Arrow Heads

[Alephnaught]

Fascinating thread!

BTW, who else had the thought that Red Bullets may be messing with the OP, seeding his search area with flintknapped points?

[Iceman4]

Here are some the wife's grandpa found around the family farm near Baytree when he was a kid.

[Bigrib]

A neighbour farmed south of Grassy Lake where there was a battle with all kinds of stone artifacts found over the years , conical warclub heads and many arrow heads . He had quite a collection they found over the same area for years

My uncle with his brothers found some Indian graves on a coulee bank when they were kids , started digging it up but the sun was going down , they got scared and filled it back in , lol . Good thing as it could have been infected with smallpox which can still remain viable for a long time

[Red Bullets]

Originally Posted by Alephnaught

Fascinating thread!

BTW, who else had the thought that Red Bullets may be messing with the OP, seeding his search area with flintknapped points?

Too Funny! Not a bad idea.

*Note to self: " Make some points, stick a couple into an old buffalo skull and then call David Suzuki about a newly discovered ancient buffalo kill site."

Actually, I will see if I can get a picture of my friends best find. He has an old buffalo skull plate with a stone point stuck in the forehead. Amazing to contemplate the hunt that must have been. The point is quite big so it is most likely 3 to 5 thousand years old.

[bb356]

Originally Posted by Alephnaught

Fascinating thread!

BTW, who else had the thought that Red Bullets may be messing with the OP, seeding his search area with flintknapped points?

[drhu22]

[drhu22]

Originally Posted by Alephnaught

Fascinating thread!

BTW, who else had the thought that Red Bullets may be messing with the OP, seeding his search area with flintknapped points?

It seemed that a couple of them looked suspiciously unworn, but who am I to say? (wink)

[Big Grey Wolf]

Guys be careful how many you find as I understand in Alberta we are not allowed to retain archiological artifacts, must be turned over to a museum.

[MrWestNotKanye]

For someone who doesn't know, can someone explain who was using these arrowheads and when? From the posts, it seems they are all over Alberta? So, are we talking Indian tribes from hundreds of years? Thousands of years ago? Are you saying there was once an arrow attached to them that has rotted away? Would you guess that these are all "lost" by the hunter while hunting? What, the hunter spent a few days making arrowheads, and then doesn't go looking for his lost arrow?
If they are coming to the surface now, with the help of the wind, does that mean hundreds of years of topsoil is now gone? Were these farmed and cleared of trees land at some point? What is 10 feet further down? What was 5 feet further up in soil now gone? And wouldn't the date on the coin give us a hint as to an age range of the arrowhead?

[Looper]

Originally Posted by MrWestNotKanye

For someone who doesn't know, can someone explain who was using these arrowheads and when? From the posts, it seems they are all over Alberta? So, are we talking Indian tribes from hundreds of years? Thousands of years ago? Are you saying there was once an arrow attached to them that has rotted away? Would you guess that these are all "lost" by the hunter while hunting? What, the hunter spent a few days making arrowheads, and then doesn't go looking for his lost arrow?
If they are coming to the surface now, with the help of the wind, does that mean hundreds of years of topsoil is now gone? Were these farmed and cleared of trees land at some point? What is 10 feet further down? What was 5 feet further up in soil now gone? And wouldn't the date on the coin give us a hint as to an age range of the arrowhead?

Well I am no expert but I will pass on what I've learned. First, the coins are out of Dale's pocket. Just a size reference. Projectile point is the proper term. Includes spear tips, which are generally much older, than arrowheads. Some may have been lost, some are simply broken and were discarded. They were used by natives since the ice melted, some believe approx. 10,000 years ago. The point would be relative to what animal was being hunted. A mammoth would require a pretty serious weapon. The smaller points are often referred to as "birdies" obviously for hunting birds, but i am sure other small game as well. Often after strong wind or heavy rain these points become exposed. A cultivated field is a logical place to find them. If under a layer of sod you would have to dig to locate. Interesting thing archeologists have determined some of the material these are made from does not exist in this area. It was imported from someplace else and likley traded. Every bit as interesting as projectiles are knives, scrapers, and hammers. I have seen an incredible collection, but myself dont have that much luck.

If Dale reads this post he likley can add more info. He knows alot about it.

Looper.

[Looper]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

Guys be careful how many you find as I understand in Alberta we are not allowed to retain archiological artifacts, must be turned over to a museum.

I believe thats on crown land. On land you own or have permission its fine to keep them.

Looper

[bb356]

https://albertashistoricplaces.wordp...t-ambassadors/

[benamen]

We found this on the beach last summer in the Meadow Lake Park. Does this look authentic?

[MrWestNotKanye]

Originally Posted by Looper

First, the coins are out of Dale's pocket. Just a size reference.

Oh I'm not so sure. I think this Dale character is using a metal detector searching for coins and is dropping imitation plastic arrowheads from the Indian Trading Post in Banff.

[Ronji]

We spent hours when we were kids looking for arrowheads as kids, but we never found one. Meanwhile, people we know looking in a different field would find them.
Those arrowheads you got there Red look awesome. Far cry from the broadheads we use now.

[Sooner]

Originally Posted by MrWestNotKanye

Oh I'm not so sure. I think this Dale character is using a metal detector searching for coins and is dropping imitation plastic arrowheads from the Indian Trading Post in Banff.

Are you serious? Hope your just attempting to be funny

From your other post you wonder how much soil has blown away. Ask any farmer how many rocks come up from the deep every year. That's probably how these items make their way to the top. The southern ab winds just help expose them faster after the spring thaw pushes them ever closer to the top. At least that's my thoughts on how they get found after so many years.

[bat119]

Relics can be found all over my Dad found this back in early 60's by Kindersley it served as the doorstop that killed Custer or so my Dad said.
[IMG][/IMG]

I took it to the museum of natural history in Regina to donate back in the 90's they told me unless the exact location was known it was useless historically and the "hide pounders" are a common find. The museum also said an accurate age is not possible because they were used for hundreds of years to pound hides or sinews to make arrows.

If only it could speak

[MrWestNotKanye]

Originally Posted by Sooner

Are you serious? Hope your just attempting to be funny

:

[Big Red 250]

Originally Posted by Looper

Well I am no expert but I will pass on what I've learned. First, the coins are out of Dale's pocket. Just a size reference. Projectile point is the proper term. Includes spear tips, which are generally much older, than arrowheads. Some may have been lost, some are simply broken and were discarded. They were used by natives since the ice melted, some believe approx. 10,000 years ago. The point would be relative to what animal was being hunted. A mammoth would require a pretty serious weapon. The smaller points are often referred to as "birdies" obviously for hunting birds, but i am sure other small game as well. Often after strong wind or heavy rain these points become exposed. A cultivated field is a logical place to find them. If under a layer of sod you would have to dig to locate. Interesting thing archeologists have determined some of the material these are made from does not exist in this area. It was imported from someplace else and likley traded. Every bit as interesting as projectiles are knives, scrapers, and hammers. I have seen an incredible collection, but myself dont have that much luck.

If Dale reads this post he likley can add more info. He knows alot about it.

Looper.

Very well said. Couldn't put it any better myself. I also believe that most artifacts are not buried very deep in the soil as I believe farm implements pull them up along with the frost. I find most of mine right on the surface. Their not only in Alberta, they have been found everywhere. For every perfect one, I've likely found 6 or 8 broken ones.

[260 Rem]

Originally Posted by benamen

We found this on the beach last summer in the Meadow Lake Park. Does this look authentic?

Looks like some in my grandfathers collection. He reckoned the purpose of that shape/design was to cut flesh when it was pulled out, or maybe worked its way out?

[Dale S]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

Guys be careful how many you find as I understand in Alberta we are not allowed to retain archiological artifacts, must be turned over to a museum.

The artifacts are the property of the Alberta gov. We are the stewardships of the artifact. The top archaeologists of Alberta have look at my collection. They like my collection, but they weren't interested in keeping it. Surface finds are no good for research. Mine are all surface finds.
The gov. has so many archaeologist sites, it only studies the best sites. Many will never get looked at. The gov. also has the biggest collection of artifacts. Thousands of pieces. They aren't interested in retaining private collections.
I believe the biggest reason for the rules, is so you can't sell them. Which would open a whole can of worms.
Fossils are the same.

[Dale S]

Originally Posted by drhu22

It seemed that a couple of them looked suspiciously unworn, but who am I to say? (wink)

My best two. They are mint. The small one is serrated.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[Big Red 250]

Originally Posted by Dale S

The artifacts are the property of the Alberta gov. We are the stewardships of the artifact. The top archaeologists of Alberta have look at my collection. They like my collection, but they weren't interested in keeping it. Surface finds are no good for research. Mine are all surface finds.
The gov. has so many archaeologist sites, it only studies the best sites. Many will never get looked at. The gov. also has the biggest collection of artifacts. Thousands of pieces. They aren't interested in retaining private collections.
I believe the biggest reason for the rules, is so you can't sell them. Which would open a whole can of worms.
Fossils are the same.

Museums sell artifacts all the time. I was going to donate mine to our local museum when I lived in Manitoba and was told by staff that they sell excess arrowheads to other museums or on ebay to raise funds to help keep the museum up and running.
As a matter of fact, there was a member on here about 6 or maybe 8 years ago selling a couple of arrowheads that his wife had inherited from her dad's estate. I think he was from Hinton or Edson, around there anyways.

[Dale S]

Originally Posted by MrWestNotKanye

For someone who doesn't know, can someone explain who was using these arrowheads and when? From the posts, it seems they are all over Alberta? So, are we talking Indian tribes from hundreds of years? Thousands of years ago? Are you saying there was once an arrow attached to them that has rotted away? Would you guess that these are all "lost" by the hunter while hunting? What, the hunter spent a few days making arrowheads, and then doesn't go looking for his lost arrow?
If they are coming to the surface now, with the help of the wind, does that mean hundreds of years of topsoil is now gone? Were these farmed and cleared of trees land at some point? What is 10 feet further down? What was 5 feet further up in soil now gone? And wouldn't the date on the coin give us a hint as to an age range of the arrowhead?

These are in chronological order.
L to R
1,2&3 Prairie Side notched. 1100 -250 years B.P. Before Present.
4 Avonlea Arrow Points 1350-1100 B.P.
5 Besant Dart Point. 2500-1350 B.P.
6 Pelican Lake Dart Points 3600-2100 B.P.
7Hanna Dart Point 3900-3500 B.P.
8 McKean Dart Point 4200-3500 B.P.
9 Oxbow Dart Point 4500- 4100 B.P.
10 Hell Gap Spear Point.(broke) 10200-9600 B.P.
All but #10, they killed millions of buffalo with this over the 10000 years these people were here. That's a lot of points to be found today.
#10, I like to think it was in a mammoth. That's my story and I'm sticking with it.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[Dale S]

Originally Posted by benamen

We found this on the beach last summer in the Meadow Lake Park. Does this look authentic?

For sure. Looks like a MaKean Dart Point. It has been resharpened down lots.

[Red Bullets]

Originally Posted by Dale S

These are in chronological order.
L to R
1,2&3 Prairie Side notched. 1100 -250 years B.P. Before Present.
4 Avonlea Arrow Points 1350-1100 B.P.
5 Besant Dart Point. 2500-1350 B.P.
6 Pelican Lake Dart Points 3600-2100 B.P.
7Hanna Dart Point 3900-3500 B.P.
8 McKean Dart Point 4200-3500 B.P.
9 Oxbow Dart Point 4500- 4100 B.P.
10 Hell Gap Spear Point.(broke) 10200-9600 B.P.
All but #10, they killed millions of buffalo with this over the 10000 years these people were here. That's a lot of points to be found today.
#10, I like to think it was in a mammoth. That's my story and I'm sticking with it.
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

Very nice collection. Sad that the stone point maker trade died out. Exceptional workmanship.

Number 8. Why don't you consider this style to be an older clovis point ? I know it is small but is distinctive to the clovis style of point.

[Dale S]

Originally Posted by Red Bullets

Very nice collection. Sad that the stone point maker trade died out. Exceptional workmanship.

Number 8. Why don't you consider this style to be an older clovis point ? I know it is small but is distinctive to the clovis style of point.

That's what I thought when I found it. But it's just to small with no fluting at all.

[bergman]

Here's a good site for ID'ing points
http://www.projectilepoints.net
it has the McKean points, looks legit.

And if hunting has become too easy for you, try knapping your own points like this guy. https://youtu.be/1VCYlg9w7dE

A guy in the US did penetration tests with the little 'bird points' on a deer to show they were effective in taking down deer. He had pass through double lung shots (on a previously shot deer). But I guess in Alberta you would still need to meet arrowhead width requirements

[Big Red 250]

A great book to have to identify points is an Overstreet Book of Native points. The bigger book stores usually have them or can get them.

[benamen]

A few rocks my neighbour has in his back yard. The one rock by itself is another view of the gouged out rock.