45-70

fordtruckin · #1 10-20-2010, 09:56 AM

What do you all think about the 45-70? I've never shot one so I don't know how hard is the kick compared to say a 30.06? I've got a possibility of a job in Grizzly country and would be out n about as often as possible. Thus the reason for a 45-70 vs say a .35 rem ... thanks

Scotty P. · #2 10-20-2010, 10:13 AM

I don't own one myself, yet, but I have fired my buddies Marlin 45.70 in 300gr. serveral times and I actually took a deer with it earlier this season. It was an absolute blast!, no pun intended. I do own a 30.06 and the 45.70 does kick a little more but personally I don't find it too bad at all, especially when I consider that the 45.70 didn't have a shoulder pad and my 30.06 does. Like I said, I haven't got one yet but a Marlin 45.70 with a red dot is going on the wish list and I think it would be perfect for your needs.

Tracker34 · #3 10-20-2010, 10:46 AM

I fired a single shot, Browning I think, in 45-70 using 535 gr. cast bullets. Had a good punch to it.

timsesink · #4 10-20-2010, 01:29 PM

45-70 is an awesome round for a bush bear gun, as said something like a read dot or low mag scope mounted on a marlin would do you well. However something to consider is that a 12ga saboted slug would do just as well for the ranges you would be talking (under 50 yards) and offer more veratily in the swap a barrel system.

sparkster · #5 10-20-2010, 01:34 PM

I have shot a buddies marlin 45.70 and it is now on my wish list. I love the short barrel marlin, what a sexy gun! I loved it. It has a nice punch but nothing to extreme and the lever action is sweet. We were shooting a kill zone size target 60-70 yards away with the iron sights, standing, I was pretty impressed.

BlueNorther · #6 10-20-2010, 02:52 PM

I have a Marlin 1895 Guide Gun in 45/70. The few factory rounds, Rem. 405gr, I shot were pretty mild in recoil compared to what I can load for it. After 20 rounds off the bench I have to put it down but find it more comfortable to shoot off hand.

foothillsman · #7 10-20-2010, 06:24 PM

If you handload, you can literally duplicate 450 marlin loads. 2000 fps with 400/405 grn bullets. If you use the Speer 400 gr bullet, you don't want your load too hot. The bullet will open up too quickly and penetration will around be 10 - 12 inches. If the bullet is kept to a moderate velocity, then the bullet will not expand as much and penetration you will more likely see is from facehole to acehole. Some guys just use hard cast bullets with large meplates and the critters just keep going down. Can't go wrong with the 4570

If your biggest concern is dangerous game, use the iron sights provided, you don't need dead batteries in your aimpoint or having to find the bear in the scope as it is coming in faster than you thought. You'll be having a hard enough time squeezing your cheeks to avoid a brownout as you are trying aim at the bear.

CanuckWR · #8 10-20-2010, 06:54 PM

I love my 45/70. The loads that are safe for the older style blackpowder rifles are pretty tame and have very little kick. The modern 1895 marlin can handle a cannon of a load. Ask CR5, his hurt my shoulder. I suggest a pachmyr butt pad right after you open the box. I have a regular 1895 and it is very light and portable! It will outperform a shotgun slug. There is a VERY good reason it has been around for 140yrs, it gets the job done.

vcmm · #9 10-20-2010, 07:09 PM

I have 2-45/70 rifles 1895 guide gun & newer SBL both are great guns. You should check the Leverlution line for ammo thier 325gn ftx shoots alot faster and gives you more reach if needed. Also Garret ammo in the US has some wicked bullets{540 gn hammerhead hardcast for elephants. If you can afford it the SBL is a better balanced and has ghost ring sights and oversize leverloop for use with gloves. Good luck with your choice. By the way my 130 lb wife shoots the 45's and so do my 12 & 15 year old sons. These are grizzly killing machines.Bust thier shoulders first then finnish them off.

fordtruckin · #10 10-20-2010, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foothillsman

You'll be having a hard enough time squeezing your cheeks to avoid a brownout as you are trying aim at the bear.

Definately one of the funniest things I've read on this forum! The reloading and penetration info is very helpful. Thanks!

7mmremmag · #11 10-20-2010, 08:06 PM

I have the marlin XLR chambered in 45/70. I really like the rifle, mine shoots Hornady Leverevolution 325grain bullets very well. Mine came with a Decellerator recoil pad and I dont find the recoil any worse than my 7mm rem mag.

mudbug · #12 10-20-2010, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordtruckin

Definately one of the funniest things I've read on this forum! The reloading and penetration info is very helpful. Thanks!

X2

Sgt.Wales · #13 10-21-2010, 03:29 AM

I have doen alot of shooting in my life and for bears I just go with a 12g shotgun and shoot buckshot it piles them up every time and if you want something better use a 10g shotgun I think its a bit over kill though

I was watching fish cops up and Fort Mac and the bears where in the bump so they where shooting them with bird shot and they killed fast enough at 50-75yds on a full choke

steve · #14 10-21-2010, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sgt.Wales

I have doen alot of shooting in my life and for bears I just go with a 12g shotgun and shoot buckshot it piles them up every time and if you want something better use a 10g shotgun I think its a bit over kill though

I was watching fish cops up and Fort Mac and the bears where in the bump so they where shooting them with bird shot and they killed fast enough at 50-75yds on a full choke

Hard enough to kill a goose at 75 yards with birdshot

Hang a bear hide up at 75 yards and blast away with some 3'' #2 I guarentee they wont penetrate to kill.

I would never trust my life on any defender style gun with buckshot.

BrownBear416 · #15 10-21-2010, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve

Hard enough to kill a goose at 75 yards with birdshot

Hang a bear hide up at 75 yards and blast away with some 3'' #2 I guarentee they wont penetrate to kill.

I would never trust my life on any defender style gun with buckshot.

x2 A shotgun is highly over rated as a "stopper" on dangerous game.

catnthehat · #16 10-21-2010, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sgt.Wales

I have doen alot of shooting in my life and for bears I just go with a 12g shotgun and shoot buckshot it piles them up every time and if you want something better use a 10g shotgun I think its a bit over kill though

I was watching fish cops up and Fort Mac and the bears where in the bump so they where shooting them with bird shot and they killed fast enough at 50-75yds on a full choke

I know for a fact that they were not shooting bird shot.
For the record, a slug from a 12 gauge is good defense at CLOSE range, but not past 30 feet IMO.
I packed one for years and have used a SXS several times going after wounded bears....
Cat

PoppaW · #17 10-21-2010, 09:42 AM

If you want to use it for grizz, then I would choose a hard bullet. Some say the speer is fast opening. I haven't shot them, but I did use the 405 Rem and it was explosive with useless penetration when pushed fast. I have seen better results from 300 partitions and 300 tsx's. If you want heavy then go with hornady 500's at 1500fps. No such thing as overkill when a bear wants to eat you.

220swifty · #18 10-22-2010, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sgt.Wales

I have doen alot of shooting in my life and for bears I just go with a 12g shotgun and shoot buckshot it piles them up every time and if you want something better use a 10g shotgun I think its a bit over kill though

I was watching fish cops up and Fort Mac and the bears where in the bump so they where shooting them with bird shot and they killed fast enough at 50-75yds on a full choke

Trust him, he's a gunsmith.

gitrdun · #19 10-22-2010, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 220swifty

Trust him, he's a gunsmith.

Yeah, I know....he keeps pointing that out, whatever. Anyhow, hey I went to a .444 Marlin simply because everyone else had a 45-70 (nothing against it). But the . 444 Marlin is a stopper too, dropped my bull elk at 90 yds like he got hit by a freight train.

fordtruckin · #20 10-22-2010, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gitrdun

Yeah, I know....he keeps pointing that out, whatever. Anyhow, hey I went to a .444 Marlin simply because everyone else had a 45-70 (nothing against it). But the . 444 Marlin is a stopper too, dropped my bull elk at 90 yds like he got hit by a freight train.

Yah I got nothin against the .444 or .450 marlin other than the price and availabilty of ammo. I'm starting to reload so it doesn't hurt quite as much. I prefer the 45/70 just because I'm a I like old military rounds. Sure there is probably bigger an better rounds out there but Hell with how much $$ the military spends on testing and development. (even if its over 100 years old).. if they choose it, it has to have some advantages....

gitrdun · #21 10-22-2010, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordtruckin

Yah I got nothin against the .444 or .450 marlin other than the price and availabilty of ammo. I'm starting to reload so it doesn't hurt quite as much. I prefer the 45/70 just because I'm a I like old military rounds. Sure there is probably bigger an better rounds out there but Hell with how much $$ the military spends on testing and development. (even if its over 100 years old).. if they choose it, it has to have some advantages....

Ohhh, don't get me wrong, the 45-70 is absolutely an awesome round, and yes old school. The .450 Marlin....well I do have to wonder about it's longevity. But the .444 Marlin dates back to 1964, nothing like the lineage of the 45-70, I know for sure. If you reload, at least give the .444 a slight consideration. There's nothing that the 45-70 can do that the .444 can't.
Just a thaught, good luck in your choice bud.

prarie_boy1 · #22 10-22-2010, 09:43 PM

Love my Marlin GG. Put a peep site on it and do a fair amount of shooting with it. I primarily use cast bullets and the beauty of the marlin is it can be loaded with light plinker loads that you can shoot all day or filling rattling bear stopping rounds. When I was flying up north I used to pack my guide gun and had it full of 405 GR hard cast bullets traveling at a leisurely 1600fps. Never got close enough to a bear to test it out but from what friends tell me it is lights out.

dogslayer403 · #23 10-23-2010, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timsesink

45-70 is an awesome round for a bush bear gun, as said something like a read dot or low mag scope mounted on a marlin would do you well. However something to consider is that a 12ga saboted slug would do just as well for the ranges you would be talking (under 50 yards) and offer more veratily in the swap a barrel system.

agreed but the main difference is a slug will deflect on heavy bone hits where the 45/70 especially with a hard cast will keep going straight on in. They are a deep penatrating lead chucker and I have a lot of fun with mine in a marlin such a great gun to shoot.

deanmc · #24 10-23-2010, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sgt.Wales

I have doen alot of shooting in my life and for bears I just go with a 12g shotgun and shoot buckshot it piles them up every time and if you want something better use a 10g shotgun I think its a bit over kill though

I was watching fish cops up and Fort Mac and the bears where in the bump so they where shooting them with bird shot and they killed fast enough at 50-75yds on a full choke

No you were not.No need to explain. You are being ridiculous.

Dean2 · #25 10-23-2010, 08:42 AM

45-70, especially if you reload is a great cartridge. Has killed everything on the planet at one time or another. Everyone should have one.

The one advantage the 444 has is it will cycle and shoot 410 shells perfectly so you can use it for grouse while big game hunting. I do the same with the 45-70 by loading 8 shot into the 45-70 case. You can also load cast with Trail Boss and head shoot the grouse, about as loud as a 22 and great practice.

fordtruckin · #26 10-23-2010, 11:22 AM

I'm startin to kick myself because a few weeks ago I had the option to pick one up in like new condition for 450$. Had the big loop, and tritium sights. I know both those options are $$200+ to put it on yourself. Only back then I wasn;t considering movin into big bear country, and would have been happy with a 30-30 or a .35. Oh well guess I'll see what happens!

Arn?Narn. · #27 10-23-2010, 11:44 AM

After countless 45/70's, 450's and .444's I can honestly say that I love the guns within 150 yrds....

as for shotguns...

I was doing some shooting about a month ago and some other guys showed up. They had two short 870 expresses. My buddy had a mossberg or maveric something or ther short shotty too.

we were chatting about hunting and they mentioned bears and slugs and shotguns.

It ended with us putting up a rather large target about 16 x 16 inches...@50 yrds.

out of nine shots, the target was hit once with a slug. my buddy missed too.

I have done it myself many times when I was younger and will not even try it now as I know what happens when you only have a front bead and are not well practiced shooting slugs from an 18 inch barrel with just a bead...

@ 25 yrds the first shot by one of the guys missed and he hit it on the corner with his second shot.

They were genuinely confused as to why they were missing, but decided that it is still a great bear defense gun...

My buddy was as surprised as they were...

CR5 · #28 10-23-2010, 04:29 PM

I have a Marlin 1895 45-70 and I love it. It is an excellent bush gun.
Factory Remington 400gr loads are very light in recoil, Federal 300gr are a little more, the Hornady LeverEvolution 325gr are pretty snappy (probably comparable to a 30-06 for recoil, maybe a little more), my handloads are 405gr around 1800fps and they make my shoulder pretty sore after a few shots.
The 45-70 is very versatile and can be loaded from very mild to more than I can handle for recoil and will be effective all the way through the range.
I am still in load development trying to find a load that gives good groups and is tolerable for recoil.
I would feel very comfortable carrying it in bear country with the Hornady rounds or some nice handloads.
Buy an aftermarket recoil pad if you are going to handload for it and it tames the beast quite nicely.
I'm not very impressed with the factory sights but there are a few options in the aftermarket for it, skip the scope other than for at the range during load development.

Good luck

gitrdun · #29 10-23-2010, 04:40 PM

Hi CR5, I do believe that you can get a real nice Tru-Glo sight with the fiberoptic rods for your 45-70. I've installed the Williams version on a Win 94. Very nice open sight. Lyman also makes a neat flip up tang peep sight

jungleboy · #30 10-23-2010, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean2

45-70, especially if you reload is a great cartridge. Has killed everything on the planet at one time or another. Everyone should have one.

The one advantage the 444 has is it will cycle and shoot 410 shells perfectly so you can use it for grouse while big game hunting. I do the same with the 45-70 by loading 8 shot into the 45-70 case. You can also load cast with Trail Boss and head shoot the grouse, about as loud as a 22 and great practice.

I would be very interested to have the specifics on that Trail boss load ,as well as the shot load .if you don't mind , Thanks.