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  #91  
Old 06-10-2017, 08:59 AM
Deer Hunter Deer Hunter is offline
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The media is full of interpretation and misinformation.
I'm not sure what to believe, so believe very little of it
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  #92  
Old 06-10-2017, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter View Post
What surprises me (not) is some of the more Liberal members of this site who are willing to throw a gun shop/owner under the bus because they have never heard of a store or seen the business on the net.....????????

These are probably the same Gunnies who cheered when Harper lost the last election, (and you know you are) and will pretend to whine the loudest when the new rules under the child king come into effect.....shame on you.
What the heck are you smoking? Firstly, how is what I noted about their online invisibility "throwing them under the bus"? Secondly, how is my noting that they looked like a completely legitimate business "throwing them under the bus"? If you can string a coherent explanation of that together I'll be dumbfounded......

Funny how I'm also 'more liberal' considering how the liberals I know think I'm far right. I guess people get thrown off by my not being a racist and consider that to be sole territory of liberals. So far you're batting 0 for 3 ....

Then again you might be referring to another member, if so I digress.
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  #93  
Old 06-10-2017, 12:53 PM
qwert qwert is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Deer Hunter View Post
The media is full of interpretation and misinformation.
I'm not sure what to believe, so believe very little of it
While searching for a cite for the attributed Twainism
'those who do not read newspapers are uninformed, those who do are misinformed',

I found similar from T. Jefferson,
"The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them;
inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors."
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  #94  
Old 06-10-2017, 02:24 PM
nube nube is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Newview01 View Post
My fear on this case is the liberal media (Lethbridge Herald in this case) will put their own spin on the story, and only provide ammo for the antis.
A lot of the outcome will depend on who the judge is. One is a Liberal woman and if they end up in her court they will get hung. There are 2 others that I know and hope they end up with one of them for some reasons I will not mention here but those 2 would be the best case for a judge..
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  #95  
Old 06-10-2017, 02:37 PM
alta270 alta270 is offline
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A lot of the outcome will depend on who the judge is. One is a Liberal woman and if they end up in her court they will get hung. There are 2 others that I know and hope they end up with one of them for some reasons I will not mention here but those 2 would be the best case for a judge..
So go for a trial by jury. That is always the fallback.
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  #96  
Old 06-10-2017, 04:34 PM
13mileranch 13mileranch is offline
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Originally Posted by nube View Post
A lot of the outcome will depend on who the judge is. One is a Liberal woman and if they end up in her court they will get hung. There are 2 others that I know and hope they end up with one of them for some reasons I will not mention here but those 2 would be the best case for a judge..
Which ever way it goes on the first round of Judges, it will likely go up the ladder and out of the local arena.
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  #97  
Old 06-10-2017, 05:33 PM
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Hardy Boys mystery. Everybody is speculating
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  #98  
Old 06-10-2017, 10:07 PM
700-223 700-223 is offline
 
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Interesting how attitudes change over time. Way back when a FAC was supposed to last for life. Now most people are completely on board with showing a PAL to buy ammo. Only 10 years since we had the amnesty and 22? Years since the liberals brought in the damn rifle registry and the PAL system. I actually got my PAL because my father still had my 22 from when I was a kid as well as a shotgun he bought for going on horseback trips but hadn't bothered to convert his FAC to a PAL. So, I got mine as the fact that he could face jail time for failing to do paperwork troubled me.

We've all gotten used to it, but I'm pretty skeptical it keeps firearms or ammo out of the wrong hands. Now these guys definitely should have been following the rules, but they could have done anything from intentionally trafficking to criminal elements to making a habit of not checking PAL's when farmer Bob came to buy a box of ammunition.

Plays the same in the media and according to the law as far as I can tell, but a big $:/(& difference between the two. In my mind, one is careless and one is criminal. Wonder which one this will turn out to be.

I remember buying 22 shells at the local hardware store as a 10 year old and rifle racks (and rifles) in the back windows of lots of pickups. Don't remember anyone shooting up parliament hill or shooting it out with the Mounties back then though. It's almost as if violent crime is related to social and economic factors more than regulations that only affect the law abiding (and place them in legal jeopardy). Can't say I feel any safer these days either. YMMV.
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  #99  
Old 06-11-2017, 07:15 AM
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^^Well said 700-223^^
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  #100  
Old 06-11-2017, 07:32 AM
Newview01 Newview01 is offline
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Originally Posted by 700-223 View Post
It's almost as if violent crime is related to social and economic factors more than regulations that only affect the law abiding (and place them in legal jeopardy).
This.

Not enough kids are going hunting and fishing these days. Would solve a lot of problems.
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  #101  
Old 06-11-2017, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by 700-223 View Post
Interesting how attitudes change over time. Way back when a FAC was supposed to last for life. Now most people are completely on board with showing a PAL to buy ammo. Only 10 years since we had the amnesty and 22? Years since the liberals brought in the damn rifle registry and the PAL system. I actually got my PAL because my father still had my 22 from when I was a kid as well as a shotgun he bought for going on horseback trips but hadn't bothered to convert his FAC to a PAL. So, I got mine as the fact that he could face jail time for failing to do paperwork troubled me.

We've all gotten used to it, but I'm pretty skeptical it keeps firearms or ammo out of the wrong hands. Now these guys definitely should have been following the rules, but they could have done anything from intentionally trafficking to criminal elements to making a habit of not checking PAL's when farmer Bob came to buy a box of ammunition.

Plays the same in the media and according to the law as far as I can tell, but a big $:/(& difference between the two. In my mind, one is careless and one is criminal. Wonder which one this will turn out to be.

I remember buying 22 shells at the local hardware store as a 10 year old and rifle racks (and rifles) in the back windows of lots of pickups. Don't remember anyone shooting up parliament hill or shooting it out with the Mounties back then though. It's almost as if violent crime is related to social and economic factors more than regulations that only affect the law abiding (and place them in legal jeopardy). Can't say I feel any safer these days either. YMMV.
Those were the days my friend, two young lads, pocket full of 22's and off we go...hmmmm what went wrong...stupid phones and games of mass destruction...people had the same problems then as now but maybe our techy world got in the way

Laws are a good thing but when they do not pertain to all then they are just guidelines because it opens up another avenue to fight the law if one gets something and another doesn't based on a culture, race, belief, etc, yet we are all Canadians...won't be fixed until the powers that be realize that...someone will always squeeeeeek...sad state of affairs all around.
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  #102  
Old 06-11-2017, 08:36 AM
wildbill wildbill is offline
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Originally Posted by 58thecat View Post
Those were the days my friend, two young lads, pocket full of 22's and off we go...hmmmm what went wrong...stupid phones and games of mass destruction...people had the same problems then as now but maybe our techy world got in the way

Laws are a good thing but when they do not pertain to all then they are just guidelines because it opens up another avenue to fight the law if one gets something and another doesn't based on a culture, race, belief, etc, yet we are all Canadians...won't be fixed until the powers that be realize that...someone will always squeeeeeek...sad state of affairs all around.
The only thing that has changed is our disconnected government started placing blame on the guns, instead of the nut jobs allegedly using them. Usually criminals that use guns are killing each other (which IMO isn't necessarily a bad thing). If the laws were a little more lenient then maybe there'd be less criminals, just like a few years ago when Surrey had that record number of homicides (25 in a year) the majority of which are gangs. I bet my house that 90% are unsolved, the guns alot of these guys are getting come from the states, that bc bud is being traded to criminals south of the border for guns and cocaine. That seems to be the typical knee-jerk reaction of our government, look at the gun registry, a prime example of just sheer stupidity and waste. The big problem is there are too many morons in this country voting for morons, and as long as morons keep voting for morons everyone will evolve into morons. Just look at the West coast of BC, that is why sane people like the ones on this forum will never have a voice, because the bulk of the population is naive to what the real problem is, they believe people like Turdeau, like come on he's a drama teacher for crying out loud!!!! K&D provided a good service and was a good place to go if you needed something when you were down that way. I'm sorry , I don't agree with our laws, but I do respect and abide by them. This is gonna be a good dust up, it ain't over, these guys ain't gonna lay down and die.
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  #103  
Old 06-11-2017, 09:06 AM
alta270 alta270 is offline
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Originally Posted by Newview01 View Post
This.

Not enough kids are going hunting and fishing these days. Would solve a lot of problems.

THIS is why AO members are here.

I agree with you, and I thought that may never happen.
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  #104  
Old 06-11-2017, 09:48 AM
qwert qwert is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildbill View Post
snip
The big problem is there are too many morons in this country voting for morons, and as long as morons keep voting for morons everyone will evolve into morons. Just look at the West coast of BC, that is why sane people like the ones on this forum will never have a voice, because the bulk of the population is naive to what the real problem is, they believe people like Turdeau, like come on he's a drama teacher for crying out loud!!!! K&D provided a good service and was a good place to go if you needed something when you were down that way. I'm sorry , I don't agree with our laws, but I do respect and abide by them. This is gonna be a good dust up, it ain't over, these guys ain't gonna lay down and die.
'Voters get the Government they deserve'.

Whether all those on this forum are completely sane or knowledgeable is open for judgement,
but we are certainly failing to communicate the message we should.

Good Luck, YMMV.
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  #105  
Old 06-11-2017, 02:21 PM
Belus Belus is offline
 
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In my humble opinion, even if a gun store clerk, owner, counter person, sales staff, what ever you want to call them, don't ask for my PAL, I'm still obligated to show it to them, to prove, that I am eligible to purchase firearms, and ammo.
So, it is a two way street. Why only one side, on this case the store owners, have been blamed? Unless they were framed.
We don't know all the facts yet, and afraid we will never will.
But this kind of news doesn't help the law abiding gun owners in the province and in all the others.

Belus
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  #106  
Old 06-11-2017, 07:16 PM
ryeguy21 ryeguy21 is offline
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Im confused why people think the news article was that sensational. It wasnt. They reported the number of guns and ammo and anything else that was seized. There isnt a conspiracy here.

If a company has legal obligations they must do as part of their every day business then this should be taken very seriously.

There are a lot of businesses that have legal obligations. For example banks.. car dealerships.. real estate brokerages.

Who the heck would ignore your legal obligation that could have life altering repercussions if you chose to ignore them? Stupidity and ignorance of the law is no excuse. Mistakes happen but for charges to be laid id guess its not a simple case of a one time mistake.
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  #107  
Old 06-11-2017, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ryeguy21 View Post
Im confused why people think the news article was that sensational. It wasnt. They reported the number of guns and ammo and anything else that was seized. There isnt a conspiracy here.

If a company has legal obligations they must do as part of their every day business then this should be taken very seriously.

There are a lot of businesses that have legal obligations. For example banks.. car dealerships.. real estate brokerages.

Glad people say the gun dealers are good guys but who the heck would ignore your legal obligation that could have life altering repercussions if you chose to ignore them? Stupidity and ignorance of the law is no excuse.
The news report claimed that they had 1000 firearms and 1 million rounds of ammo. Heck, last time I was at Wholesale sports, they couldn't even make such a claim. Sounds like a bunch of trumped of BS to me on the cop's part.
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  #108  
Old 06-11-2017, 07:44 PM
ryeguy21 ryeguy21 is offline
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That would be slander and would look very unfavourably in court. That would be beneficial to them in the long run if it was a bunch of trumped up bs.

Personally I dont see how the police benefit by lying and ruining their case.
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  #109  
Old 06-11-2017, 07:53 PM
Norwest Alta Norwest Alta is offline
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The sensational part of the story is a million rounds of ammunition. A million sounds compared to a crate of 22lr, a pallet of 7.62x39 and 12 cases of 12 gauge trap loads.
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  #110  
Old 06-12-2017, 10:52 AM
ryeguy21 ryeguy21 is offline
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Police sensationalize drug busts by claiming the drugs seized are worth way more then they actually are using funny math to make the bust seem bigger then it is. Thats more sensational then reporting the number of rounds confiscated.

Why should the police break down individual rounds confiscated then cases and then pallets? You can describe it a million different ways. Id guess anyone struggling with this case wouldnt be happy regardless what was written in the article.
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  #111  
Old 06-12-2017, 03:32 PM
Norwest Alta Norwest Alta is offline
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Originally Posted by ryeguy21 View Post
Police sensationalize drug busts by claiming the drugs seized are worth way more then they actually are using funny math to make the bust seem bigger then it is. Thats more sensational then reporting the number of rounds confiscated.

Why should the police break down individual rounds confiscated then cases and then pallets? You can describe it a million different ways. Id guess anyone struggling with this case wouldnt be happy regardless what was written in the article.
Don't know drug business so couldn't say but 1000 joints sound worse to me than a ounce of pot. Just saying a million rounds to someone that has never been in a gun store might think that's a lot when in actual fact it probably isn't much more than a good selection to choose from.
Not struggling with the case at all.
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  #112  
Old 06-12-2017, 03:48 PM
nube nube is offline
 
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It's southern Alberta which means gopher heaven! My buddy alone bought 5000 rounds fro this store this spring just for his 22 alone. Farmers there buy tons of ammo just to give to people to go and shoot gophers. Sounds funny some farmer would do that but I read somewhere once that it was like 50 gophers that equals what a cow could eat. I would bet 75% of the ammo was 22 and bulk ammo for SKS type firearms.
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  #113  
Old 06-12-2017, 05:13 PM
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And you'd be right nube ..

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
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  #114  
Old 06-12-2017, 05:15 PM
Norwest Alta Norwest Alta is offline
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And you'd be right nube ..

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
Glad you said it but I'll agree. Lol
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  #115  
Old 06-12-2017, 05:20 PM
bobalong bobalong is offline
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Originally Posted by ryeguy21 View Post
That would be slander and would look very unfavourably in court. That would be beneficial to them in the long run if it was a bunch of trumped up bs.

Personally I dont see how the police benefit by lying and ruining their case.
It kept many of them from going to jail at High River, pretty big benefit I would say.
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  #116  
Old 06-14-2017, 10:38 PM
Gifted Intuitive Gifted Intuitive is offline
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Default Confiscation of Purpose

First one has to understand or grasp the desire to confiscate.

Please read this:

http://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc...04abqb831.html
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  #117  
Old 06-17-2017, 06:24 AM
Newview01 Newview01 is offline
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First one has to understand or grasp the desire to confiscate.

Please read this:

http://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc...04abqb831.html
A note that stands out -
[25] I do order that all of the exhibits be forfeited to the Crown.

The desperation in the whole case clearly demonstrates the desire to confiscate.

It is unfortunate that there are still firearm owners who don't see this.
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  #118  
Old 06-17-2017, 06:53 AM
dgl1948 dgl1948 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by ryeguy21 View Post
That would be slander and would look very unfavourably in court. That would be beneficial to them in the long run if it was a bunch of trumped up bs.

Personally I dont see how the police benefit by lying and ruining their case.
Seems like they have no problem at all when it comes to lying. They did to the highest court in the land as well as parliament when it came to the long gun registry.
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  #119  
Old 06-17-2017, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Newview01 View Post
A note that stands out -
[25] I do order that all of the exhibits be forfeited to the Crown.

The desperation in the whole case clearly demonstrates the desire to confiscate.

It is unfortunate that there are still firearm owners who don't see this.
The exhibits referred to in para. 25, would have been the box of 22, the box 9mm and the case of 9mm sold to Cst. Clover. The Accused was found guilty of Unauthorized transfer under Sec. 101 C.C.

What should the courts have ordered??????

"Even though you sold this ammo illegally and received money for it, here you can have it back to sell it again."

That sure sounds reasonable.
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  #120  
Old 06-17-2017, 08:52 AM
Newview01 Newview01 is offline
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The exhibits referred to in para. 25, would have been the box of 22, the box 9mm and the case of 9mm sold to Cst. Clover. The Accused was found guilty of Unauthorized transfer under Sec. 101 C.C.

What should the courts have ordered??????

"Even though you sold this ammo illegally and received money for it, here you can have it back to sell it again."

That sure sounds reasonable.
Were those the only exhibits seized by the crown? My understanding would be that they would seize his assets as part of the investigation. I could be wrong.

My other point was that the crown destroys the exhibits as opposed to selling them for a profit, if the defendant is guilty. This should not be the case.
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