Rocky / Caroline Lakes

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Fishtracker

Yes, I am entitled to an option about this, as are you. Thank you very much!

These (reservoirs) mentioned do not have many if any (native) trout. The fish remaining in them are (stocked) trout. The bow river system lakes-reservoirs mentioned are all man made. Much different then Northern Alberta.

The trout in the this system are in big trouble compared to Northern Alberta.
In case you haven't heard, this system was ripped apart from a major flood in 2013, an ongoing invasion of Prussian carp, and let's also throw in some Whirling disease. Oh and one more thing, this system has the highest concentration of fisherman in the province. So yeah, it is about the fish!

I think we are in agreement.

I feel we can’t keep doing things the same way any more. Too many parameters have changed. Some dramatically.

I feel we need to think outside the box. Here are a few thoughts along your lines.

1. Angling pressure has increased dramatically. Limits are far too high in many places.

2. Years and years of harvest from the first times European immigrants arrived to today. The amount of biomass removed from these system has to impact fish health and populations. Just like salmon dying in stream impacts productivity so too must removal of fish over time in mountain and foothill streams in Alberta. Historically rivers and streams in Alberta supported far larger numbers of fish. How can we re-inject or boost productivity? Just like the Bow and Crowsnest have produced lots of fish, that has been due in most part to the sewage inflow in the past. That has stopped but benefits remain however likely diminished. Can we try some studies to add fertilizer to the waters to boost bug production?

3. One creek I used to love to fish was blasted by the floods. Few fish remain. Pools all filled in. Why not give a nutrient boost and run equipment down to places that can be reached and dig out some over wintering pools. Also capture some spawning fish and collect eggs and restock.

4. Whirling disease must have impacted trout numbers. In the Bow at the very least they should release Whirling resistant rainbows to strengthen the gene pool.

5. Poaching remains the biggest problem and licence fees should be increased and new fish cops hired.

6. Government managers may not be the most change agile to adjust and change flow with regards to fisheries. We should move it into a user managed system like BC.

7. Bow, Crowsnest, Livingston and others should be classed waters requiring non Albertans to pay a premium like BC did to us.

[highwood]

Originally Posted by Fishtracker

Yes, I am entitled to an option about this, as are you. Thank you very much!

These (reservoirs) mentioned do not have many if any (native) trout. The fish remaining in them are (stocked) trout. The bow river system lakes-reservoirs mentioned are all man made. Much different then Northern Alberta.

The trout in the this system are in big trouble compared to Northern Alberta.
In case you haven't heard, this system was ripped apart from a major flood in 2013, an ongoing invasion of Prussian carp, and let's also throw in some Whirling disease. Oh and one more thing, this system has the highest concentration of fisherman in the province. So yeah, it is about the fish!

You're trying to say Upper and Lower K don't have many/any native trout? Where do you get the stuff you smoke, it must be good.

[Fishtracker]

Originally Posted by highwood

You're trying to say Upper and Lower K don't have many/any native trout? Where do you get the stuff you smoke, it must be good.

I highly suggest you do some reading on the history before you start with the insults my friend. Native vs. stocked & reproducing are 2 different things.

[highwood]

Originally Posted by Fishtracker

I highly suggest you do some reading on the history before you start with the insults my friend. Native vs. stocked & reproducing are 2 different things.

You mean the cutthroat trout and bull trout that happened to persist despite both dams ruining a fabulous cutthroat river? I don't care about the rainbows whatsoever.

[highwood]

Originally Posted by Fishtracker

I highly suggest you do some reading on the history before you start with the insults my friend. Native vs. stocked & reproducing are 2 different things.

No doubt many of the cutthroats reproducing naturally now were stocked 10 or so years ago (upper K specifically). But I have caught cutthroats long before they were stocked in either lake once management of the lakes changed away from rainbows. In some of the lakes tributaries as well as tributaries to the kananaskis river proper there are still pure strain cutthroats that were never stocked. There has always been some natural reproduction of both cutthroat and the resident bulls regardless of the rainbows that were dumped in for years.

[Fishtracker]

Originally Posted by highwood

No doubt many of the cutthroats reproducing naturally now were stocked 10 or so years ago (upper K specifically). But I have caught cutthroats long before they were stocked in either lake once management of the lakes changed away from rainbows. In some of the lakes tributaries as well as tributaries to the kananaskis river proper there are still pure strain cutthroats that were never stocked. There has always been some natural reproduction of both cutthroat and the resident bulls regardless of the rainbows that were dumped in for years.

Some history for you!

[highwood]

Pdf won't open, try again? Regardless, lower K has always had resident bulls and cutthroat, as well as the K river and tributaries. Upper K and upper K river above the lake are not fertile fisheries and historically had no fish whatsoever if I remember correctly. No matter what they stock in upper, they will struggle to have any recruitment with the lack of suitable spawning tributaries. I'm sure the upper K falls immediately above the lake don't help with that, but it sure is a nice spot to visit.

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[Fishtracker]

Originally Posted by highwood

Pdf won't open, try again? Regardless, lower K has always had resident bulls and cutthroat, as well as the K river and tributaries. Upper K and upper K river above the lake are not fertile fisheries and historically had no fish whatsoever if I remember correctly. No matter what they stock in upper, they will struggle to have any recruitment with the lack of suitable spawning tributaries. I'm sure the upper K falls immediately above the lake don't help with that, but it sure is a nice spot to visit.

Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

Not sure why it will not open for you.

Anyway, the document indicates they started stocking these lakes with Cutthroats (non native) as far back as 1914. The upper lake had no fish at all before that time. The few (native) Cutthroats in the lower lake died off due to lack of spawning habitat, but the (native) Bulls survived.

They are never going rebound unless action is taken. It's heartbreaking to watch these lakes continue on the downward spiral.

So why not create a stocking program just like all the other ponds and continue to stock these lakes (Upper & Lower K, Barrier L, Ghost L, Glenmore Res.) EVERY year. At the least these fish will not die from winterkill, and lot's would probably survive to become nice sized fish. As some of these lakes already support trophy sized trout, both Cutthroats and Rainbows & Browns.

[Mr Flyguy]

How did a simple inquiry about Rocky/Caroline lakes drift over to arguing over the Kananaskis and other systems. Stay focused folks and keep your eyes on that indicator!

[smitty9]

Originally Posted by Fishtracker

Not sure why it will not open for you.

Anyway, the document indicates they started stocking these lakes with Cutthroats (non native) as far back as 1914. The upper lake had no fish at all before that time. The few (native) Cutthroats in the lower lake died off due to lack of spawning habitat, but the (native) Bulls survived.

They are never going rebound unless action is taken. It's heartbreaking to watch these lakes continue on the downward spiral.

So why not create a stocking program just like all the other ponds and continue to stock these lakes (Upper & Lower K, Barrier L, Ghost L, Glenmore Res.) EVERY year. At the least these fish will not die from winterkill, and lot's would probably survive to become nice sized fish. As some of these lakes already support trophy sized trout, both Cutthroats and Rainbows & Browns.

From the report you linked. Circular argument, yeah? Reservoirs are not ideal unless you have stable water levels. Wasted money indeed.

[Fishtracker]

Originally Posted by smitty9

From the report you linked. Circular argument, yeah? Reservoirs are not ideal unless you have stable water levels. Wasted money indeed.

This data is from 25 years ago, ecosystems change. Stay away from K-lakes please, more trophy fishing for the rest of us who know better!

Suppose you think Ghost & Glenmore don't have the potential to support any trophy fish either...

[goldscud]

Not much change to the ecosystem at Lower Kan. There is a tiny bit more spawning habitat available since 2013, and winter draw-down appears to be a bit less drastic.
Government made an error in decreasing stocking size of Cutts back to tiny fish. Survivorship of stocked fish was far greater when they used yearling fish (less predation by Bulls). Adding fingerlings is not a good use of resources. Perhaps stocking a limited number of 2 year old Cutts could bump up catch rates without hurting the condition factor of resident fish too much. That number would have to be worked out. Holding fish over at the hatchery is expensive and disrupts the usual routine

[Fishtracker]

Originally Posted by goldscud

Not much change to the ecosystem at Lower Kan. There is a tiny bit more spawning habitat available since 2013, and winter draw-down appears to be a bit less drastic.
Government made an error in decreasing stocking size of Cutts back to tiny fish. Survivorship of stocked fish was far greater when they used yearling fish (less predation by Bulls). Adding fingerlings is not a good use of resources. Perhaps stocking a limited number of 2 year old Cutts could bump up catch rates without hurting the condition factor of resident fish too much. That number would have to be worked out. Holding fish over at the hatchery is expensive and disrupts the usual routine

Yes, agreed something must have changed in the last 25 years, as there are is enough food to currently grow thumper Bulls and Cutts, Rainbows.

Yeah, they could look at some 12" stockers or larger. Maybe Ghost, Glenmore and Barrier would be ok with the regular 6-8" sizes.

Not sure what's more expensive at the end of the day, stocking at remote lakes with helicopters, multiple stocking per season into lakes that are cleaned out in a month, or yearly stocking at lakes subject to winterkill, that require the set-up and maintenance of aeration units and fencing, with liability concerns.

[SNAPFisher]

Originally Posted by Mr Flyguy

How did a simple inquiry about Rocky/Caroline lakes drift over to arguing over the Kananaskis and other systems. Stay focused folks and keep your eyes on that indicator!

Don't worry. Fishtracker has it all figured out. This should burn itself out soon...

[Fishtracker]

Originally Posted by SNAPFisher

Don't worry. Fishtracker has it all figured out. This should burn itself out soon...

SNAPfisher, you are going to need to step it up with a much more intelligent response then that, if you expect those of us to stop standing up for our Bow River system & reservoirs which are/were considered to many a top trout fishing destination in North America! Also, this system has (by far) the highest level of fishing pressure in the entire province.

SNAPfisher, maybe you could enlighten us with your response to the below questions!

How many fish have been stocked in the Bow River drainage (reservoirs) in the last 10 years?

How many Bow River drainage (reservoirs) currently have trophy trout swimming alive and well year after year with the potential to continue to grow more trophies?

How many Bow River drainage (reservoirs) are subject to winterkill?

When people ask why the subject went from Rocky/Caroline to the Bow River system, is because the powers that be, feel it was a great idea to dump 124,000, yes I’ll repeat 124,000 Trout into 1 single lake which just had a significant winterkill strong enough to kill the Pike! While many of us sit here and continue to watch the entire Bow River system go to **** without any kind of replenishment of fish in recent memory.

If this mentality continues, God help us!

[flyrodfisher]

Originally Posted by flyrodfisher

Perhaps you should email SRD and ask them why the lakes you mentioned are not being stocked.

I'll say it again.....

[SNAPFisher]

Originally Posted by flyrodfisher

I'll say it again.....

No kidding x 10

[highwood]

Originally Posted by snapfisher

no kidding x 10

lol

[fishinhogdaddy]

Spent five days fishing Beaver.
Not a Chronie guy. Pulled leeches and casted dries when the weather and fish were cooperating. Not too many large fish caught by anyone we could see. Most fish caught were closer to the banks on nymphs or micro leeches. Only one larger fish hooked but not landed. Mostly rainbows. Saw very few tigers being hooked.
Water 51 degrees and it was quite windy. Had the scare of a lifetime when I heard a loud crack and a dead tree tumbled into the water in the high winds a short distance from me.
Saturday was the most boats for the time I was there. Fish were on the bottom mostly and we dredged to try to catch a few. Didn’t happen. Lovely spot and very enjoyable being out despite our own lack of catching a couple monsters or tigers. Birch looked nice but we did not fish it.
There is a sailboat out there that someone anchors to the shoreline. He/they were out on the weekend but I wonder if leaving it there is something that is not allowed? I realize there is no overnite camping but what would prevent them from sleeping on it? Anyway, the wind beat the hell out of it on Weds. pulling whatever anchors he had holding it up and the boat is now resting against some dead snags.
Wonderful to get out and spend some time with my best friend before he has back surgery and will be out of commission for the rest of the summer.
Be well and healthy all.
FHD