Another reloading question

[Sitting Bull]

As you all know by now I am a fairly new reloader and have a question.
I had developed a load for my .243 with 39gr of IMR4350 and some 100gr Speer BTSP. I could not find Speer's anywhere so I bought Hornady interlock 100gr BTSP. Should I start with a new development from lowest to max. or do you think I could start 1gr lower all the way to max?
What do you think the odds of the same load with the Speer's would work with the Hornady"s ?
Thanks guys.

[Ariu]

They are both C&C bullets. In terms of pressure, you do not need to start from low to high. Both loads are well below max pressure with 39gn IMR4350.
If you had the best node @ 39gn, I would start @ 38.5gn and go from there.

Hornady book does not have the IMR4350 listed for that cartridge, they have a 40.8gn max for H4350.

[brewster29]

My old Speer #10 manual shows max 42.0 gr of IMR 4350 with a 105 gr bullet. My old Hornady manual shows max 41.4 with their 100 gr bullets. You are loaded mild at 39.5 with a 100 gr pill. I certainly would not worry at all about switching to Hornady 100's. I have always found it useful to keep older manuals around.

If you pm me your phone # I will send you a pic of the Hornady manual pages.

Cheers
Bruce

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by brewster29

My old Speer #10 manual shows max 42.0 gr of IMR 4350 with a 105 gr bullet. My old Hornady manual shows max 41.4 with their 100 gr bullets. You are loaded mild at 39.5 with a 100 gr pill. I certainly would not worry at all about switching to Hornady 100's. I have always found it useful to keep older manuals around.

If you pm me your phone # I will send you a pic of the Hornady manual pages.

Cheers
Bruce

There are 2 reasons loads have been reduced in the .243.
1. Better pressure trace technology showed the cartridge was prone to pressure spikes that exceeded design pressures. The old copper crusher pressure testing method didn’t show these spikes.
2. Powder burn rates change over the years, your dads 4350 isn’t the same as the 4350 being produced today.(think of it as cumulative lot to lot differences)

OP: Take a grain off of max published at a minimum.

[brewster29]

Hodgdon on line data still shows max 42.0 gr IMR 4350 with 100 Speer bullets, pressure is 50,100 cup. No change from my 1979 Speer manual at all.

[Cooeylover]

I’ve went with different brands and bullet types before with my .243 and .308 staying with the same bullet weight, same charge weight, and still been in the same ballpark groupings. Mind you I don’t competition shoot or anything, if it groups sub MOA I’m happy.
I don’t go up to max loads either so it gives me that bit of forgiveness.
When I start changing powders is when it gets groups all over the paper.
Just my experiences.

[32-40win]

Load a few at 1.5gr under, then 1.0, .5 and your load, if your existing was within 1.0 of max to start with, and and see what it changes, or not. If you were 1.5 or more under already I'd maybe try varying it by 1.0 each way and .5 each way to see what changes it makes. You may find it likes to be seated at a different length too.

[Sitting Bull]

Thank you for the help guys, I will load some up tonight and hopefully get to the range in the next couple days.
In all this I was hoping by using the same bullet weight and design(BTSP) from a different manufacturer, I could use the same load. I will try the same load just to see how much difference between Hornady and speer.
Reloading certainly is fun! with lots to learn.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Sitting Bull

Thank you for the help guys, I will load some up tonight and hopefully get to the range in the next couple days.
In all this I was hoping by using the same bullet weight and design(BTSP) from a different manufacturer, I could use the same load. I will try the same load just to see how much difference between Hornady and speer.
Reloading certainly is fun! with lots to learn.

two different bullets work loads up accordingly to the new ones....she might like'em and she might not....so many variables when it comes to reloading...enjoy the journey.

[colroggal]

Even though reloading is a science, there is a lot of art to it. Even then it mostly COMMON SENSE.

Every reloading manual is just a little bit different just as every lot of powder is just a little bit different. Always err on the side of caution. I'd rather hammer a bullet out of the last few inches of my barrel rather than replace my barrel - or spend the rest of my life explaining the cool scars on my cheek.

Going down a grain won't jam a bullet in the barrel, but it will give you peace of mind and a happy place to start.

When starting with a new load I make a habit of checking at least three different sources and using the lowest starting point. There are times I've gone well beyond listed max loads and times where primer cratering and ejector wipes stopped me well before even the medium max load.

Rifle chambers are like finger prints.

Colin

[6.5 shooter]

I would load a few, 2 - 3 grs. lower, Check for pressure signs then work up to your known load in 1 gr. jumps.Check for pressure signs seat 3-5 bullets at your target weight Check for pressure signs if they shoot like the other brand of bullets? you are only out a few rounds of components and you will know you are safe.

[southernman]

I ran your load threw quick load, 100gr speer BTSP, and 39gr IMR 4350, 22" barrel is coming out at 44600psi and a speed of about 2680fps,
with the Hornady 100gr BTSP I get 44869psi pressure and 2682 fps,
I wouldn't reduce the load at all, substuate the 100gr Hornady sp for the Speer, and check for accuracy,
you have a pile of pressure room, (15000) psi, and can easily push that 100gr to close to 3000fps.
here is sum data from quick load for you to look at,
.243 win pressure spec is 60191 psi, i set load table to for 57000psi

Cartridge : .243 Win.
Bullet : .243, 100, Hornady BTSP 2453
Useable Case Capaci: 49.611 grain H2O = 3.221 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.710 inch = 68.83 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 57000 psi, or 393 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 112 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

244 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 100%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
ReloadSwiss RS 76 *C 105.3 51.8 3.36 3114 100.0 57000 13918 1.131 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N570 *C 110.1 53.1 3.44 3050 92.8 57000 14531 1.126 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 80 *C 109.3 54.2 3.51 3041 96.1 57000 14160 1.131 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-33 *C 111.7 55.4 3.59 3030 93.3 57000 14310 1.128 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-25 *C 106.8 48.6 3.15 3027 100.0 57000 12881 1.123 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 2 *C 109.3 50.0 3.24 3019 97.7 57000 13532 1.136 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP30 109.3 50.0 3.24 3019 97.7 57000 13532 1.136 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560 *C 100.7 47.0 3.05 3012 96.5 57000 13440 1.127 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 12 103.5 50.5 3.27 3009 97.7 57000 13244 1.122 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 517 103.7 50.6 3.28 3008 97.6 57000 13260 1.122 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 105.1 46.7 3.03 3002 97.0 57000 13068 1.117 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO 101.0 49.1 3.18 2996 95.1 57000 13436 1.136 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation 100.9 46.6 3.02 2992 98.2 57000 13011 1.133 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22 *C 100.9 46.6 3.02 2992 98.2 57000 13011 1.133 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA15 *C 100.9 46.6 3.02 2992 98.2 57000 13011 1.133 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP15 103.6 46.9 3.04 2990 98.1 57000 13012 1.134 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WXR 103.6 46.9 3.04 2990 98.1 57000 13012 1.134 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2225 112.0 51.5 3.34 2989 99.3 53889 13431 1.150 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Retumbo 112.0 51.5 3.34 2989 99.3 53889 13431 1.150 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2213 100.3 46.4 3.01 2988 96.9 57000 12915 1.115 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N565 *C 105.4 49.5 3.21 2987 96.8 57000 13291 1.149 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AP 2214 104.3 49.5 3.21 2976 97.2 57000 12760 1.116 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-23 *C *T 103.4 46.3 3.00 2975 100.0 57000 11921 1.139 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum 101.0 50.3 3.26 2973 98.8 57000 12497 1.127 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H1000 *T 109.6 49.6 3.21 2973 97.2 57000 12721 1.116 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2217 109.6 49.6 3.21 2973 97.2 57000 12721 1.116 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2218 112.0 54.6 3.54 2972 90.9 54951 14357 1.137 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R905 102.1 46.3 3.00 2959 96.5 57000 12628 1.132 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP5 NT *C ~approximation 103.8 48.4 3.14 2947 94.7 57000 12594 1.120 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 *T 102.9 45.7 2.96 2927 96.1 57000 12150 1.126 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori 24N41 *C 111.5 54.3 3.52 2911 85.7 57000 12674 1.127 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S071 106.9 46.2 2.99 2907 99.6 57000 11652 1.165 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 3100 101.0 46.2 2.99 2907 99.6 57000 11652 1.165 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N165 *C 103.1 46.6 3.02 2903 98.5 57000 11613 1.139 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 217 *C 112.0 50.4 3.27 2888 97.5 47345 13495 1.234
Vihtavuori N160 *C 103.0 45.1 2.92 2886 96.9 57000 11535 1.132 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N170 *C 112.0 50.7 3.28 2879 90.9 56118 12224 1.159 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H870 112.0 52.9 3.43 2867 92.0 48217 13496 1.222
Lovex D100 109.1 53.7 3.48 2858 87.0 57000 11825 1.139 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-50 *C 112.0 55.4 3.59 2830 88.7 46010 13727 1.265
IMR 7977 Enduron *C*T 104.3 47.2 3.06 2820 88.7 57000 11127 1.133 ! Near Maximum !

Neither of the 4350 powders, showed up on the table, as you can see, you have a fair bit of performance, you can pick up, if so desired.

[southernman]

I had to drop the load ratio down to 80% to pick up IMR4350,
Cartridge : .243 Win.
Bullet : .243, 100, Hornady BTSP 2453
Useable Case Capaci: 49.611 grain H2O = 3.221 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.710 inch = 68.83 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 57000 psi, or 393 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 112 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

149 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 80%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
ReloadSwiss RS 76 *C 105.3 51.8 3.36 3114 100.0 57000 13918 1.131 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N570 *C 110.1 53.1 3.44 3050 92.8 57000 14531 1.126 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-26 *C 98.2 48.3 3.13 3050 100.0 57000 13257 1.137 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 80 *C 109.3 54.2 3.51 3041 96.1 57000 14160 1.131 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-33 *C 111.7 55.4 3.59 3030 93.3 57000 14310 1.128 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-25 *C 106.8 48.6 3.15 3027 100.0 57000 12881 1.123 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP *C 99.0 47.2 3.06 3023 99.2 57000 13289 1.133 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP30 109.3 50.0 3.24 3019 97.7 57000 13532 1.136 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 2 *C 109.3 50.0 3.24 3019 97.7 57000 13532 1.136 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 70 *C 95.9 46.7 3.03 3017 99.5 57000 12931 1.118 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560 *C 100.7 47.0 3.05 3012 96.5 57000 13440 1.127 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 60 *T 89.7 43.0 2.79 3009 100.0 57000 11937 1.121 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 12 103.5 50.5 3.27 3009 97.7 57000 13244 1.122 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 517 103.7 50.6 3.28 3008 97.6 57000 13260 1.122 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC 99.4 46.7 3.03 3002 97.0 57000 13068 1.117 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 105.1 46.7 3.03 3002 97.0 57000 13068 1.117 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO 101.0 49.1 3.18 2996 95.1 57000 13436 1.136 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA15 *C 100.9 46.6 3.02 2992 98.2 57000 13011 1.133 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22 *C 100.9 46.6 3.02 2992 98.2 57000 13011 1.133 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation 100.9 46.6 3.02 2992 98.2 57000 13011 1.133 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP15 103.6 46.9 3.04 2990 98.1 57000 13012 1.134 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WXR 103.6 46.9 3.04 2990 98.1 57000 13012 1.134 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2225 112.0 51.5 3.34 2989 99.3 53889 13431 1.150 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Retumbo 112.0 51.5 3.34 2989 99.3 53889 13431 1.150 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2213 100.3 46.4 3.01 2988 96.9 57000 12915 1.115 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N565 *C 105.4 49.5 3.21 2987 96.8 57000 13291 1.149 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-16 *C *T 93.4 41.6 2.70 2985 100.0 57000 11902 1.119 ! Near Maximum !
Elcho 17 88.6 42.5 2.76 2984 100.0 57000 11857 1.129 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17 *T 88.6 42.5 2.76 2984 100.0 57000 11857 1.129 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AP 2214 104.3 49.5 3.21 2976 97.2 57000 12760 1.116 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-23 *C *T 103.4 46.3 3.00 2975 100.0 57000 11921 1.139 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum 101.0 50.3 3.26 2973 98.8 57000 12497 1.127 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2217 109.6 49.6 3.21 2973 97.2 57000 12721 1.116 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H1000 *T 109.6 49.6 3.21 2973 97.2 57000 12721 1.116 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2218 112.0 54.6 3.54 2972 90.9 54951 14357 1.137 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R905 102.1 46.3 3.00 2959 96.5 57000 12628 1.132 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2209 97.2 44.2 2.86 2959 98.0 57000 12345 1.119 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 62 91.9 44.0 2.85 2956 100.0 57000 11977 1.148 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 518 94.0 44.4 2.88 2955 99.5 57000 12197 1.134 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 511 90.2 44.0 2.85 2954 99.6 57000 12131 1.134 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19 *C 97.6 44.6 2.89 2953 98.0 57000 12391 1.128 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 88.0 42.6 2.76 2953 99.2 57000 12160 1.135 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 88.0 42.6 2.76 2953 99.2 57000 12160 1.135 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 93.2 44.0 2.85 2952 99.6 57000 12113 1.135 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S365 94.9 43.2 2.80 2951 100.0 57000 11337 1.144 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP5 NT *C ~approximation 103.8 48.4 3.14 2947 94.7 57000 12594 1.120 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP14 ~approximation 98.3 45.0 2.91 2947 98.0 57000 12300 1.129 ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP *C 92.8 42.0 2.72 2939 100.0 57000 11681 1.139 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP19 ~approximation 92.8 42.0 2.72 2939 100.0 57000 11678 1.139 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 *C 90.1 42.1 2.73 2937 100.0 57000 11793 1.144 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350 92.1 42.1 2.73 2934 100.0 57000 11688 1.158 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon CFE223 *C 84.0 41.9 2.71 2934 100.0 57000 11562 1.135 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 ~approximation 95.7 43.7 2.83 2933 97.8 57000 12087 1.128 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 *C 92.6 43.7 2.83 2933 97.8 57000 12087 1.128 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA4 95.7 43.7 2.83 2933 97.8 57000 12087 1.128 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC *T 98.9 45.7 2.96 2927 96.1 57000 12150 1.126 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 *T 102.9 45.7 2.96 2927 96.1 57000 12150 1.126 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 11 86.6 40.9 2.65 2921 100.0 57000 11237 1.136 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831 97.4 42.6 2.76 2920 100.0 57000 11437 1.149 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S385 97.8 45.2 2.93 2918 98.8 57000 11906 1.149 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895 83.5 38.2 2.48 2916 100.0 57000 11177 1.140 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Big Game 83.8 40.8 2.65 2916 100.0 57000 11140 1.136 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 52 84.2 39.8 2.58 2914 100.0 57000 10959 1.144 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 NT *C ~approximation 93.3 43.3 2.81 2913 99.0 57000 11721 1.140 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori 24N41 *C 111.5 54.3 3.52 2911 85.7 57000 12674 1.127 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP11 ~approximation 84.3 38.6 2.50 2910 100.0 57000 11150 1.139 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15 *C 84.3 38.6 2.50 2910 100.0 57000 11150 1.139 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA11 84.3 38.6 2.50 2910 100.0 57000 11150 1.139 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 3100 101.0 46.2 2.99 2907 99.6 57000 11652 1.165 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S071 106.9 46.2 2.99 2907 99.6 57000 11652 1.165 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester Supreme 780 96.5 46.5 3.01 2907 98.0 57000 11775 1.134 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203B *C 84.7 38.7 2.51 2905 100.0 57000 11050 1.141 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R904 96.4 43.5 2.82 2905 96.9 57000 11765 1.129 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 95.3 42.2 2.73 2903 100.0 57000 10800 1.138 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N165 *C 103.1 46.6 3.02 2903 98.5 57000 11613 1.139 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380 85.7 40.1 2.60 2902 99.9 57000 11294 1.145 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S070 92.5 41.8 2.71 2901 99.2 57000 11548 1.147 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP7 NT *C ~approximation 87.7 40.5 2.62 2900 99.4 57000 11229 1.116 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4350 *T 95.1 42.5 2.76 2900 98.7 57000 11488 1.130 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4350 93.3 42.4 2.75 2900 98.8 57000 11470 1.130 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4320 86.3 38.8 2.52 2896 100.0 57000 10767 1.125 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 516 82.7 40.3 2.61 2895 99.9 57000 11153 1.135 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206H 81.8 37.4 2.42 2894 100.0 57000 10880 1.136 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4895 81.4 37.2 2.41 2894 100.0 57000 10816 1.137 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4955 Enduron *C*T 99.9 44.4 2.88 2894 96.3 57000 11752 1.128 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Wild Boar 80.2 39.2 2.54 2893 100.0 57000 10877 1.135 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP3 85.9 39.7 2.57 2892 100.0 57000 10873 1.157 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old 85.9 39.7 2.57 2892 100.0 57000 10873 1.157 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 217 *C 112.0 50.4 3.27 2888 97.5 47345 13495 1.234
Rottweil R903 87.9 39.8 2.58 2888 100.0 57000 10802 1.157 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4451 Enduron *C*T 89.3 40.3 2.61 2888 99.0 57000 11277 1.125 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 50 85.7 40.8 2.64 2888 99.4 57000 11238 1.138 ! Near Maximum !