nice but I couldn't understand most of them and most of them could not understand me.
If there was a food item that didn't agree with my weakened system there was no way for me to communicate that to them.

So I lived with what they served.

I can't blame them, it was clear they were doing the best they could. And they clearly cared about how I felt.

If I catch the Vid the last think I want to have to worry about is whether or not hospital staff will understand what I tell them.

[amosfella]

Here's what I find interesting. I think the efficiencies of the place depends more on the management of the individual place rather than whether it's government or private.

I think in also comes down to the individual employees. A few years ago, I had to take my grandma to SHC after she did a faceplant on the tile floor in our house tripping on the stairs. You could see that some individuals there weren't very motivated, they were shuffling slowly as if they couldn't find anything past creeper gear. Then there were others who were go go going and trying to pick up all the slack of the others and keep everyone looked after.

The problem that I see is in government, and to some degree big and mega corporations is that the useless gets promoted to their level of incompetence, and that's where things get stupid.