Support works strike today.

[Homesteader]

Originally Posted by bridger2010

You can clearly set out the expected standards in a contract with a private business.

Do you think Apple, Google, Microsoft etc. rely on public employees to build their prized technology to exacting standards? Of course not. Yet they are world-leaders.

Apple, google and Microsoft aren’t quite the same. I can live with a iPhone that drops calls. You’re entitled to your opinion, I understand the public system needs work, but I’m sure the private system would saw Harry to meet government standards too. It sucked, I’m only sorry my mom had to live with it for awhile.

[CanadianPsycho]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

Always amazed at the people who voted Kenney in because of his position of getting our debt under control and cutting government expense...then complain when he does it.
Just as the Liberals can’t go to the basement and print more money... neither can the conservatives.
Reminds me of the Klein years...when he started his slash and burn everyone hated him.
Eight years later when the province was prosperous again he was everyone’s hero.
Go figure.

Do you know how it took for those professions that klein cut took to recover? how much experience in nursing, healthcare, teaching, was lost due to to that? Lets just say many years longer than he lived. The last thing this province needs is for another mass exodus of qualified experienced healthcare workers. We are already seeing it with Doctors and its not going to end well if nurses, paramedics, and other healthcare workers leave due to the cuts. Lots of jobs elsewhere for them and it will take many many years to replace that experience. Think of that before you praise cutting public workers wages, jobs and careers

[Jokey75]

It never ceases to amaze me at how callous some people here can be.

"its tough for me so it should be tough for others too"

Wow. Just wow.

If I was advertising here I would be re-thinking it. Pay to have an ad up where a complete lack of humanity and compassion are a regular occurrence? No thanks.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by pikeman06

Well if its all there is Scott.....i guess ill take er. Sitting on the couch watching the news, and collecting your 2000 a month are ya? You know where that money comes from eh? Doesn't grow in your mushroom patch. If there's work ill be workin.

The link I posted shows lots of positions that need to be filled. By all means feel free to apply. The requirements are clearly laid out.

[silver lab]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Maybe I’m wrong. I was under the impression they were protesting wage cuts.
I would still be interested in your wife’s wage as to compare it to something similar in the private sector though.

I really do hold you to a higher standard then to ask anyone on a public forum how much they make , is this a joke?.... How much do you make and what are your benefits?
I have never (or has my wife) heard about a wage cut.... Do you have any proof of this? They had a wage freeze but that’s not why they were told to walk out today.
PS: The wife agrees with Jason Kenny.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by silver lab

I really do hold you to a higher standard then to ask anyone on a public forum how much they make , is this a joke?.... How much do you make and what are your benefits?
I have never (or has my wife) heard about a wage cut.... Do you have any proof of this? They had a wage freeze but that’s not why they were told to walk out today.
PS: The wife agrees with Jason Kenny.

I didn’t excpect an answer.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by CanadianPsycho

Do you know how it took for those professions that klein cut took to recover? how much experience in nursing, healthcare, teaching, was lost due to to that? Lets just say many years longer than he lived. The last thing this province needs is for another mass exodus of qualified experienced healthcare workers. We are already seeing it with Doctors and its not going to end well if nurses, paramedics, and other healthcare workers leave due to the cuts. Lots of jobs elsewhere for them and it will take many many years to replace that experience. Think of that before you praise cutting public workers wages, jobs and careers

That's the reason Alberta ended up having to raise wages up to their current high levels was to attract professionals back into the province after losing so many in the early 90's.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

I wasn’t asking. But as stated, I’d be interested to know......no joke. And how dare you ask me how much I make!

The link I posted will tell you exactly what all those jobs pay.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by silver lab

I have never (or has my wife) heard about a wage cut.... Do you have any proof of this? They had a wage freeze but that’s not why they were told to walk out today.
PS: The wife agrees with Jason Kenny.

Proof? I just stated I was wrong from my first post.....in my first post I was under the impression that it was a wage cut. Several posts have shown me it wasn’t. Hence saying I was wrong about the wage cut. Nope. No link. Lol.

[bridger2010]

Originally Posted by Jokey75

It never ceases to amaze me at how callous some people here can be.

"its tough for me so it should be tough for others too"

Wow. Just wow.

If I was advertising here I would be re-thinking it. Pay to have an ad up where a complete lack of humanity and compassion are a regular occurrence? No thanks.

So we can never critique public sector remuneration or taxpayer expenditures without being callous? That's a weird and unsubstantiated take.

[Iron Brew]

Originally Posted by NCC

Alberta is going broke and health care is the province’s largest single cost. Our health care costs are higher per capital than any other province, so something has to give. For all of you that support this illegal walk out, what do you AHS should do to reduce costs? Or do you think we should just keep increasing taxes to cover union demands?

Start by getting rid of covenant health. Easy way to save a pile of money.

Oh. Wait. That's right. The board is pretty much all conservative bigwigs. NM.

[Iron Brew]

Originally Posted by NCC

Psycho, my wife is a nurse and I have 3 j-men working for me, so you can’t BS me about who makes what.

We already have the highest health care costs in the country, and you think we should pay more?

Why should a house keeper or food services worker in AHS make more than someone in the private sector who is performing the same duties?

A house keeper in private sector is not working in an extremely disease infested place requiring specialized knowledge. I'm talking how to properly sanitize, how to enter the room of a person with immunocompromised, etc. The idea that this job should go to a $15/hr "I don't give a rats patootie" scares the crap out of me. The food or the laundry are a lot less of a concern to me, although I feel for the people who are going to be affected. That being said, who is in the running for getting these contracts? Are there any laundry facilities able to take these loads? How much would it actually save, and how much would be going to UCP donors pockets?

[HVA7mm]

Originally Posted by CanadianPsycho

Do you know how it took for those professions that klein cut took to recover? how much experience in nursing, healthcare, teaching, was lost due to to that? Lets just say many years longer than he lived. The last thing this province needs is for another mass exodus of qualified experienced healthcare workers. We are already seeing it with Doctors and its not going to end well if nurses, paramedics, and other healthcare workers leave due to the cuts. Lots of jobs elsewhere for them and it will take many many years to replace that experience. Think of that before you praise cutting public workers wages, jobs and careers

I know, it's an absolute catastrophe when cuts happen to the private sector.

It's a totally different scenario than the rig pigs making $200k/year driving lifted dually trucks. They should have known better and put some money away, spent less on frivolous things, not taken on huge mortgages/loans, everyone knows that boom times don't last forever. Rig pigs being tradespersons, technicians, truck drivers, equipment operators, civil/electrical/petroleum/chemical engineers, CPA's/CMA's, underwriters, lawyers, project managers, executives, business analysts, management consultants..........................etc. These professions all grow on trees and are easily replaceable. Sarcasm off.

[bridger2010]

Originally Posted by Iron Brew

A house keeper in private sector is not working in an extremely disease infested place requiring specialized knowledge. I'm talking how to properly sanitize, how to enter the room of a person with immunocompromised, etc. The idea that this job should go to a $15/hr "I don't give a rats patootie" scares the crap out of me. The food or the laundry are a lot less of a concern to me, although I feel for the people who are going to be affected. That being said, who is in the running for getting these contracts? Are there any laundry facilities able to take these loads? How much would it actually save, and how much would be going to UCP donors pockets?

Have you been in a hospital lately? The idea that unionized cleaning staff are the holy grail of disinfection is a joke. The private sector can provide the same service cheaper and better.

And the added benefit is that taxpayer money doesn't flow to donors of the anti-Alberta, anti-private sector NDP (the unions).

[bridger2010]

Originally Posted by HVA7mm

I know, it's an absolute catastrophe when cuts happen to the private sector.

It's a totally different scenario than the rig pigs making $200k/year driving lifted dually trucks. They should have known better and put some money away, spent less on frivolous things, not taken on huge mortgages/loans, everyone knows that boom times don't last forever. Rig pigs being tradespersons, technicians, truck drivers, equipment operators, civil/electrical/petroleum/chemical engineers, CPA's/CMA's, underwriters, lawyers, project managers, executives, business analysts, management consultants..........................etc. These professions all grow on trees and are easily replaceable. Sarcasm off.

Also forgotten is the fact that each person making $200k per year in the patch is paying $80k to $120k/year in taxes. Reduce that to zero income and that is a lot of missing revenue.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by bridger2010

The idea of layoffs is a red herring. The jobs will still exist, they will just be under the name of a private employer. The real loser will be the union as they will lose those sweet, sweet union dues they steal from their members.

And there is the incentive for the union wanting a strike. Of course AHS could lay off some management but nobody in management wants to start that, or their position could be next.

[Iron Brew]

Originally Posted by bridger2010

Have you been in a hospital lately? The idea that unionized cleaning staff are the holy grail of disinfection is a joke. The private sector can provide the same service cheaper and better.

And the added benefit is that taxpayer money doesn't flow to donors of the anti-Alberta, anti-private sector NDP (the unions).

I went and looked to see what the cleaners we will be replacing made as per the link of jobs posted. $18-$21. So lets say you privatize, you pay $15 to the cleaner, the company has to eat a whack of costs, and they have to pay a pile to get people trained to a suitable standard, and those people will walk the first time they get offered a job at Rotten Ronnies for the same wage. You really think the cleaner contractors are going to be able to keep up with the work for less than what it costs already? I think Diver had a good point. 6 managers to decide a piddly job is the real issue. Mind you, we all know Jason doesn't really give a rats ass about actually saving money... He's cherry picking the report at the expense of the lowest paid.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by bridger2010

Also forgotten is the fact that each person making $200k per year in the patch is paying $80k to $120k/year in taxes. Reduce that to zero income and that is a lot of missing revenue.

All that tax money is positive cash flow to the province, the money that pays the public sector, yet Notley didn't seem to care, because most of those people didn't vote for her. Now that the revenue is gone, the province can't afford to pay for all of the expenses that they used to.

[bridger2010]

Originally Posted by Iron Brew

I went and looked to see what the cleaners we will be replacing made as per the link of jobs posted. $18-$21. So lets say you privatize, you pay $15 to the cleaner, the company has to eat a whack of costs, and they have to pay a pile to get people trained to a suitable standard, and those people will walk the first time they get offered a job at Rotten Ronnies for the same wage. You really think the cleaner contractors are going to be able to keep up with the work for less than what it costs already? I think Diver had a good point. 6 managers to decide a piddly job is the real issue. Mind you, we all know Jason doesn't really give a rats ass about actually saving money... He's cherry picking the report at the expense of the lowest paid.

Don't get me wrong, cuts across the board are warranted, including the top levels.

[Iron Brew]

Originally Posted by bridger2010

Don't get me wrong, cuts across the board are warranted, including the top levels.

It amazes me that I seem to be the only one concerned about Covenant Health. I really wish people would start researching that. Look at the board. Look at the CEO wages. We fund that even though it is a Catholic system. There is a good way to save a pile of money quickly, IMHO. Oh. And the report Jason had made up recommended that and crickets... We'd rather beat on the lowest paid people...

[bridger2010]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

All that tax money is positive cash flow to the province, the money that pays the public sector, yet Notley didn't seem to care, because most of those people didn't vote for her. Now that the revenue is gone, the province can't afford to pay for all of the expenses that they used to.

Exactly.

It still surprises me that the unions would throw their support behind the NDP economy-killing plan rather than supporting the conservatives or, at the very least, remaining neutral.

[CanadianPsycho]

Originally Posted by HVA7mm

I know, it's an absolute catastrophe when cuts happen to the private sector.

It's a totally different scenario than the rig pigs making $200k/year driving lifted dually trucks. They should have known better and put some money away, spent less on frivolous things, not taken on huge mortgages/loans, everyone knows that boom times don't last forever. Rig pigs being tradespersons, technicians, truck drivers, equipment operators, civil/electrical/petroleum/chemical engineers, CPA's/CMA's, underwriters, lawyers, project managers, executives, business analysts, management consultants..........................etc. These professions all grow on trees and are easily replaceable. Sarcasm off.

They all provide a service, and i hate seeing cuts there too. I'll never understand the idea that just because i support public health care and jobs means i must wish ill upon trades and private sector. Too bad oil jobs tend to be region specific and not everywhere. Id happily put every patch worker back to work if it was in my power. I wish no ill upon any of my fellow Albertans or Canadians and that includes their jobs.
Health care is everywhere, and if the jobs here go to the crapper they will leave and it would take a lot to bring them back. Read up on the effects the Klein cuts had to health care and the costs to get it back up to the levels it was prior. years and years. Peoples lives are at stake, and I would hate for my immuno-compromised grandparents, parents, cancer patients, to die because cuts to cleaners meant they catch MRSA or any of the other major infections from a hospital stay. Or for the trauma patient at a rural hospital passing away because a doctor wasn't available, or the people at the local hospital being affected because there aren't enough nurses to care for them as they left to seek a province that supports them

[rottie]

Originally Posted by Iron Brew

A house keeper in private sector is not working in an extremely disease infested place requiring specialized knowledge. I'm talking how to properly sanitize, how to enter the room of a person with immunocompromised, etc. The idea that this job should go to a $15/hr "I don't give a rats patootie" scares the crap out of me. The food or the laundry are a lot less of a concern to me, although I feel for the people who are going to be affected. That being said, who is in the running for getting these contracts? Are there any laundry facilities able to take these loads? How much would it actually save, and how much would be going to UCP donors pockets?

Not every house keeper in AHS comes in contact with patients or any associated risks. Lots clean off sites that are office space / admin offices. Why are they paid way more than the private sector for the exact office cleaning job ?

[Iron Brew]

Originally Posted by rottie

Not every house keeper in AHS comes in contact with patients or any associated risks. Lots clean off sites that are office space / admin offices. Why are they paid way more than the private sector for the exact office cleaning job ?

Is it way more? $18-21 doesn't sound excessive to me.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by rottie

Not every house keeper in AHS comes in contact with patients or any associated risks. Lots clean off sites that are office space / admin offices. Why are they paid way more than the private sector for the exact office cleaning job ?

What does a cleaner make in the private sector?

[rottie]

Originally Posted by Iron Brew

Is it way more? $18-21 doesn't sound excessive to me.

When you factor in all the benefits and pension, yes it is a lot more than the private sector. Those benefits add up in a hurry.

[Iron Brew]

Originally Posted by rottie

When you factor in all the benefits and pension, yes it is a lot more than the private sector. Those benefits add up in a hurry.

So what would the whole cost be then? I researched my argument, I'll let you do your research. (for the record, I'm anti defined benefit pensions, forced contributions into union pensions etc, but while we have MP's and MLA's with their gold plated pensions, I have zero respect for those same people wanting to cut the rest of us out. And NO, I do not have a public sector pension) And I went and searched housekeepers on indeed. The hourly wages aren't that different, so I'll ask... When the cleaners are responsible for keeping MRSA, SARS, Covid, name your bug from infecting patients or themselves, shouldn't they get a small premium above the housekeeper who is vacumming fluffy's lost fur bunnies? This is called devil's advocate. I just don't believe this will actually save any money and I do believe it will cost us in terms of sicker patients.

[JohninAB]

Originally Posted by hal53

Uh.....do you know when the lay offs were slated for???....whats stopping those workers in the laundry and food services from going to work for a private contractor that is going to provide the service??? Have you ever seen any government, anywhere run something more efficiently than someone from the private sector can????

Hmmm, let’s see Hal. Public sector shares an office with an oil company. It snows out so the public sector workers come in early and shovel their portion of the sidewalk so it is ready when office opens. The oil company has a service company travel 45 minutes one way to shovel their walk, all of 15 minutes, then drive back to their office 45 minutes away. Now please, explain to me, how this is more efficient than the public sector.

[Dynamic]

I fully support these strikes and hope all involved know there are lots of people on their side. Not at AO apparently. Either way that's a pretty ballsy move regardless to wildcat strike and something that I would have to think long and hard before doing something like that.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, in life you get what you pay for. If your going to contract this out to the lowest possible bidder you are going to pay for it in the long run. I'm not saying the current crop of laundry/food service/ and janitorial services is the cream of the crop so to speak, these are still entry level jobs making 20-25 bucks an hour. But they are going to be more competent and cost efficient than a kid just out of high school or someone who jumps from min wage job to min wage job. Even in the private sector, an employee that is experienced and knowledgeable is worth their weight in gold. The UPC are essentially shuffling them out the door. And for those thinking that privatizing is some magical unicorn that will save oodles of money, your assignment for today is to do a google and search "privatized Ontario or Quebec nursing homes" and report back on how well privatizing works. Sometimes money saved is not worth it and the money saved when under closer scrutiny was not actually saved at all. It just looked that way on the balance sheet.

How much money will actually be saved? The UPC say 600 million eventually. They also budgeted oil to be $60 a barrel or something ridiculous like that. They did their quick paper napkin math and came up to 600 million. Now some CEO of some private linen company will get a big bonus. Or alternatively Kenny's buddies are probably scrambling to get their newly acquired linen cleaning business opened in time to start bidding on these new contracts.

[rottie]

Originally Posted by Iron Brew

So what would the whole cost be then? I researched my argument, I'll let you do your research. (for the record, I'm anti defined benefit pensions, forced contributions into union pensions etc, but while we have MP's and MLA's with their gold plated pensions, I have zero respect for those same people wanting to cut the rest of us out. And NO, I do not have a public sector pension) And I went and searched housekeepers on indeed. The hourly wages aren't that different, so I'll ask... When the cleaners are responsible for keeping MRSA, SARS, Covid, name your bug from infecting patients or themselves, shouldn't they get a small premium above the housekeeper who is vacumming fluffy's lost fur bunnies? This is called devil's advocate. I just don't believe this will actually save any money.

I did my research,its called working for AHS / DTHR for 20 years. You are correct in some ways. Those that come in contact with bio hazards should be paid an extra premium. Those that do office / administration areas do not come into contact with any hazards the private sector doesnt, thus they do not deserve anythingthan the exact same job in the private sector recieves.