Undercover conservation officer

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by fordtruckin

I don’t claim to be a journalist of any sort but holy cow that was a painful read!! Definitely more to the story than reported by this joke of a story.

I agree, the person that wrote the article appears to be as lacking in education, as the old man selling fish.

[bucksman]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

That’s even funnier. So from 1997, 21 years ago, they finally nailed him to the wall with a sandwich baggy of fillets... thanx for the laugh! Now he can move on to the next phone call received in 1998... operation mullet man!

21 years hes been selling fish illegally and that's funny

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by bucksman

21 years hes been selling fish illegally and that's funny

Look bucko. Glad he got caught. With a bag of peanuts.

[bucksman]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Look bucko. Glad he got caught. With a bag of peanuts.

10 bags of peanuts but whos counting...

In your opinion, what would be an amount of fish that would require someone to be fined? Just curious

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by bucksman

10 bags of peanuts but whos counting...

In your opinion, what would be an amount of fish that would require someone to be fined? Just curious

1 bag.

[huntsfurfish]

[JD848]

Originally Posted by bucksman

21 years hes been selling fish illegally and that's funny

Well he was exactly 007 moving from country to country,i pretty sure you average boys scout stuck in grade 3 for 8 years that failed his compass test could have put the patch on this guy.

[AB2506]

Originally Posted by skidderman

Am thinking there is a lot more to this story than what is being said.

It is very biased reporting.

[JD848]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

X2 another poacher hits the skids.

He already hit the skids long before he was busted,did you think he just rolled of the red carpet from Hollywood.Next lets go kick the blind.i am sure a few would be in for nailing them for J walking.

[does it ALL outdoors]

Originally Posted by JD848

Most of the FW officers I met were very decent people,even met 2 having sex way back off some road thinking no one would show up.The guy was married and she was single,one thing I told them about doing it in a truck was to shut it off and leave a crack in the window to hear up coming drivers.

I never seen a women move so fast in all my life as I laid on the horn,at first as I approached I thought no one was in the truck,but when I got beside the front of the truck I seen a shoulder and that's when I startled them.

He left his wife and is still with the same girl that was in that truck,i don't think they will ever forget my face.About 20 minutes after I went by the lights came on and they pulled me over,i had a good laugh and told them about shutting the truck off plus I never seen a truck or no one since early morning and they smiled and drove away.Wasn't any of my business ,hell I was young not that long ago.To be all balled in a tight cab like some dog huppen a foot ball would probably put me in the hospital for a day,my back is toast since my accident.

Run into few donkeys ,but there's no perfect system no matter where you work so I take it as it comes.

Now that's funny! Thanks for the laugh.

I think the amount of fish is clouding people's judgement here, the guy broke the law and was caught.

A waste of resources? Probably.

Did a lawbreaker get caught? Yup. Don't see how that's a bad thing.

What if further investigation found a freezer full of fish to be sold, would that be better?

Don't do the crime if your not willing to do the time.

[walking buffalo]

Now that all the righteous angels have sung Three cheers to Enforcement!...


You will be happy to hear next on the list is to bust all the landowners that accept "Gifts" of jerky and booze as "thanks" for access.

[landowner]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Now that all the righteous angels have sung Three cheers to Enforcement!...


You will be happy to hear next on the list is to bust all the landowners that accept "Gifts" of jerky and booze as "thanks" for access.

I’ve actually been warned about that.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by landowner

I’ve actually been warned about that.

And now we have all been warned about Air quality monitors and installers.

[Talking moose]

Laws aside.... would you rather natives sell fish for fancy restaurants in New York City or for albertans table? Laws aside.

[JD848]

Hell no one from New York would eat Alberta mud pouts.

[tri777]

I slept so care free & like a newborn last night knowing a baggie of fillets has been taken off the streets..

[jafo]

He got what he deserved, guilty as charged.

[JD848]

Originally Posted by jafo

He got what he deserved, guilty as charged.

Oka lets test this out,i could be very wrong on my statement,but i'll give it a go.

A cop cannot give a guy 100 bucks for a gram of coke it's illegal,this is why in Canada they use paid informants under contract with the courts because this informant now represents the crown and everything has to be done legally on both sides to enter the evidence into court in order to prove charges laid .If the informant backs out of court nothing goes ahead and charges are dropped even if they spent a million on the case.Because no smart cop is going to want to get charge for illegally abusing his powers.

I don't think FW would pay 500 k for an informant and I don't believe money can be traded for goods in order to lay charges without going through the proper channels .When it is time for court If FW said they made personal buys and having to prove it wasn't personal cash,they would be guilty of abusing there powers and making an illegal trans action,all moneys have to be documented and there's a reasons why,no one is giving 10 bucks for a week sting along with resources for something like this over a long period of time.

In the usa law enforcement can make drug buys and so on,this why in big FW stinks they bring over a least one yank to avoid informants if both countries are in on it.

So who is really the guilty one by the law of the land,i am not a lawyer so if there's one on board let us know if they FW did everything correct.i don't mind being wrong,it's just a topic .

[R3illy]

Interesting how f&w devote their time on investigations. Sask cos will spend 18 months chasing after a guy over a few fish while recent cases in Alberta go on 5 months and net 50+ charges.

Let that sink in when you guys think the sask case was okay. It's a massive use of resources for little gain.

Can you imagine how badly they wanted this guy that they spent their first 6 months attempting to buy fish from the guy but they never could!!!

[bucksman]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Now that all the righteous angels have sung Three cheers to Enforcement!...


You will be happy to hear next on the list is to bust all the landowners that accept "Gifts" of jerky and booze as "thanks" for access.

Read the regs

[bucksman]

He sold one person 10 bags of fish. There are complaints dating all the way back to 1997,so fish and wildlife decide to stop what was happening. Why are their people defending this guy?

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by R3illy

Interesting how f&w devote their time on investigations. Sask cos will spend 18 months chasing after a guy over a few fish while recent cases in Alberta go on 5 months and net 50+ charges.

Let that sink in when you guys think the sask case was okay. It's a massive use of resources for little gain.

Can you imagine how badly they wanted this guy that they spent their first 6 months attempting to buy fish from the guy but they never could!!!

Pretty much all law enforcement agencies spend humungous amounts on investigations compared to the results they get. For all we know this guy was big into poaching and sales and was toying with F&W for years. No different than police investigating a multi million drug dealing syndicate for years only to catch them with a gram of coke and a pair of brass nuckles when they make a bust. On the other hand a traffic cop pulls over a semi for a traffic ticket and it ends up in a huge bust of tons of cocaine, meth and heroin.

[ChickakooKookoo]

National Post decided to run the story as well - https://nationalpost.com/news/canada...-worth-of-fish

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by ChickakooKookoo

National Post decided to run the story as well - https://nationalpost.com/news/canada...-worth-of-fish

At least that article was a lot less painful to read, unlike the first article, it appears to have been written by someone that actually passed grade 8.

[MrDave]

So if o only sell a gram of crack to a high school kid, you guys will jump up and down screaming its only a small amount? Let him go... If I get caught selling half a box of shells to someone who is banned is it OK because it was only a small quantity?

Nope I'm still a criminal. I'm guessing that if you are defending this poachers actions, you have a shady view of what's allowed. Are you hinting that you don't care about the law, and that its okay to illegally harvest and sell game?

A member of my family was convicted of transporting illegally obtained moose for some people on the Mameo Beach reserve. She should have known better, just like this guy should have. And as "Outdoorsmen and women" so should you.
Defend a poacher and be assumed to have the same morals as the poacher.
Great job officers. It was lots of work done, and the reward small, but if others are now afraid to sell even $10 of poached fish I'm happy with it.

[R3illy]

can someone point me to a post that defended the guy? Everyone agrees he deserves any punishment they dish out.

The point some disagree with is the length of the undercover operation. Pretty simple. There isnt an unlimited number of man hours that they have to investigate and our f&w dont have enough support as it is.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by R3illy

can someone point me to a post that defended the guy? Everyone agrees he deserves any punishment they dish out.

The point some disagree with is the length of the undercover operation. Pretty simple. There isnt an unlimited number of man hours that they have to investigate and our f&w dont have enough support as it is.

Yup. I think they should of shut er down when he wanted to trade for a pack of smokes! Lol!!!

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by bucksman

Read the regs

Don't you mean the Wildlife Act, Section 49?


------



The Vice article actually included much more accurate reporting than the NP.

Vice quoted much of the information directly from court documents, while the NP made a smoothy from the details.


I suspect these "complaints" had much to do with the commercial fishing co-op on the Lake, business trying to protect their exclusive monopoly.
Or maybe it was just a neighbor's personal grudge resulting from a woman's refusal.
Funny how this investigation couldn't obtain even a shred of evidence that this Poacher sold fish to anyone but themselves....



This is like the case in Lougheed Alberta a few years ago where the undercover officer smooth talked the old man into selling a three little deer racks for a forty bucks....

In both cases, it was only the officer's actions that made the person a criminal. Neither contained ANY evidence that these people trafficked wildlife other than in the sting.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by R3illy

The point some disagree with is the length of the undercover operation. Pretty simple. There isnt an unlimited number of man hours that they have to investigate and our f&w dont have enough support as it is.

Exactly and we also don't know how many man hours over those years were actually spent on this investigation. I suspect it wasn't many and probably none some of those years. I highly doubt there was a squad working on it 24-7 all those years. What it means is he was on the radar during those years but far from a high priority, they interacted with him a few times every once in a while and busted him for a few fish because one of those times he sold them some fish like so many of his type do.

[R3illy]

The guy charged was fined $300 per fish. After fees he will pay about $1150. Apparently there are court ordered publication bans preventing the media from discussing details of the sting. Wonder what their trying to hide with the trial now over.

The one article I read mentioned the guy is at a grade 4 or 5 level education, lives on about $300 a month social assistance from the band. He doesnt even have a phone the article said.

The investigation happened on the reserve land without any the band council being aware.