Sad state of affairs

[Mumbles]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

It may not be feasible for a slot limit to run all season but a short season say 6 weeks combined with a 1 or 2 fish slot limit is most likely feasible. Main thing you would need to spread pressure

Alberta is not the only place that population vs fish available is an issue. There is options beyond what is presently used. Many jurisdictions realize that if you provide some form of C&K you generate more funding for the recourse and keep strong interest for future fishing

Nothing wrong with having C&R waters or trophy lakes but without respectable efforts in a C&K fishery you are loosing funding and support.

I rarely keep fish but I see the value in C&K fisheries and how they are beneficial

This would never work for 2 reasons...#1: it gives the greedy pig Albertans an excuse to play dumb and say they thought “it was the harvest”, which more or less leads to and is part of reason #2: Albertans are to god damn stupid to figure out our regs at the best of times,(which are incredibly easy to read and understand) put something complicated like a confusing harvest season in the middle of fishing season and all hell will break lose, no one will know which ways up and this will also lead back to reason #1.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Mumbles

This would never work for 2 reasons...#1: it gives the greedy pig Albertans an excuse to play dumb and say they thought “it was the harvest”, which more or less leads to and is part of reason #2: Albertans are to god damn stupid to figure out our regs at the best of times,(which are incredibly easy to read and understand) put something complicated like a confusing harvest season in the middle of fishing season and all hell will break lose, no one will know which ways up and this will also lead back to reason #1.

Sounds like you should move

Under that theory the present system or any system for that matter has no effect either. Slobs are not unique to Alberta

The fact of the matter is there is options and effective ones. Saying there is not is being closed minded

[Mumbles]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Sounds like you should move

Under that theory the present system or any system for that matter has no effect either. Slobs are not unique to Alberta

The fact of the matter is there is options and effective ones. Saying there is not is being closed minded

I don’t need to move I Catch and release, like is really much option to do otherwise anyways. Nope slobs are not unique to AB never said they were but we are a meat oriented population, with less of a resource than other areas and a growing population, but we are exceptionally glutinous, greedy. Destroying walleye populations, then Pike, Burbot limits are down because people couldn’t keep pike and walleye...next is whites. Notice how they are catching on in popularity it’s beacuse of the very liberal limit. Don’t worry soon we won’t be able to keep them either.
I never said there are no options,there are plenty of ideas that could work. Sorry but your is one of the worst that I have heard thrown out there so far. So far I believe the tag system is the best way we will sustain a walleye fishery for generations to enjoy. Sure we need some more tags at more lakes.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Mumbles

I don’t need to move I Catch and release, like is really much option to do otherwise anyways. Nope slobs are not unique to AB never said they were but we are a meat oriented population, with less of a resource than other areas and a growing population, but we are exceptionally glutinous, greedy. Destroying walleye populations, then Pike, Burbot limits are down because people couldn’t keep pike and walleye...next is whites. Notice how they are catching on in popularity it’s beacuse of the very liberal limit. Don’t worry soon we won’t be able to keep them either.
I never said there are no options,there are plenty of ideas that could work. Sorry but your is one of the worst that I have heard thrown out there so far. So far I believe the tag system is the best way we will sustain a walleye fishery for generations to enjoy. Sure we need some more tags at more lakes.

I am 99% C&R as well between my family of 4 we may keep 10 fish a year and often are ones that were iffy if they would survive. It’s I see the big picture beyond personal needs

“My” idea was just one example of the many proven effective management methods that has been applied outside of Alberta. You may think it’s the worst idea but this style of management has achieved results in many locations for multiple species across the world. It’s actually a tool that has been successfully used to rebound fish populations that were depleted from over fishing

It may not be the answer for Alberta or something you agree with but it’s proven effective form of management.

You are 100% correct that people need to manage them selves and don’t using fishing to fill the freezer. If you think Alberta’s bad you need to get out and experience more places outside of the province. Don’t worry I have seen towns with the mentality fishing doesn’t have catch limits. My eyes are far from closed when it comes to human greed. Enforcement and education is the only answer here

We both agree there is options and that is the main point I am making. I don’t claim to have the answer because it takes a lot more than going fishing and talking on a forum to create a sound management plan.

My issue is the constant posts “Alberta can’t handle anything but C&R” and that is false.

Something to remember if fishing is not generating decent revenue it’s of little value to govt. Big picture wise mixed opportunity promotes fishing more than C&R alone in turn generating more revenue. When there is more money generated fishermen have more power lobbying government for projects to improve fisheries. This is something all fishermen need to understand

I am of the mindset you want to see things improve it needs to generate $ and you need numbers of people to push for change

[Sledin]

Originally Posted by 35 whelen

Just came from MANITOBA fishing trip will be spending my fishing money there .

I’m in Manitoba, my favourite lake is Lake of the Woods in Ontario.

Grass is always greener on the other side



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Savage Bacon]

Like someone else stated before, if I'm spending a lot of money to drive for 10-15 hours out of town one way to rent a boat or pay fuel to tow mine and pay for lodging and miss my wages from work while I'm gone, I'm probably going to keep all the fish I can.

I'm probably contradicting myself but now if I fly to a remote lake or river that's catch and release only, I'm fine with that. That's more for the experience of a lifetime I guess you could say.

Now I don't mean going to sk or mb every weekend to net in as many fish as I possibly can. But if I go once every 2 or 3 years, I'm probably going to keep what I can.

I hope I'm not contributing to a problem

[huntsfurfish]

We all have to get our moneys worth.

[Red Bullets]

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

We all have to get our moneys worth.

Licence by the pound.

A base of 20 bucks to buy the fishing licence and 3 to 5 bucks a pound for the fish you want to keep, to a maximum of 50 lbs.(live weight) per licence year. Buy poundage allotments for each lake. Poundage draws for some lakes.

A straight 30 buck licence for catch and release anglers, but have a 5 dollar charge for each outing to accommodate hooking mortality. Prepay for so many outings per year or buy as you go.

Senior and kids under 16 licences should not be free in Alberta either. It is not reasonably sustainable and is a loss of revenue to contribute to improving and maintaining the fisheries.

[CMichaud]

Alberta is home to 1,100 fish-bearing bodies of water...the province's potential for fish is small fry compared to Saskatchewan, which has 94,000 fish-bearing water bodies

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...rticle4133924/

Alberta pop: 4.3 Million (2018)

Saskatchewan pop: 1.16 Million (2018)

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by Red Bullets

Licence by the pound.

A base of 20 bucks to buy the fishing licence and 3 to 5 bucks a pound for the fish you want to keep, to a maximum of 50 lbs.(live weight) per licence year. Buy poundage allotments for each lake. Poundage draws for some lakes.

A straight 30 buck licence for catch and release anglers, but have a 5 dollar charge for each outing to accommodate hooking mortality. Prepay for so many outings per year or buy as you go.

Senior and kids under 16 licences should not be free in Alberta either. It is not reasonably sustainable and is a loss of revenue to contribute to improving and maintaining the fisheries.

I have been in favour of that for a long time(bolded). Turn 65 this year and it still has not happened.

[Mr Flyguy]

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

I have been in favour of that for a long time(bolded). Turn 65 this year and it still has not happened.

Bah, humbug, we deserve our free licenses.

[SNAPFisher]

Originally Posted by Mumbles

I don’t need to move I Catch and release, like is really much option to do otherwise anyways. Nope slobs are not unique to AB never said they were but we are a meat oriented population, with less of a resource than other areas and a growing population, but we are exceptionally glutinous, greedy. Destroying walleye populations, then Pike, Burbot limits are down because people couldn’t keep pike and walleye...next is whites. Notice how they are catching on in popularity it’s beacuse of the very liberal limit. Don’t worry soon we won’t be able to keep them either.
I never said there are no options,there are plenty of ideas that could work. Sorry but your is one of the worst that I have heard thrown out there so far. So far I believe the tag system is the best way we will sustain a walleye fishery for generations to enjoy. Sure we need some more tags at more lakes.

Seems so doesn't it. Of course others want to blame the government for their woes. Easy target.

We get to see this first hand. Let's see what happens to the whites. Pigeon is a great example. I'm not innocent for sure. I get my 10 limit over several days but then I move on. To other species other lakes. Will that make a difference...probably not unless others did the same. There are groups of white anglers and they are there all the time. Pretty much fish it exclusively due to the size and liberal limits on whites. How many are in their collective freezers.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

We aren’t given the chance to be slobs here in Alberta, unless you think keeping one walleye in a fishing trip is being a slob. You live at the lake so it’s easy to say people are slobs, but for those who spend $300 on a day out fishing, and they do it maybe 6 times a year, wanting to keep 2 or three fish every trip isn’t being a slob.


I agree, alberta has the most pathetic fish management team in the country, possibly in all North America.

So far in the past 2 years my family’s total walleye retention count is 9 from Alberta, 8 from Saskatchewan, I’d like to see that number triple or quadruple. At quadruple that would be about 17 walleye per person, say round it up to 20, that works out to less than 1 meal a month, far from what would be considered slobs.

I refuse to take part in the scam our fish management team has come up with selling tags..... what a pathetic solution. What these idiots are doing is destroying the lakes that still allow retention by putting extreme pressure on them. It won’t be long before they succeed in destroying all our lakes so they can sell tags on all walleye lakes, what a great way to build bonus funds for a job well done in creating revenue.

Rumor has it that the plan is to have all retention limited to indigenous harvest which will then in turn be sold to Canadians. They’ll still offer limited tags to keep the revenue flowing though, they need the carrot on the string to keep the cash horse running. Somehow there isn’t enough walleye in our lakes for anglers to retain their catch but there’s enough that aboriginal harvesters can net the lakes and sell us some, as much as we want to buy, no limit$.

I see it "slobs" just taking.....really like it when a call goes I. And the fish cops hang out around the launches....problem is people text real quick and the fish cops gotta keep moving from one area to another....I do agree our guberment has it wrong but like I mentioned we gotta govern ourselves, you and your family having a few legally for a shore lunch does not Impact the numbers it's the ones that take a lot....boat to dock....transfer of fish to a vehicle that just shows up and out they go again...those are the slobs I am talking about....

[cube]

Originally Posted by Elk Chaser

This province is in dire need of a walleye hatchery program. I think that the tag system is a tax. What do we get from these taxes? Not much. There seems to be the mind set that fishing doesn't bring much benefit to our province, someone is wrong. I do know that people will go other provinces to fish. i am lucky, Sask. is just next door and I now go there for my walleye fishing, that means that I am spending my fishing dollars somewhere else.

Hey Alberta get your s*** together and start a better walleye stocking program.

I know a lot of people think that stocking walleye would be easy but it is really not. Stocking trout into land locked lakes is very easy in comparison.

Just a couple of factors

Walleye do not do well in hatcheries and other methods have to be used which are much more labor intensive/expensive.

Because I imagine your not suggesting stocking walleye into land locked pot hole lakes, like the trout we now stock out, as walleye would not survive in these high temperature shallow water cess pools, one would have to carefully manage the genetics of the fish involved. If not one could end up with bad cases of Outbreeding Depression. This has already been suggested as one of the possible causes as to the poor out come on Lac La Biche.

Another problem that comes from stocking is disease spread. This is an area that Alberta is pretty much famous for. There probably is nothing better at spreading disease than moving large numbers of animals around. Whirling disease may turn out to be just the latest case of this as the jury is still out as to where it originated in Alberta.

So Stocking programs can be successful but one needs to be very careful when stocking into natural water bodies.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

I see it "slobs" just taking.....really like it when a call goes I. And the fish cops hang out around the launches....problem is people text real quick and the fish cops gotta keep moving from one area to another....I do agree our guberment has it wrong but like I mentioned we gotta govern ourselves, you and your family having a few legally for a shore lunch does not Impact the numbers it's the ones that take a lot....boat to dock....transfer of fish to a vehicle that just shows up and out they go again...those are the slobs I am talking about....

I see that with the locals at cold lake who have their shacks on the ice. Catch a fish, shuttle home, 20min later they’re back in the shack.

It’s like any other facet of society, no matter what the law is, there are criminals who break laws.

I was talking with my neighbor just today, his son is high up the ranks of Alberta Fish and Wildlife. He said even his son figures the walleye numbers in most lakes across Alberta are too high and they are eating all the bait fish and in turn killing off the pike populations. Even high ranking officers in the fish and wildlife office see it’s a problem, yet some here don’t get it or refuse to beleive it.

[SNAPFisher]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I was talking with my neighbor just today, his son is high up the ranks of Alberta Fish and Wildlife.

What's his name?

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Even high ranking officers in the fish and wildlife office see it’s a problem, yet some here don’t get it or refuse to beleive it.

If you mean by "some here" as in this forum, meaning other forum members, wouldn't it make more sense for you to talk someone at F&W "high up the ranks"?

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by SNAPFisher

What's his name?



If you mean by "some here" as in this forum, meaning other forum members, wouldn't it make more sense for you to talk someone at F&W "high up the ranks"?

You figure I’m lying? PM sent. Can’t talk with anyone higher in his detatchrment, he’s the boss. Give him a shout and ask him, then get back to me.

[smitty9]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

You are 100% correct that people need to manage them selves and don’t using fishing to fill the freezer.

Amen.

And that is incredibly difficult. Involves a paradigm, mindset, cultural shift.

Education and enforcement is needed indeed. And I can pretty guarantee you the current gov't isn't too interested in either. So, we'll be stuck with the AEP and the bios "doing their best", and most anglers too apathetic to care to do anything beyond complaining on a forum.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by CMichaud

Alberta is home to 1,100 fish-bearing bodies of water...the province's potential for fish is small fry compared to Saskatchewan, which has 94,000 fish-bearing water bodies

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...rticle4133924/

Alberta pop: 4.3 Million (2018)

Saskatchewan pop: 1.16 Million (2018)

Any guess as to the number of lakes each province has that are drivable too? Float planes aside, I’d bet sask may still be more but not as skewed as these numbers present.
I think these numbers presented are moot.
Many lakes in sask get hit hard as well.
Only difference is these lakes seem to weather the onslaught. Superior management?

[Jamie Black R/T]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Any guess as to the number of lakes each province has that are drivable too? Float planes aside, I’d bet sask may still be more but not as skewed as these numbers present.

I think these numbers presented are moot.

Many lakes in sask get hit hard as well.

Only difference is these lakes seem to weather the onslaught. Superior management?

Agreed.

They like to use the fishermen per lake analogy when argueing slot sizes wont work here...but the vast majority of Saskatchewans fishable lakes are not accessible to anyone...those numbers dont work. Like saying 95% of school shootings involve an AR15.....doesnt mention the 99.9% of AR15s that dont shoot up schools.

Im not confident our fisheries money spent is used wisely....i dont think it ever has been. I think that entire department needs an overhaul...maybe with outside help from a similar jurisdiction that has similar pressure on there lakes and still manages sustainable stocks. Using....you guessed it....slot sizes and split seasons.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[huntsfurfish]

I think you will find much of Albertas water in the North as well. And if you didnt count the Southern Reservoirs it would be much worse.

Most water South of Red Deer are Reservoirs excluding rivers and a few lakes, with some lakes in the mountain areas of that same area.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

I think you will find much of Albertas water in the North as well. And if you didnt count the Southern Reservoirs it would be much worse.

Most water South of Red Deer are Reservoirs excluding rivers and a few lakes, with some lakes in the mountain areas of that same area.

Not even close.

Have a gander on google maps

Much like Alberta, your argument holds no water

[smitty9]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Not even close.

Have a gander on google maps

This is unclear; are you agreeing with him and saying "yes, most of the water is in the northern part of the province",

Or,

Are you saying his assertion is "not even close" and you disagree; i.e. alot of the water is in the center and southern alberta (or its relatively evenly distributed).

Because I agree with the former; most of the water is in the north; its nice to say that the province has 1,100 lakes - of which barely 800 have sportfish - but that number is a pittance. Then add your gander on google maps its' apparent that though most of the province's population is in the south, most of the water is in the north.

It's not even close.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by smitty9

This is unclear; are you agreeing with him and saying "yes, most of the water is in the northern part of the province",

Or,

Are you saying his assertion is "not even close" and you disagree; i.e. alot of the water is in the center and southern alberta (or its relatively evenly distributed).

Because I agree with the former; most of the water is in the north; its nice to say that the province has 1,100 lakes - of which barely 800 have sportfish - but that number is a pittance. Then add your gander on google maps its' apparent that though most of the province's population is in the south, most of the water is in the north.

It's not even close.

The difference is Alberta has a way higher % of accessable lakes compared to Saskatchewan. Being north just makes it a farther drive in Alberta, being north in Saskatchewan means you hop on a plane to get there.

So like Moose and Jamie said, the numbers are extremely skewed.

[smitty9]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

The difference is Alberta has a way higher % of accessable lakes compared to Saskatchewan. Being north just makes it a farther drive in Alberta, being north in Saskatchewan means you hop on a plane to get there.

So like Moose and Jamie said, the numbers are extremely skewed.

Due respect, then give me numbers. Because I still disagree. Here are my - very speculative - numbers.

AB--> 800 sportfishing lakes, maybe 40% - and I think that is generous - are accessible by car. That equals 320 lakes.

Sask--> 100,000 lakes according to google search. Maybe 1% accessible, which may or may not be lowballing it. That still amounts to 1000 lakes.

Plus, most people aren't willing to drive more than 2-3 hours for day's fishing. I'd argue that the only true lake-heavy area of Alberta with any density is the Lac la Biche area. I don't see alot of Calgarians in that area personally.

No, I'm with the others, I do see this differently. Alberta has alot of fishing pressure relative to pop vs fishable, driveable lakes. Most fishermen are casual.

Yes, the skew is a factor or a variable that ought to be taken into account, but it doesn't swing the pendulum away from AB really having a high ratio of anglers per lake.

Anyways, in many respects, this is moot. AEP needs a re-balancing approach to managing lakes, including enlisting the help of anglers, and adopting an approach of serving them as well, but, however, the angling community in Alberta needs to wake up to several realities, including the fact that some lakes with very high pressure won't be able to sustain any harvest long term unless it is strictly controlled through a tag or stamp system.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by smitty9

Due respect, then give me numbers. Because I still disagree. Here are my - very speculative - numbers.

AB--> 800 sportfishing lakes, maybe 40% - and I think that is generous - are accessible by car. That equals 320 lakes.

Sask--> 100,000 lakes according to google search. Maybe 1% accessible, which may or may not be lowballing it. That still amounts to 1000 lakes.

Plus, most people aren't willing to drive more than 2-3 hours for day's fishing. I'd argue that the only true lake-heavy area of Alberta with any density is the Lac la Biche area. I don't see alot of Calgarians in that area personally.

No, I'm with the others, I do see this differently. Alberta has alot of fishing pressure relative to pop vs fishable, driveable lakes. Most fishermen are casual.

Yes, the skew is a factor or a variable that ought to be taken into account, but it doesn't swing the pendulum away from AB really having a high ratio of anglers per lake.

Anyways, in many respects, this is moot. AEP needs a re-balancing approach to managing lakes, including enlisting the help of anglers, and adopting an approach of serving them as well, but, however, the angling community in Alberta needs to wake up to several realities, including the fact that some lakes with very high pressure won't be able to sustain any harvest long term unless it is strictly controlled through a tag or stamp system.

Google maps.

[smitty9]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Google maps.

You first.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by smitty9

You first.

Ok, here is a couple pics to show you an example.


Alberta’s north:



Central Alberta:



Saskatchewan’s north



Central Saskatchewan:





What you’ll see is most of Alberta’s lakes are in the central area, while most of Saskatchewan’s are north. If you’ve ever driven northern Saskatchewan you know that even as far north as LaRonge thinks start getting pretty remote.

[SNAPFisher]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

You figure I’m lying? PM sent. Can’t talk with anyone higher in his detatchrment, he’s the boss. Give him a shout and ask him, then get back to me.

Put it this way, I find it strange that you have a need to convince members on here who are not in a position to make changes. .

I see the area you are referring to so this might make some sense. That doesn't mean that it applies to other areas. I hope you understand that.

That said, I'm just a guy that likes to fish. I do not manage our fisheries. I do not claim to be an expert. I will follow-up because I am interested and seeing if there is any plans to do something different, starting in the area that this person is covering.

Thanks for the PM.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by SNAPFisher

Put it this way, I find it strange that you have a need to convince members on here who are not in a position to make changes. .

I see the area you are referring to so this might make some sense. That doesn't mean that it applies to other areas. I hope you understand that.

That said, I'm just a guy that likes to fish. I do not manage our fisheries. I do not claim to be an expert. I will follow-up because I am interested and seeing if there is any plans to do something different, starting in the area that this person is covering.

Thanks for the PM.

Fish and Wildlife officers don’t make the rules, they just enforce them. They MIGHT have a little bit more sway than you or I, but it’s like asking a cop to change the speed limit. He’s in no more of a position to make changes than you or I. Im not trying to make change on this forum, I’m just bringing up some info into the topic.

It’s easy to see the difference from the walleye chasers in the south to the recreational fishermen in the central parts of the province. You figure if they opened up the lakes to retention in the central areas it would affect the walleye guys in the south? I doubt it, but that would take an effort from our fish management team, effort I doubt they can afford. It’s way easier and much more profitable to close retention and offer tags.


Quick question,

Does anyone know the reason Lac La Biche is closed for retention?