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  #31  
Old 04-25-2013, 08:30 PM
densa44 densa44 is offline
 
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Try your best to match the 2. let me know how pulling out about 30' of leader and silk line while sitting stream side works for you. All the line, leader too has to be clean and have flotation applied, keep it out of the pine needles, getting tangled around your legs and don't step on it.

Oh it frays at the end if you false cast without a leader.

You need a nail knot to tie on your leader.

Roll casts are very tough, and depending how long your rod is so is picking up at the end of a float.

You'll be an expert at why scientific angler's line was so popular.

Have fun.
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  #32  
Old 04-25-2013, 09:07 PM
rycoma rycoma is offline
 
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Gave the old rod a try tonight with both tips. All I have is 4wt line so gave it a go. I like the longer tip the 4wt line loads it but very slowly the short tip is like a tree branch. I really like the action real slow. I think I could get used to that
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  #33  
Old 04-25-2013, 09:15 PM
MtnGiant MtnGiant is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by densa44 View Post
Try your best to match the 2. let me know how pulling out about 30' of leader and silk line while sitting stream side works for you. All the line, leader too has to be clean and have flotation applied, keep it out of the pine needles, getting tangled around your legs and don't step on it.

Oh it frays at the end if you false cast without a leader.

You need a nail knot to tie on your leader.

Roll casts are very tough, and depending how long your rod is so is picking up at the end of a float.

You'll be an expert at why scientific angler's line was so popular.

Have fun.
Thanks...I will have fun.

Your negative comments just means you have little experience and appreciation for quality fly fishing.

And yes...I continually false cast without a leader.

And...what's so difficult about a nail knot?

Hope you have fun with your dime store fishing mentality.
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  #34  
Old 04-26-2013, 07:21 AM
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Lornce Lornce is offline
 
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Oh it frays at the end if you false cast without a leader.
Never had a silk line fray, I loop my silk just like any other fly line. Just curious why you would cast any fly line without a leader? Perhaps I'm missing something.

You need a nail knot to tie on your leader.
See above, loop to loop makes it easy and fast or changing leaders.

Roll casts are very tough, and depending how long your rod is so is picking up at the end of a float.
Actually with standard fly line pick up is identical to any fly rod, with silk its actually easier as silk sits on the film instead of floating in it.

You'll be an expert at why scientific angler's line was so popular.
Plastic fly lines are great, use them a lot. but I also enjoy other methods of fly fishing. By the way there where other early fly line manufacturers, such as Cortland, a much better line that SA at that time and some say still.

Have fun guys and keep safe on the water.
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but never, with a fly rod in my hand have I been in a place that was less than beautiful.

My blog - casting on the waters

fishing regulations and facts on fish handling
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Last edited by Lornce; 04-26-2013 at 07:26 AM.
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  #35  
Old 04-26-2013, 08:06 AM
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Lornce Lornce is offline
 
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Originally Posted by mtngiant View Post
What are the differances in the tapers of cane rods?

There seems to be many differant ones.
As may different tapers in cane rods as there are in any other types. Its a matter of looking for a fly rod no matter what is is that matches you fishing and style.
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Often I have been exhausted on trout streams, uncomfortable, wet, cold, briar scarred, sunburned, mosquito bitten,
but never, with a fly rod in my hand have I been in a place that was less than beautiful.

My blog - casting on the waters

fishing regulations and facts on fish handling
Fishing Regulations
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  #36  
Old 04-26-2013, 09:03 AM
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MK2750 MK2750 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lornce View Post
Plastic fly lines are great, use them a lot. but I also enjoy other methods of fly fishing. By the way there where other early fly line manufacturers, such as Cortland, a much better line that SA at that time and some say still.
I picked up some Cortland 444 at UFA as I couldn't pass up the clear out price. It is all we ever used until I got reading on here how great Rio line was. Ended up fooling with Rio for a few years until I realized it just sucked regardless of their return policy and what all the experts say.

Determined to spend $70 or $80 on a line I went to SA and really like it, but after casting the 444 again I feel like I took a long journey to no where.

I think Cortland would win back the market share if the line wasn't PINK. Those other guys have those masculine, camo looking green lines that don't make a bit of difference when the fish is looking up at a blue or cloudy sky. In fact the PINK probably blends into the overhead back ground better, but no matter how you look at it, it just seems wrong. Do they really think that calling it PEACH makes it any less girly? Why not go with the gender neutral LAVANDER and be done with it?

Anyway I am back to the Cortland. I will wear a Harley T-shirt and camo hat to compensate and keep from getting unwanted attention-not that there is anything wrong with that.
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  #37  
Old 04-26-2013, 10:18 AM
Ronbill Ronbill is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Lornce View Post
As may different tapers in cane rods as there are in any other types. Its a matter of looking for a fly rod no matter what is is that matches you fishing and style.
I would go a step further and say there are many many more different tapers in cane than graphite or glass. It's amazing what these bamboo craftsmen can do by adjusting tapers and planing to fine tolerances. Compound tapers can get quite complex to account for materials and ferrules etc.

Moreover, consider the many current builders that are hollow building bamboo rods not only to lighten the final product, but creating internal tapers to further influence action.

Regardless of taper, most rods still fit into the same action scheme used to compare graphite - Slow, med-slow, medium, med-fast and fast with the added complexity of:

(1) Classic dry fly taper - used to describe a light, tip action rod (built with fine tips) for presenting dry flies delicately. However, fine tips do not transmit power down the rod to the butt, so these rods usually lack the ability to cast great distance. Many of the old Leonard and F.E. Thomas designed tapers fit this category.

(2) Parabolic taper - these are generally the slowest-action rods with soft tip and butt and stiff mid-region that allows the cast to have a double-hinge feel to it (a casting stroke with two power surges). These rods flex well into the butt section below the cork grip and forces the user to slow the cast and time the power stroke appropriately. They are difficult to learn for most coming from fast graphite, but once done correctly, will throw a SIGNIFICANT amount of line with little effort as the rod does the work. These were originally designed by European maker, Ritz and then produced by Pezon et Michel and Sharpes of Aberdeen more recently. In America, they were popularized by Paul Young and his rods are highly regarded and often copied.

(3) Progressive taper - Simply stated, is a rod design that starts with a small diameter at the tip and has a smooth and even increase in the thickness of a rod all the way back through the grip. To complicate things, compound progressive tapers - my personal favorite rod design - are similar, but vary in diameter along the length of the rod to alter the flex characteristics thus accounting for influence of ferrules etc.
Generally though, progressive tapers bend increasingly further down the rod from the tip to butt as the load (line length/weight) increases utilizing the full power and length of the rod. Most graphite rods now produced have a progressive action and action can be changed by the weight of the fly line used on it. Progressive tapers can vary from slow action (most of the rod flexing) to fast (most of the flex occuring near the tip).


I find med-slow to medium progressive tapers are pleasant for shorter distances and make accurate casting rods for dry fly presentation. These are typical of tapers designed by the likes of J. Payne, Powell, G. Granger, Heddon and some Garrison. In 7' or 7'6" 4wt these are great for the upper Oldman tribs like Racehorse and upper Livingstone etc. In 7'9" or 8' 5wt these work well casting wet and dry flies on larger waters like Crowsnest and Castle Rivers.

I really like med-fast progressive tapered rods as they generally do what you ask of them. I don't have to think about my timing when casting these rods. These tapers were designed and popularized by Payne and others like Phillipson (for Wright & McGill Granger), Heddon, and Young (I recommend Young's Perfectionist taper for 7'6" 4wt). I have a Payne 97 (7' 4wt made by Mike Brooks) that I use on the upper Livingstone and Racehorse for dry flies. I also have a 7'6" 4wt quadrate (four strip cane) based on Young's Perfectionist taper that was made by Tim Zietak that is great for casting dries on Castle and Crowsnest Rivers. For the Oldman at the Gap, I use a 8' 5wt med-fast compound progressive taper made by Mike Brooks that I believe he modified from a Payne 200 taper.

And for those who learned using fast or ultra-fast graphite, a fast (compound) progressive action rod is my recomendation to start with. These tapers were popularized by Dickerson and I think Gillum and are often copied by todays builders.

So ok, there is a bit to learn

There are plenty of vintage rods on the market but you really need to know what to look for. I think it's best to buy a new(er) rod that gives you the chance to contact the maker for full desciption of the action. The builder is best suited to identify the taper best for you.
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  #38  
Old 06-09-2013, 11:34 AM
MtnGiant MtnGiant is offline
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Nice info Ronbill

Any insights on "Willow and Cane" bamboo rods?
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  #39  
Old 06-09-2013, 11:13 PM
Ronbill Ronbill is offline
 
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Originally Posted by mtngiant View Post
Nice info Ronbill

Any insights on "Willow and Cane" bamboo rods?
I think the cheaper (about $300-$400 on ebay) Willow and Cane rods (or at least the blanks) are being produced in China and are of lower quality. The problem with the rods/blanks coming out of China is that they do not heat treat the cane properly and the resulting rods tend to be limp (heating gives a resiliency to the cane resulting in quicker rod action).
Also, they tend to wrap guides with nylon vs traditional silk thread, which is not a real big deal just a savings. More importantly, they coat the guide wraps in high build epoxy instead of traditional varnish which is difficult to repair and looks terrible on cane.
My biggest worry is that they are not using the best adhesives to glue the blanks which can lead to rods that take a set (permanent bend) easily when playing fish. Also, from my experience, the cheap rods have many noticeable glue line resulting from poorly planed bamboo strips.
I would suggest looking for rods made in North America. Most will cover any repairs resulting from defects and will give you a good deal to repair any issues resulting from accidents etc. There are plenty of builders in the US that charge in the $450-$800 range. And lightly used rods go for less.
Check out the rods for sale at Jim Bresko's Coldwater Collectibles: http://www.coldwatercollectibles.com/classics.html.
Rods by Steve Pennington go for about $400 and Don Recker are not much more. Otherwise look up ebay auctions by Lew Parks and Dennis Stone. You can get some great deals on rods for them. There are many other dealers around too that represent other fine builders across the country.
Alternatively, look for rods finished out by builders on cane blanks built by reputable blank makers. Personally, I buy blanks and finish the rods out myself and sometimes sell these. This allows me to buy high quality blanks at reasonable prices and finish it out myself thus avoiding the expense that high end builders charge to finish out the rod completely. Check my website link to get an idea of what I mean.
If you are interested in other recommendations for North American builders or even some better Chinese manufacturers, let me know.
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  #40  
Old 06-10-2013, 08:19 AM
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Lornce Lornce is offline
 
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Since we are talking makers here I would also recommend Don Anderson a member of the forum, he build a very nice product geared for our waters.
http://bamboorods.ca
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Often I have been exhausted on trout streams, uncomfortable, wet, cold, briar scarred, sunburned, mosquito bitten,
but never, with a fly rod in my hand have I been in a place that was less than beautiful.

My blog - casting on the waters

fishing regulations and facts on fish handling
Fishing Regulations
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  #41  
Old 06-19-2013, 10:32 PM
MtnGiant MtnGiant is offline
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ooops

sorry boyz

made an unintended comment that should have been a pm.....but i was committed by then to post

Last edited by MtnGiant; 06-19-2013 at 10:46 PM.
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