Covid Second Wave... a comparison to the 1918 Spanish Flu

[glen moa]

I believe the government’s handling of the virus is about what gets the most votes not what is best for the people of Canada.

The government should have started huge projects across Canada months ago to bring the economy back.

All I hear is lies and crickets.

[gman1978]

Originally Posted by glen moa

I believe the government’s handling of the virus is about what gets the most votes not what is best for the people of Canada.

The government should have started huge projects across Canada months ago to bring the economy back.

All I hear is lies and crickets.

We can’t even get rapid tests in this country and that’s part of the reason why the covid testing is a disaster. It’s gotten to the point we’re it’s not about covid anymore it’s trying to navigate all the crappy rules.

[KinAlberta]

Originally Posted by bdub

From an actuary table for the US the chance of dying within a year for a 70 year old man is 2.34%, for an 80 year old - 5.87%.

So we destroy or economy, destroy peoples lives and businesses, destroy our children's chance of a better future for the slightly increased risk of dying from China virus. Its an insane reaction imo.

Percentages, rates, ratios etc. absolutely have to be paired with the numbers they project to create a clear understanding. For instance, one percent of anything sounds like close to nothing but 1% of the US population is close to 4 million people.

Moreover think of the old saying: “its a recession when your neighbour loses his job, a depression when you loose your own job.”

Same sentiments needs to apply to the death of a person (a neighbour’s mother vs. your own mother) as well as economic hardship suffered by those losing jobs and businesses.

Bottom line though is that death is pretty final. Job loss isn’t. The economy is just money. We all waste and blow it on stupid things so its not aways THE MOST IMPORTANT THING that many make it out to be.

Moreover, in the spring when things were “shut down”, there was still a huge proportion of the workforce still working. The economy contracted but was far, far from being destroyed. The while some countries were pummelled, the world generally survived The Great Depression and even WWI and WWII. More recently we all survived the Global Financial Crisis. So i just don't understand the panic and fear of economic volatility. Sad for those directly affected but its not like we haven’t all experienced dramatic losses here in Alberta on a number of occasions.

[roper1]

Originally Posted by bdub

From an actuary table for the US the chance of dying within a year for a 70 year old man is 2.34%, for an 80 year old - 5.87%.

So we destroy or economy, destroy peoples lives and businesses, destroy our children's chance of a better future for the slightly increased risk of dying from China virus. Its an insane reaction imo.

Logic & common sense applied to a molehill trying to become a mountain!

[bdub]

Originally Posted by KinAlberta

Percentages, rates, ratios etc. absolutely have to be paired with the numbers they project to create a clear understanding. For instance, one percent of anything sounds like close to nothing but 1% of the US population is close to 4 million people.

Moreover think of the old saying: “its a recession when your neighbour loses his job, a depression when you loose your own job.”

Same sentiments needs to apply to the death of a person (a neighbour’s mother vs. your own mother) as well as economic hardship suffered by those losing jobs and businesses.

Bottom line though is that death is pretty final. Job loss isn’t. The economy is just money. We all waste and blow it on stupid things so its not aways THE MOST IMPORTANT THING that many make it out to be.

Moreover, in the spring when things were “shut down”, there was still a huge proportion of the workforce still working. The economy contracted but was far, far from being destroyed. The while some countries were pummelled, the world generally survived The Great Depression and even WWI and WWII. More recently we all survived the Global Financial Crisis. So i just don't understand the panic and fear of economic volatility. Sad for those directly affected but its not like we haven’t all experienced dramatic losses here in Alberta on a number of occasions.

I get that death is both final and tragic but it is something we are all going to experience.

Covid is causing huge economic volatility and it's far from over if our governments don't get their heads out of the sand on the economic fallout and their insane ideas on printing our way out of it. We are not in a recession but a depression over this event.

What happened after the last depression we experienced. Economic fallout of the Great Depression led to a huge increase social unrest, the rise of many dictatorships and evil regimes around the world. Of course we can't rewind history but the Great Depression leading up to WW2 and millions of deaths that resulted is not inconsequential. Economic depressions have unpredictable consequences.

I would argue the Covid Depression may cause similar events to those that lead up to WW2. The rise of forms of socialism, facism and communism is happening, not just abroad but in North America. Depressions have a tendency to result in huge political shifts.

Do you think China is getting any weaker or more powerful through this, or Russia? Canada is joined at the hip with the States. If they go, we go. The odds of China and the USA having a shooting war eventually is about 75%. This is based on historical rises and fall of world super powers over recorded history. Ray Dalio has published and talked recently on this a great deal. These possibilities coming up on everyone's radar screens. There is more to this than economic volatility.

[KinAlberta]

Good points but if our society worried about future threats we wouldn’t be in a pandemic now. We would have prepared and no citizen would have treated a new unknown virus as a joke or as something that only kills someone else so its of no concern. We worry about lives today and let tomorrow’s lives worry about their lives tomorrow.

We kick all cans down the road.

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by KinAlberta

Good points but if our society worried about future threats we wouldn’t be in a pandemic now. We would have prepared and no citizen would have treated a new unknown virus as a joke or as something that only kills someone else so its of no concern. We worry about lives today and let tomorrow’s lives worry about their lives tomorrow.

We kick all cans down the road.

This isnt an unknown virus. Coronavirus has been around for years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronavirus

This is SARS 2. We have gotten past SARS 1.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severe..._coronavirus_2

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by KinAlberta

Percentages, rates, ratios etc. absolutely have to be paired with the numbers they project to create a clear understanding. For instance, one percent of anything sounds like close to nothing but 1% of the US population is close to 4 million people.

Moreover think of the old saying: “its a recession when your neighbour loses his job, a depression when you loose your own job.”

Same sentiments needs to apply to the death of a person (a neighbour’s mother vs. your own mother) as well as economic hardship suffered by those losing jobs and businesses.

Bottom line though is that death is pretty final. Job loss isn’t. The economy is just money. We all waste and blow it on stupid things so its not aways THE MOST IMPORTANT THING that many make it out to be.

Moreover, in the spring when things were “shut down”, there was still a huge proportion of the workforce still working. The economy contracted but was far, far from being destroyed. The while some countries were pummelled, the world generally survived The Great Depression and even WWI and WWII. More recently we all survived the Global Financial Crisis. So i just don't understand the panic and fear of economic volatility. Sad for those directly affected but its not like we haven’t all experienced dramatic losses here in Alberta on a number of occasions.

Well said!

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by KinAlberta

Bottom line though is that death is pretty final. J

Death is also inevitable.

As doc Jackson said;

It is frightfully rude to have one foot in heaven only to have some fool drag you back into this world.

At thirty the thought of dying scares the beejeebers out of folks.
At 80 it might seem like blessed relief.

My mom turns 100 in a few months. Every morning when she wakes up nothing around her is familiar to her. Not her room, not her dolls, not her offspring.
It's been that way for nearly ten years now.

At 82 my dad found he could not do even the simplest of tasks that made him feel productive. On that day I saw the light go out of his eyes.
A month later he was dead. No known cause was found, his heart just quit beating.

We demand everything be done to keep our senors alive but has anyone asked them what they want?

Is this for them or for us?

[tri777]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Death is also inevitable.

At thirty the thought of dying scares the beejeebers out of folks.
At 80 it might seem like blessed relief.

My mom turns 100 in a few months. Every morning when she wakes up nothing around her is familiar
to her. Not her room, not her dolls, not her offspring. It's been that way for nearly ten years now.

At 82 my dad found he could not do even the simplest of tasks that made him feel productive. On that day
I saw the light go out of his eyes. A month later he was dead.
No known cause was found, his heart just quit beating.

We demand everything be done to keep our senors alive but has anyone asked them what they want?

Is this for them or for us?

Wow.
Thanks for that post Keg!!
That is such a dose of reality that hits for me!!

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Death is also inevitable.

As doc Jackson said;



At thirty the thought of dying scares the beejeebers out of folks.
At 80 it might seem like blessed relief.

My mom turns 100 in a few months. Every morning when she wakes up nothing around her is familiar to her. Not her room, not her dolls, not her offspring.
It's been that way for nearly ten years now.

At 82 my dad found he could not do even the simplest of tasks that made him feel productive. On that day I saw the light go out of his eyes.
A month later he was dead. No known cause was found, his heart just quit beating.

We demand everything be done to keep our senors alive but has anyone asked them what they want?

Is this for them or for us?

For some but not for all...we simply can't compare one human being at various ages, stages in thier lives to another....my grandma died at 102....got around...with many naps....new who we were....sent out Xmas cards to all...and yup I mean all relatives......

On the other hand my aunt 65....booze, smokes,bad diet....took the injection to pass away cuz she had enough....

We all got various stories to tell of life.....we should be there for them and us as a whole.....but that another debate...

Original opener...comparing 1918 to 2020.....not even the same in comparism at all other than death....we are more effective and efficient getting on top of things now but on the down side we are very quick in adding our uneducated 2cents to everything on the Internet....scary thing is we might even get a following...kinda biblical eh.....

[CMichaud]

As at 27 Oct 20

[KinAlberta]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Death is also inevitable.

As doc Jackson said;



At thirty the thought of dying scares the beejeebers out of folks.
At 80 it might seem like blessed relief.

My mom turns 100 in a few months. Every morning when she wakes up nothing around her is familiar to her. Not her room, not her dolls, not her offspring.
It's been that way for nearly ten years now.

At 82 my dad found he could not do even the simplest of tasks that made him feel productive. On that day I saw the light go out of his eyes.
A month later he was dead. No known cause was found, his heart just quit beating.

We demand everything be done to keep our senors alive but has anyone asked them what they want?

Is this for them or for us?

“Them” and “us” is a strange way to see things but I think that is how the world has split the population into two perceived groupings. Survivors that don't need to care about anything except being able to get to their hair stylists, bars and restaurants* and those that might die early if the virus is let loose around them but are perceived as expendable as they are “not long for this world anyway”.**



*“Essential” workers never stopped working. “Non-essential” were just that, yet many continued working nonetheless.
** collateral damage in ensuring that the “non-essentials” get back to their old jobs

[MountainTi]

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/more-t...k&_gsc=Q6XLSwi


Get off the computer and enjoy the outdoors, turns out it's healthy.
And another reason not to wear a face diaper....blocking the rays

[Stinky Buffalo]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/more-t...k&_gsc=Q6XLSwi


Get off the computer and enjoy the outdoors, turns out it's healthy.
And another reason not to wear a face diaper....blocking the rays

Excellent advice.

Given the nice weather projected for the next few days up here, I am going to stock up on that Vitamin-D, while hoping for the chance to dispense some lead.

[Sundancefisher]

https://calgarysun.com/news/world/sw...id-second-wave

Some big second wave problems starting to be evident.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

https://calgarysun.com/news/world/sw...id-second-wave

Some big second wave problems starting to be evident.

Ya think maybe it’s because they sent all the little carriers back to school? Who would of imagined it would cause a spike in cases? Then preach that we have to put on more restrictions because the second wave they predicted is happening so they can say “I told you so, now just do as we say and all will be ok”.

Sheeple will just blindly follow till the bottom falls out.

[Yukongold]

The so called " third world" viruses are alive and well and kill a way more people than covid. These would include HIV/Aids - tuberculosis and malaria. ( 16 million last year alone )The interesting thing is that covid is being referred to as the " first world" virus. In other words it was the virus spawned by the rich by extensive travel in their quest for more business and the people who can afford to travel and see the world before they die. Because the rich being what they are ......rich...... have influence and access over the best drugs on the planet. This has created a huge shortage of supplies in the third world which is an added burden on the poor in their quest for survival. Newton got it right. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. The worlds poor continue to take the brunt in every crisis.

[AlpineFlyFisher]

9C62B2E8-1A4A-4DCB-82CB-252C6399A3FC.jpeg

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by Yukongold

The so called " third world" viruses are alive and well and kill a way more people than covid. These would include HIV/Aids - tuberculosis and malaria. ( 16 million last year alone )The interesting thing is that covid is being referred to as the " first world" virus. In other words it was the virus spawned by the rich by extensive travel in their quest for more business and the people who can afford to travel and see the world before they die. Because the rich being what they are ......rich...... have influence and access over the best drugs on the planet. This has created a huge shortage of supplies in the third world which is an added burden on the poor in their quest for survival. Newton got it right. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. The worlds poor continue to take the brunt in every crisis.

A different but good perspective. You are correct!

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Death is also inevitable.

As doc Jackson said;



At thirty the thought of dying scares the beejeebers out of folks.
At 80 it might seem like blessed relief.

My mom turns 100 in a few months. Every morning when she wakes up nothing around her is familiar to her. Not her room, not her dolls, not her offspring.
It's been that way for nearly ten years now.

At 82 my dad found he could not do even the simplest of tasks that made him feel productive. On that day I saw the light go out of his eyes.
A month later he was dead. No known cause was found, his heart just quit beating.

We demand everything be done to keep our senors alive but has anyone asked them what they want?

Is this for them or for us?

Relative of mine was feeling horrible at 80. Doc said get use to it. It’s called old age.

3 months later she went to the doc with the same problem. Doc was on vacay. Temp doc said he’d run tests. Tests showed a bad ulcer. The treated it and she recovered. She died at 110 with a sense a humour and all her wits. She enjoyed life and didn’t want it to end.

I respect that immensely.

[KinAlberta]

Creating jobs!

Czech teenagers deployed to overwhelmed hospitals as Covid cases explode
By Scott McLean and Tomas Etzler, CNN, October 30, 2020

"The situation is very serious. The Czech health system never faced such a challenge before. Every day there is an increase of 1,000 sick health care workers. With 10 million people in the Czech Republic, this is a serious number," said Dr. Milan Kubek, president of the Czech Medical Chamber.

As of October 28, according to Kubek, 15,433 health care workers have been sidelined with the virus; almost 3,000 of them are doctors. Most are catching the virus not at work, but on the streets, or from friends or relatives, Kubek believes. The numbers are so high that Czech hospitals are limping along with vital help from volunteers -- who get bonus points for having medical experience -- but beggars can't be choosers.


https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/30/e...ntl/index.html

Hospital overflow sites remain at 'ready,' but officials worry about staffing - Alaska Public Media

COVID-19 hospitalizations are increasing. State data showed just five ICU beds available in Anchorage Thursday, the lowest level so far during the pandemic. The state isn’t preparing the overflow facility just yet. But, if it does, there is a big concern: staffing.

“We have all these alternate care sites in theory, and they’re ready to go. But the question is: will we have staffing?” said Jared Kosin, director of the Alaska State Hospital and Nursing Home Association at a Thursday press conference.

That question is especially critical due to the susceptibility of healthcare workers to COVID spread within a hospital.

https://www.alaskapublic.org/2020/10...bout-staffing/

Utah hospitals 'can't keep up' amid record-breaking surge

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — Utah Gov. Gary Herbert and health officials said Thursday the state may soon need to implement crisis care protocols as hospitals reach a breaking point amid a record coronavirus surge.

Understaffing and a shortage of ICU beds could soon force Utah hospitals to shift to the protocols that dictate how patients will be treated when the system is overloaded.

Utah residents must take public health guidelines and mask-wearing seriously to avoid the drastic measures, health officials said.

“We cannot continue to argue about masking," said Dr. Mark Shah, an emergency physician with Intermountain Healthcare. "We cannot continue to argue about whether this pandemic is real or made up. And we cannot continue to argue that health care will continue to be fine.”

In the past week, ...”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ut...ge/ar-BB1aw8DM

Bolding mine

[KC1]

National Post
Conrad Black
October 23 5 minute read
Good point about covid and the US election

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by KC1

National Post
Conrad Black
October 23 5 minute read
Good point about covid and the US election

Here’s a link

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/con...come-to-an-end

[roper1]

Co-morbidities.........no guff eh.

[KinAlberta]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Here’s a link

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/con...come-to-an-end

Excerpt:

“ But our whole society went cock-a-hoop for the shutdown and are now edging back toward it in Canada and Europe because of increasing incidences of the virus, generally unaccompanied either by increased fatalities or overloading of hospitals. ” - Conrad Black


Explains the chaos in France. It’s all about Trump.


If Trump wins, I wouldn’t be surprised if he declares a national emergency. Maybe even if Trump loses (before the transition date).





.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by KinAlberta

Excerpt:

“ But our whole society went cock-a-hoop for the shutdown and are now edging back toward it in Canada and Europe because of increasing incidences of the virus, generally unaccompanied either by increased fatalities or overloading of hospitals. ” - Conrad Black


Explains the chaos in France. It’s all about Trump.

France is being governed by liberals and forcing policies the people don’t agree with. Shocking hey?

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by KinAlberta

Excerpt:

“ But our whole society went cock-a-hoop for the shutdown and are now edging back toward it in Canada and Europe because of increasing incidences of the virus, generally unaccompanied either by increased fatalities or overloading of hospitals. ” - Conrad Black


Explains the chaos in France. It’s all about Trump.


If Trump wins, I wouldn’t be surprised if he declares a national emergency. Maybe even if Trump loses (before the transition date).





.

Trump said he’s opening back up for business, that the financial burden created by covid is far worse than the effect of the virus itself.

[KC1]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Trump said he’s opening back up for business, that the financial burden created by covid is far worse than the effect of the virus itself.

Common sense

[fishnguy]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Here’s a link

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/con...come-to-an-end

Ok, so the whole world locked up with a few exceptions, and many are going for round two now, because of the election in the US? And next week the pandemic will be over? Solid logic and critical thinking.


On a side note, didn’t we just have yesterday or two days ago 16 people in ICU and today we have 25 here in Alberta?