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  #31  
Old 10-10-2020, 04:28 PM
Smoky buck Smoky buck is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Glion View Post
This is completely false. Edmonton is reporting 97% compliance yet you are trying to say the 3% are the ones responsible for more cases.
The data says you are wrong.
Mandatory masks with 97% compliance and Edmonton still has the fastest growing number of COVID cases in Alberta hmm. We clearly have less control over the spread then is suggested and measures really don’t seem to be that effective

And yes even I wear a mask when I need to pick something up from Edmonton.
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  #32  
Old 10-10-2020, 04:34 PM
Scott h Scott h is offline
 
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I wonder just how meaningful comparisons between 1918 and 2020 can be.

World population in 1918, around 1.8 billion
World population in 2020 7.7 billion

Industrial and vehicle pollution in 1918, almost non existent

In 2020, Industrial pollution, thousands of tons per year
Transportation, thousands of tons per year.

1918 Heart disease, diabetics, cancer and obesity all minimal.
2020 all at crisis levels.

1918 diet, mostly organic.
2020, so laced with man made chemicals the labeling a product as organic warrants doubling the price.

I wonder what the Spanish flu would do in today's world if it appeared for the first time in 2020.
I doubt the Spanish flu would have even close to the same mortality rate if it happened today. Most of those that died in the 1918 pandemic died due to lack of basic (by today's standards) medical care. If you are hypoxic and require oxygen it doesn't matter if it's caused from influenza or covid. If you don't oxygen get it you will quickly die. That wasn't an option in 1918. Patients are just as sick now, but don't die nearly as often due to interventions that couldn't have been imagined a hundred years ago.
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  #33  
Old 10-10-2020, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Smoky buck View Post
Mandatory masks with 97% compliance and Edmonton still has the fastest growing number of COVID cases in Alberta hmm. We clearly have less control over the spread then is suggested and measures really don’t seem to be that effective

And yes even I wear a mask when I need to pick something up from Edmonton.
So 97% of home parties and gatherings are wearing masks and practicing hand washing and social distancing?

Lol

Love your statistics.
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  #34  
Old 10-10-2020, 08:26 PM
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So 97% of home parties and gatherings are wearing masks and practicing hand washing and social distancing?

Lol

Love your statistics.
Those statistics are from the city of Edmonton. Take it up with them I guess
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  #35  
Old 10-10-2020, 08:33 PM
Jayhad Jayhad is offline
 
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I'm wondering when its going to drop, chicken little has been screaming about the sky falling for months now
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  #36  
Old 10-10-2020, 08:37 PM
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I'm wondering when its going to drop, chicken little has been screaming about the sky falling for months now
It's not. lol
A few still scream though. Less and less are listening.
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  #37  
Old 10-10-2020, 08:59 PM
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Funny how the covid numbers go up when colder weather appears and go down when warm weather comes, just like the flue virus it is. Numbers will climb this fall and winter then go down when summer starts, regardless of masks or not. Second wave maybe, or just the regular seasonal wave that all flue viruses seem to follow until they burn out and the next bug comes along, just like H1N1 and all the others.
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  #38  
Old 10-10-2020, 09:03 PM
Glion Glion is offline
 
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Funny thing is that even Ontarios numbers concerning deaths are deaths with covid not from covid

https://torontosun.com/news/provinci...any-is-unknown
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  #39  
Old 10-10-2020, 09:11 PM
Smoky buck Smoky buck is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
So 97% of home parties and gatherings are wearing masks and practicing hand washing and social distancing?

Lol

Love your statistics.
As mentioned not my statistic sorry you don’t like it

Regardless how you feel most of the large outbreaks experienced a mix of restrictions from masks to lockdowns. Most places are experiencing an increase at this time regardless of precautions

It’s pretty clear we have less control then govt likes to let on but luckily Covid19 is having way less impact then predictions too

But regardless how you or I feel Covid19 is spreading regardless of precautions
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  #40  
Old 10-10-2020, 09:13 PM
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Covid is .03% deadly to humans, and 99.3% deadly to economies..
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  #41  
Old 10-10-2020, 09:25 PM
Smoky buck Smoky buck is offline
 
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Covid is .03% deadly to humans, and 99.3% deadly to economies..
Said early on it seems the side effects of the precautions are going to be worse than the virus
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  #42  
Old 10-10-2020, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Glion View Post
Those statistics are from the city of Edmonton. Take it up with them I guess
They are talking about businesses.

The main vector for spread has and is private social gatherings outside of businesses.

Problem is in a spike...businesses have a higher risk.

People are getting sick at home parties and then going to a bar. If people were smarter...this could be greatly reduced. Hence the concern with thanksgiving parties.
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  #43  
Old 10-10-2020, 09:54 PM
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Said early on it seems the side effects of the precautions are going to be worse than the virus
Was always a massive red flag for me how quickly the term "The New Normal" suddenly was
thrust onto the scene & preached 24/7 back in early March..like mind programming even.
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  #44  
Old 10-10-2020, 09:55 PM
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As mentioned not my statistic sorry you don’t like it

Regardless how you feel most of the large outbreaks experienced a mix of restrictions from masks to lockdowns. Most places are experiencing an increase at this time regardless of precautions

It’s pretty clear we have less control then govt likes to let on but luckily Covid19 is having way less impact then predictions too

But regardless how you or I feel Covid19 is spreading regardless of precautions
I think most businesses can handle mitigation and keep open.

Problem is private social gatherings causing a spike in businesses...generally employees impacted first but with improper cleanliness guidelines being followed can then transfer to clients and customers

In this instance...any restrictions are likely due to poor prevention measures in private settings.

Shame really...selfish people are harming others and businesses.
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  #45  
Old 10-10-2020, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
I think most businesses can handle mitigation and keep open.

Problem is private social gatherings causing a spike in businesses...generally employees impacted first but with improper cleanliness guidelines being followed can then transfer to clients and customers

In this instance...any restrictions are likely due to poor prevention measures in private settings.

Shame really...selfish people are harming others and businesses.
Unfortunately you have retreated from facts and retreated to imagination and emotion.
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  #46  
Old 10-10-2020, 10:52 PM
WildBillG WildBillG is offline
 
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Sundancefisher do you even read your responses. It sounds to me like you want the officials in our homes telling us how to live. Wakke up man you are asking for tptal conrol over our lives. May be you better go hand your guns in now I hear they spread Covid too.
Looks like the fact is that the 2 places with the most restrictions have the most cases. Maybe not being so clean and up tight is a better answer. Let people decide for them selves what they want to do. We do not need more government control.
One more thing quit comparing this Covid thing to the Spanish flu it is not even close.
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  #47  
Old 10-11-2020, 05:55 AM
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I doubt the Spanish flu would have even close to the same mortality rate if it happened today. Most of those that died in the 1918 pandemic died due to lack of basic (by today's standards) medical care. If you are hypoxic and require oxygen it doesn't matter if it's caused from influenza or covid. If you don't oxygen get it you will quickly die. That wasn't an option in 1918. Patients are just as sick now, but don't die nearly as often due to interventions that couldn't have been imagined a hundred years ago.
I think you assume a lot that simply isn't so.

How are we really doing with the most vulnerable group. What is the mortality rate among 85 and over who catch this virus?


As I understand it, that rate is around 95% die. That don't sound to me like we are doing any better then they did 100 years ago.

Not only that, very few people under 65 have died from this virus even without treatment. Most don't even go to hospital, they are told to go home and isolate.
At least that's what they told my BIL when he tested positive a few weeks ago.
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  #48  
Old 10-11-2020, 07:09 AM
Smoky buck Smoky buck is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
I think most businesses can handle mitigation and keep open.

Problem is private social gatherings causing a spike in businesses...generally employees impacted first but with improper cleanliness guidelines being followed can then transfer to clients and customers

In this instance...any restrictions are likely due to poor prevention measures in private settings.

Shame really...selfish people are harming others and businesses.
This is merely your opinion. You are making some strong assumptions and accusations. This is not a matter of selfish people but instead just a virus naturally spreading. It will spread anywhere with large numbers of people regardless of precautions. Hence why Edmonton is booming with COVID and in my town outside of Edmonton we have had only 3 (Only one active)documented cases since the start. Almost no one wears masks and very limited change. Population density is what causes Covid19 to spread regardless of precautions

Covid19 infection through community transmission are happening anywhere people congregate or cross paths. It is not restricted to parties or social gatherings. Anytime you go out shopping, to work, gas station, or go anywhere there is one or more other people risk is there

As for businesses being safer then a social gatherings amongst friends do to cleaning protocols that is questionable. There is a great show and even an effort by businesses but these people are not trained in infection control. There is so much that is missed do to a combination of lack of knowledge or just being lazy. The amount of staff that would be needed to keep up with cleaning in high traffic businesses would be far greater then what they have now.

Go for a walk with my wife and she will open your eyes in a hurry. She has lots of experience and training regarding infection control including experience as an auditor. Including certification that only a small number have in western Canada. You would find out in a hurry that the precautions being taken provide a false sense of security at best

It’s a good thing most who contract Covid19 don’t need medical attention and survival rate is much higher then what was predicted. We have way less control of the spread then people want to believe
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  #49  
Old 10-11-2020, 07:16 AM
Scott h Scott h is offline
 
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Originally Posted by KegRiver View Post
I think you assume a lot that simply isn't so.

How are we really doing with the most vulnerable group. What is the mortality rate among 85 and over who catch this virus?


As I understand it, that rate is around 95% die. That don't sound to me like we are doing any better then they did 100 years ago.

Not only that, very few people under 65 have died from this virus even without treatment. Most don't even go to hospital, they are told to go home and isolate.
At least that's what they told my BIL when he tested positive a few weeks ago.
Your BIL wasn't in hospital because he didn't need any advanced care. Not all will. The percentage that do need it will get care that wasn't available 100 years ago and most likely would have died. Here are some real percentages by age group of those that end up in hospital needing further care.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/...9%A565%20years.

Last edited by Scott h; 10-11-2020 at 07:25 AM.
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  #50  
Old 10-11-2020, 07:44 AM
Glion Glion is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Scott h View Post
Your BIL wasn't in hospital because he didn't need any advanced care. Not all will. The percentage that do need it will get care that wasn't available 100 years ago and most likely would have died. Here are some real percentages by age group of those that end up in hospital needing further care.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/...9%A565%20years.
Wow only 17.2% of those over 85 that get it need to go to the hospital. I thought it was higher, I wonder how many of those over 85 would have to go to the hospital for influenza or RSV.
But while we definitely have better care than in 1918 I would argue that as a whole especially the USA is in worse health.
Scott did you look into the statistics that I have been posting concerning "dry tinder" and also the ones comparing covid to the Spanish Flu?
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  #51  
Old 10-11-2020, 07:56 AM
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Wow only 17.2% of those over 85 that get it need to go to the hospital. I thought it was higher, I wonder how many of those over 85 would have to go to the hospital for influenza or RSV.
But while we definitely have better care than in 1918 I would argue that as a whole especially the USA is in worse health.
Scott did you look into the statistics that I have been posting concerning "dry tinder" and also the ones comparing covid to the Spanish Flu?
That 17.2% percent of people would have had to go to the hospital for a stubbed toe as they are likely in very poor health. I think the Alberta Healthcare workers are pumping the hell and spreading fear as it means big $$$$ to them. They have government pensions and this extra work will provide ammunition for future raises and increased budgets. They really don't have any skin in the game.
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  #52  
Old 10-11-2020, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Scott h View Post
Your BIL wasn't in hospital because he didn't need any advanced care. Not all will. The percentage that do need it will get care that wasn't available 100 years ago and most likely would have died. Here are some real percentages by age group of those that end up in hospital needing further care.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/...9%A565%20years.
You are right, my BIL did not need advanced care, in fact he never got sick despite the positive Covid test and his advanced age. He is 73 years young this year.

So tell me how our advanced health care system managed that, without even treating him.

His daughter, my niece also tested positive, lives in the same house and did get sick. Yet he did not.

I wonder how they all would have fared had it been the Spanish flu.
That flu wiped out whole familys.
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  #53  
Old 10-11-2020, 08:24 AM
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That 17.2% percent of people would have had to go to the hospital for a stubbed toe as they are likely in very poor health.
That's exactly the point I've been trying to make.

Clearly the overall health of North Americans has declined markedly since 1918.
And this flu is most dangerous to those with preexisting conditions.

So I wonder how much any difference in death rates there is due to our overall poor health.

Or to put it another way, I wonder if our death rates would be lower if the overall heath of our population was what it was in 1918?

I think it would probably be significantly lower then it is now.

And I think that makes comparisons problematic.
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  #54  
Old 10-11-2020, 08:31 AM
Scott h Scott h is offline
 
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You are right, my BIL did not need advanced care, in fact he never got sick despite the positive Covid test and his advanced age. He is 73 years young this year.

So tell me how our advanced health care system managed that, without even treating him.

His daughter, my niece also tested positive, lives in the same house and did get sick. Yet he did not.

I wonder how they all would have fared had it been the Spanish flu.
That flu wiped out whole familys.
That's the issue with infections, be it covid or H1N1 (Spanish flu), not everyone will respond the same. 100 years ago they may have recovered just fine from the Spanish flu (most did), but there is every chance in the world that your BIL wouldn't have caught it due to the simple fact that at 73 he's already 20 years over the life expectancy of that time period.
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  #55  
Old 10-11-2020, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by KegRiver View Post

So I wonder how much any difference in death rates there is due to our overall poor health.

Or to put it another way, I wonder if our death rates would be lower if the overall heath of our population was what it was in 1918?
Thinking more people would have died in 1918 had they not died of other things prematurely that we don't die from today due to medical advances. We have a lot of extremely unhealthy people, especially older people simply because we have got very good at keeping people alive unnaturally. We have a far larger percentage of the population that are extremely feeble with tons of issues, disease, compromised worn out used up or defective immune systems, etc. The majority of people dying today are these people be they old or young. In 1918 these people would already be dead and not around to have Spanish flue finish them off.
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  #56  
Old 10-11-2020, 11:59 AM
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Goodness sakes. The Covid propaganda needs to end already.

People honestly want to be terrified in their little dystopia.
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  #57  
Old 10-11-2020, 12:08 PM
crazy_davey crazy_davey is offline
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People honestly want to be terrified in their little dystopia.
There are certainly a few of those people here.
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  #58  
Old 10-11-2020, 01:16 PM
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Goodness sakes. The Covid propaganda needs to end already.

People honestly want to be terrified in their little dystopia.
I am beginning to think there is a motive to some people that are continuing to drive the Covid fear agenda. This must have some financial gain for them. They are in a position to collect from the government handouts and are not in a tax paying roll so as to avoid the federal deficit hangover that is on its way. Or maybe they just like the fear.
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  #59  
Old 10-11-2020, 01:20 PM
marky_mark marky_mark is offline
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Goodness sakes. The Covid propaganda needs to end already.

People honestly want to be terrified in their little dystopia.
Yep
If you can’t see that the experts got everything wrong with this whole covid disaster. Well there’s not much help for you. Just stay home, stay scared and yes the sky is falling
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  #60  
Old 10-11-2020, 01:34 PM
crazy_davey crazy_davey is offline
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Just stay home, stay scared and yes the sky is falling
Don’t forget to wear your chin diaper.
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