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  #61  
Old 08-04-2020, 03:14 PM
raab raab is offline
 
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Raab, you have me confused. In this thread you are talking about Alberta schools but in the other one you said, "If the democrats win, the freedom we've enjoyed for the last 200 years in this world, will be a thing of the past."

Do you live in the US or Alberta? If Alberta, how does our freedom hang on Trump winning the next US election? I realize I am confusing two threads here, but that's because you've confused me.
The freedom we enjoy in Canada, is a direct result of our proximity to the US for the last 200 years and the Atlantic Charter Churchill signed in 1941. If freedom falls in the US, the rest of the world falls with it. Our current government is directly attacking those freedoms, and it may not be long until you can not go or do anything without government permission. Trudeau has already said he greatly admires the CCP.
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  #62  
Old 08-04-2020, 03:19 PM
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You did not indicate that the infectivity of children is not proven. You said there is no such thing. I can agree that more study is needed but not that there is NO transmission from children to others.
I would suggest that if children did indeed cause transmission it would be known by now. Even though its plausible kids may spread the virus, the data shows they are not major contributors to the spread and pose little risk to the community at large.
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  #63  
Old 08-04-2020, 03:22 PM
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I spoke with a teacher (that is very pro mask) the other day regarding masks. During a trip to Calgary he wore a mask for 2 hours and the next day he had a debilitating headache. The kind of headache that created a very low function day. Lots of rest, low sunlight, damp cloth on eyes, etc.. I asked him how he would be able to teach consistently if wearing a mask on Day 1 caused him to be in such distress on Day 2? He didn't know.

This is going to be an issue that will have to be addressed. Physical distress brought on by prolonged mask usage.
I've worn masks daily for many hours at a time. I've done it for decades. I don't particularly like wearing them but I do it cuz I've seen a lot of people on ventilators and that is substantially worse.
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  #64  
Old 08-04-2020, 03:23 PM
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The psychological effects of being constantly worried they may be infected with a virus, or they may infect/hurt others at a young age will be interesting to see.

I'm not a psychologist, but I can't see how going into a situation of paranoia will be good for the kids, despite all evidence showing theres nothing to be worried about with regards to the schools.
But you say it’s not transmitted at that age so why worry? Tell them they will be fine then. When kids go to school they will be learning ABCs and such not about the direct impacts of the virus.

There is always a chance of infection of many different viruses in the world even before this one, has it had a detrimental effect on your own life?
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  #65  
Old 08-04-2020, 03:29 PM
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But you say it’s not transmitted at that age so why worry? Tell them they will be fine then. When kids go to school they will be learning ABCs and such not about the direct impacts of the virus.

There is always a chance of infection of many different viruses in the world even before this one, has it had a detrimental effect on your own life?
Has any other virus forced school shutdowns and kids to change behaviour? The fact is they'll be in a constant state of fear at school being worried about the spread. Not to mention the job the teachers will have to do trying to keep them separated, and clean. It's going to be complete chaos and I don't envy the teachers one bit. Either open them up normally or keep them closed. If its so dangerous that they need to wear a mask, then I don't think anyone should be going there anyways.

As it is my child has already had one traumatizing incident due to a school lockdown. She doesn't need anymore.
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  #66  
Old 08-04-2020, 03:37 PM
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I think for the most part, kids are going to pull them off their faces the second the person in authority is not around. We like to think they can be responsible, but kids are kids.

Heck, when I was in k/early elementary school I used to have to wear a patch over my left eye because I was born virtually blind in my right eye as it was not fully developed and needed to be strengthened or I would end up permanently blind in it, and while I understood, I didn't care because it sucked so the second the teacher was gone or mom was not around I would rip that sucker off and you guessed it... Permanently blind now in my right eye. (yes I know it was stupid)

That isn't an argument to say yay or nay to masks. Just saying kids won't care about covid (for the most part).
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  #67  
Old 08-04-2020, 03:38 PM
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I've worn masks daily for many hours at a time. I've done it for decades. I don't particularly like wearing them but I do it cuz I've seen a lot of people on ventilators and that is substantially worse.
Are you downplaying others having debilitating side effects of wearing a mask because you personally do not have physical side effects? You are fortunate, others may not be so lucky.
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  #68  
Old 08-04-2020, 03:38 PM
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Has any other virus forced school shutdowns and kids to change behaviour? The fact is they'll be in a constant state of fear at school being worried about the spread. Not to mention the job the teachers will have to do trying to keep them separated, and clean. It's going to be complete chaos and I don't envy the teachers one bit. Either open them up normally or keep them closed. If its so dangerous that they need to wear a mask, then I don't think anyone should be going there anyways.

As it is my child has already had one traumatizing incident due to a school lockdown. She doesn't need anymore.
Actually there was another similar outbreak that closed schools.....

https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2...e-spanish.html
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  #69  
Old 08-04-2020, 03:56 PM
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Actually there was another similar outbreak that closed schools.....

https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2...e-spanish.html
1918 and Covid are not even in the same realm, the data is clear on that. My argument is that Children are not major contributors to transmission, therefore making schools safe to re-open normally.

If you feel students should wear a mask, and are at risk. My question is why are we sending them back into a dangerous environment? It's my view that if the educational institutions are that dangerous, then no one should be entering them. Students and teachers are not healthcare providers, and temporarily delaying their studies is not the end of the world.
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  #70  
Old 08-04-2020, 04:13 PM
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1918 and Covid are not even in the same realm, the data is clear on that. My argument is that Children are not major contributors to transmission, therefore making schools safe to re-open normally.

If you feel students should wear a mask, and are at risk. My question is why are we sending them back into a dangerous environment? It's my view that if the educational institutions are that dangerous, then no one should be entering them. Students and teachers are not healthcare providers, and temporarily delaying their studies is not the end of the world.
I assume you believe that they're not in the same realm because of the lower mortality rate associated with covid vs H1N1? You do realize that a rather large percentage of the 18% hospitalized with covid would have died 100 years ago. It's rather silly to think that modern medicines and procedures had no effect on lowering the covid rate.

Because this is an experiment. There will be children and adults that get infected through this. I would bet that there will be many schools throughout Canada and the US that shut down rather quickly after the September start because there's nothing that will get a politicians attention faster than a bunch of children that end up in an ICU.

Last edited by Scott h; 08-04-2020 at 04:19 PM.
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  #71  
Old 08-04-2020, 04:15 PM
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The freedom we enjoy in Canada, is a direct result of our proximity to the US for the last 200 years and the Atlantic Charter Churchill signed in 1941. If freedom falls in the US, the rest of the world falls with it. Our current government is directly attacking those freedoms, and it may not be long until you can not go or do anything without government permission. Trudeau has already said he greatly admires the CCP.
I thought that the Atlantic Charter led, more or less directly, to the United Nations. Trump, and the conservative Republicans, do not support the United Nations, but the Democrats do.

Trump does not support, and has substantially weakened NATO. I am not a historian but I believe that many think that NATO had a lot to do with facing down totalitarian threats to our democracy.

Let us suppose that Trump loses the next election. What has suddenly, and drastically, changed in the Democratic party that would cause a loss of freedom in the US or the world at large? There have been plenty of Democrats in power over the last couple of centuries.

I don't like Trudeau any more than you do. However, the only area that I can positively identify in which the Liberals are a threat to personal freedom is their warped ideas on firearm violence. What other rights are they attacking?

Not necessarily arguing, but in need of clarification.

If this doesn't belong in this thread, let's go back to where it does work.
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  #72  
Old 08-04-2020, 04:21 PM
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This is such nonsense. I feel bad for the kids, this whole thing is a gong show. The world has lost its collective mind over an over-exaggerated flu that has killed a whopping 0.003% of the earths population with the majority of those deaths being the exceedingly elderly and infirmed. I cant believe how many people are bowing down to this and just taking it.
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  #73  
Old 08-04-2020, 04:25 PM
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Repeat post. Somehow.
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  #74  
Old 08-04-2020, 04:30 PM
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Talked to three families today. Due to this announcement they are pulling their kids from school. I imagine this will be widespread.
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  #75  
Old 08-04-2020, 04:32 PM
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It's an absolute joke with the masks - all of it. Hinshaw gets dumber by the minute & changes things so often it's no wonder there is so much doubt in everything (she's definitely not the only one). I've heard her say it several times now "You must wash hands before putting a mask on & again before removing it every single time for it to be properly effective". Now from what I've seen most adults who are on board with the whole mask thing aren't doing this let alone school kids. Everyone out & about with the same mask on & off many times in a day meanwhile touching many random surfaces with the same hands that don & remove mask - this is the reality that I've witnessed. Masks in my mind will actually make the spread worse not better.
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  #76  
Old 08-04-2020, 04:36 PM
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Masks in my mind will actually make the spread worse not better.
It is not just in your mind. There are very credible studies that support this.
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  #77  
Old 08-04-2020, 04:41 PM
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It is not just in your mind. There are very credible studies that support this.
I'm to the point with all of this BS that I don't trust anyone else's opinion, study etc. form either side of it. The only thing I trust anymore is what I observe with my own eyes & my gut instinct.
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  #78  
Old 08-04-2020, 04:45 PM
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Talked to three families today. Due to this announcement they are pulling their kids from school. I imagine this will be widespread.
In what region?
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  #79  
Old 08-04-2020, 04:47 PM
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I assume you believe that they're not in the same realm because of the lower mortality rate associated with covid vs H1N1? You do realize that a rather large percentage of the 18% hospitalized with covid would have died 100 years ago. It's rather silly to think that modern medicines and procedures had no effect on lowering the covid rate.

Because this is an experiment. There will be children and adults that get infected through this. I would bet that there will be many schools throughout Canada and the US that shut down rather quickly after the September start because there's nothing that will get a politicians attention faster than a bunch of children that end up in an ICU.
You're looking at the numbers of confirmed infected. We need to look at the numbers for total population as many should have been exposed to the virus by now. The fact is a total of 2% of the population has shown symptoms, and a total of .03 percent has died. If you add the .11% currently hospitalized you get .14% of total population for mortality.

In 1918 the world population was around 1.8-1.9B and killed 100M people. Putting it at a 5.25% mortality rate versus total population. 1918 was also unique in that it killed healthy middle aged people, not the elderly and young who are normally most at risk.

As you can see your comparing a virus with a .14% mortality rate with one that caused a 5.25% mortality rate which puts them in two different realms in terms of severity.
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  #80  
Old 08-04-2020, 04:54 PM
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You're looking at the numbers of confirmed infected. We need to look at the numbers for total population as many should have been exposed to the virus by now. The fact is a total of 2% of the population has shown symptoms, and a total of .03 percent has died. If you add the .11% currently hospitalized you get .14% of total population for mortality.

In 1918 the world population was around 1.8-1.9B and killed 100M people. Putting it at a 5.25% mortality rate versus total population. 1918 was also unique in that it killed healthy middle aged people, not the elderly and young who are normally most at risk.

As you can see your comparing a virus with a .14% mortality rate with one that caused a 5.25% mortality rate which puts them in two different realms in terms of severity.
You're spewing crap.

New Zealand had a different approach than most of the rest of the world, and very much better results. In fact, it's pretty much back to normal there.

https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/...es-coronavirus
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  #81  
Old 08-04-2020, 05:05 PM
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I thought that the Atlantic Charter led, more or less directly, to the United Nations. Trump, and the conservative Republicans, do not support the United Nations, but the Democrats do.

Trump does not support, and has substantially weakened NATO. I am not a historian but I believe that many think that NATO had a lot to do with facing down totalitarian threats to our democracy.

Let us suppose that Trump loses the next election. What has suddenly, and drastically, changed in the Democratic party that would cause a loss of freedom in the US or the world at large? There have been plenty of Democrats in power over the last couple of centuries.

I don't like Trudeau any more than you do. However, the only area that I can positively identify in which the Liberals are a threat to personal freedom is their warped ideas on firearm violence. What other rights are they attacking?

Not necessarily arguing, but in need of clarification.

If this doesn't belong in this thread, let's go back to where it does work.
You are correct in both the bolded statements.
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  #82  
Old 08-04-2020, 05:07 PM
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Talked to three families today. Due to this announcement they are pulling their kids from school. I imagine this will be widespread.
Good. Classes are too big as it is.
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  #83  
Old 08-04-2020, 05:08 PM
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Good. Classes are too big as it is.
Now four.

And not in our area. We have three schools in an area that should have no more than two. It’s unfortunate as I suspect come fall 2021 the smallest of the three might just be gone. That’s a lot of people looking for work.
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  #84  
Old 08-04-2020, 05:11 PM
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Everyone out & about with the same mask on & off many times in a day meanwhile touching many random surfaces with the same hands that don & remove mask - this is the reality that I've witnessed. Masks in my mind will actually make the spread worse not better.
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Originally Posted by horsepower View Post
It is not just in your mind. There are very credible studies that support this.
I would appreciate a link to the research that shows masks contribute to the spread of Covid-19. Maybe I'm Googled out . Anyway, I'd appreciate the help.

The people who don't even try to use a mask properly are contributing to my loss of faith in the human race. When this started, I did a simple Google search and immediately found directions. Since I drive to the shopping centre, I use hand sanitizer and then put on my mask, making sure I do not touch the front. I shop for no more than an hour or so and then return to the car. I hand sanitize and carefully remove my mask and put it in a bag. Then I hand sanitize again. I rarely shop more than once a day but I have a second mask if I need it. From what I read, the virus does not remain infectious after a day or so on cotton cloth so I don't go shopping for at least another two days. Right now, the temperatures in my car are reaching +40C, which some studies show inactivates the virus in a few hours. The masks are good to go then for sure. If I needed to shop more often, I would have more masks.

Why is this difficult?
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Old 08-04-2020, 05:15 PM
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I would appreciate a link to the research that shows masks contribute to the spread of Covid-19. Maybe I'm Googled out . Anyway, I'd appreciate the help.

The people who don't even try to use a mask properly are contributing to my loss of faith in the human race. When this started, I did a simple Google search and immediately found directions. Since I drive to the shopping centre, I use hand sanitizer and then put on my mask, making sure I do not touch the front. I shop for no more than an hour or so and then return to the car. I hand sanitize and carefully remove my mask and put it in a bag. Then I hand sanitize again. I rarely shop more than once a day but I have a second mask if I need it. From what I read, the virus does not remain infectious after a day or so on cotton cloth so I don't go shopping for at least another two days. Right now, the temperatures in my car are reaching +40C, which some studies show inactivates the virus in a few hours. The masks are good to go then for sure. If I needed to shop more often, I would have more masks.

Why is this difficult?
Why are you shopping for an hour daily? I don’t shop that much (an hour) in two weeks.
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Old 08-04-2020, 05:19 PM
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I hope all these folks that are pulling their kids out of school know how much actual work it is to teach children. Sure some folks have a good background to do it, or they believe the world is it’s own teaching but once they go back they have to be up to snuff. Even full home schooling has checks and balances.

CBE has put together a “learning hub” for kids that will be staying home, but mentioned that this isn’t emergency teaching like we just finished it’s full on and if you don’t go in for September you won’t be able to put them back in till next February. I’ve heard that Texas is only allowing it every 90 days too. Big commitment for something that a lot of folks don’t see as an actual threat, especially on this site.
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Old 08-04-2020, 05:19 PM
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I thought that the Atlantic Charter led, more or less directly, to the United Nations. Trump, and the conservative Republicans, do not support the United Nations, but the Democrats do.

Trump does not support, and has substantially weakened NATO. I am not a historian but I believe that many think that NATO had a lot to do with facing down totalitarian threats to our democracy.

Let us suppose that Trump loses the next election. What has suddenly, and drastically, changed in the Democratic party that would cause a loss of freedom in the US or the world at large? There have been plenty of Democrats in power over the last couple of centuries.

I don't like Trudeau any more than you do. However, the only area that I can positively identify in which the Liberals are a threat to personal freedom is their warped ideas on firearm violence. What other rights are they attacking?

Not necessarily arguing, but in need of clarification.

If this doesn't belong in this thread, let's go back to where it does work.
The Atlantic Charter did lead to the UN. And once upon a time the UN actually stood for something. They need to get back to standing for something, and kick China out. China being on the human rights council while they keep innocent people in concentration camps and harvest their organs is deplorable.

Covid has changed everything. The Democratic States are locking people in their homes and have far stiffer restrictions. You also have Biden's ties to China, and the democratic party has gone far left.

Trudeau is attacking our sovereignty by devaluing the currency. Printing 300 billion dollars in one year will come back to bite us. On top of that he is making people reliant on the government for their income in the form of CERB and CESB. Then you have his handouts to big corporations while small business suffers. We also have to look at the work of his father. We're well on our way to a totalitarian state.
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  #88  
Old 08-04-2020, 05:24 PM
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Covid 19 stats in alberta

Population: 4.3 million
Deaths: 196

97% of deaths had underlying health condition

Chances of dying from the vid in Alberta: 0.000045

Chances of dying if you have no underlying health condition:0.00000144
(6 so far)

Average age of death: 84 years old


My disappointment in mankind grows more every day (reading these threads enforces the disappointment).
There was a day when common sense was....well....common....
20 years ago I would have never believed people could be so easily herded!
Boy was I wrong!!
We're swirling to the right at breakneck speed (or is it left and Australia's right)?
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Old 08-04-2020, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by roughneckin View Post
I hope all these folks that are pulling their kids out of school know how much actual work it is to teach children. Sure some folks have a good background to do it, or they believe the world is it’s own teaching but once they go back they have to be up to snuff. Even full home schooling has checks and balances.

CBE has put together a “learning hub” for kids that will be staying home, but mentioned that this isn’t emergency teaching like we just finished it’s full on and if you don’t go in for September you won’t be able to put them back in till next February. I’ve heard that Texas is only allowing it every 90 days too. Big commitment for something that a lot of folks don’t see as an actual threat, especially on this site.
How do you mean?
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Old 08-04-2020, 05:33 PM
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How do you mean?
As you stated above the last post.
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