Shotgun pattern for ethical coyote kill

[Fordevr]

I got a new Stoeger M3500 shotgun to assist my Tikka T3 .204 Varmint when there are close range coyotes, because even a 32 Gr. Hornady vmax in .204 can make a pretty big entrance hole at 15-30 yards. I have shot some different loads on paper to see patterns and was wondering how many inches is acceptable for a pattern to make a ethical kill. I used Hornady BB mag coyote and Hornady 00 Mag coyote. I also want to try some #4 buck Hornady varmint but haven't had a chance yet. These pics are with 2 different chokes and 2 different loads. I see Les Johnson use both in his videos but I think he uses the BB more and in his videos he reaches 40-50 yards which I kinda think is a max distance for a shotgun, ethically. Thoughts...

[J0HN_R1]

I think that Les Johnson guy uses a full choke... Would tighten those patterns up a bit more, thus extending the range...

50 yds with the BB, 65 yds with the 00 buck.

[Fordevr]

I called Stoeger to ask if there is a difference between tungsten lead and steel and they said yes it is in a catagory by itself. They said that improved modified is the tightest to go with tungsten and the box of ammo says to use Imp cyl. or Modified.

I asked les and he said the versatite wad does the work but you need to pattern your shotgun. He said he used a modified on his last 2 doubles. The m3500 comes with 4 chokes but not the Imp. Mod....I might have to get the Imp. Modified just to see.

[tikka250]

The mod choke is probably your best bet if you are running the hornady stuff as it says right on the box that imp or mod is prefered. I have found the hornady coyote bb and 4s to be really good on coyotes.

[Fordevr]

Originally Posted by tikka250

The mod choke is probably your best bet if you are running the hornady stuff as it says right on the box that imp or mod is prefered. I have found the hornady coyote bb and 4s to be really good on coyotes.

Ya that's kinda what I figured. If you can make the 00 hit a good spot they would be great but they looks pretty sparse on paper even at 30 yrds.

[Fordevr]

I asked Les 2 questions about his favorite Hornady load and shot placement for shotgun and took a screenshot of his reply. Great guy always willing to answer questions from beginner to pro.

[J0HN_R1]

Originally Posted by Fordevr

I called Stoeger to ask if there is a difference between tungsten lead and steel and they said yes it is in a category by itself. They said that improved modified is the tightest to go with tungsten and the box of ammo says to use Imp cyl. or Modified.

I asked Les and he said the versatite wad does the work but you need to pattern your shotgun. He said he used a modified on his last 2 doubles. The m3500 comes with 4 chokes but not the Imp. Mod... I might have to get the Imp. Modified just to see.

That chart you posted says not to use the Imp Mod choke with steel... Wouldn't nickel plated be considered "steel" ?

[antmai]

I have always found in interesting-no sarcasm in the slightest-that people are worried about 'ethical' kills on varmint control.
Gophers are most commonly preferred to be hit with vapourizing(fast, ethical death) effect, yet 'yotes get special consideration. If not saving the pelt, I am curious why this animal doesn't just get vapourized as well. It is, in effect, not different than a gopher. It is a creature that has become decidedly inconvenient.
When the decision is made to kill out of 'convenience', I am curious why it matters how it dies. In this case, I am assuming the use of shotgun for land restriction reasons, but maybe I am mistaken. Otherwise, the badder the delivery of the round, the better.
I am miles and miles from animal rights stuff but I am also miles and miles from being a 'let's kill sh!t and cheer over it' kind of guy. I really am just curious.

[tikka250]

Originally Posted by antmai

I have always found in interesting-no sarcasm in the slightest-that people are worried about 'ethical' kills on varmint control.
Gophers are most commonly preferred to be hit with vapourizing(fast, ethical death) effect, yet 'yotes get special consideration. If not saving the pelt, I am curious why this animal doesn't just get vapourized as well. It is, in effect, not different than a gopher. It is a creature that has become decidedly inconvenient.
When the decision is made to kill out of 'convenience', I am curious why it matters how it dies. In this case, I am assuming the use of shotgun for land restriction reasons, but maybe I am mistaken. Otherwise, the badder the delivery of the round, the better.
I am miles and miles from animal rights stuff but I am also miles and miles from being a 'let's kill sh!t and cheer over it' kind of guy. I really am just curious.

Most guys are trying to keep pelt damage to a minimum as hides are worth going after these days. The reasons for having a shotgun for yotes is when calling in heavy bush as coyotes come fast and close to the point where a rifle is no longer very usefull. Even if coyotes were not worth anything i would still use my 22-250 as it kills amazingly well. After the bullet explodes inside a yote the whole inner chest cavity is pretty much jello.

[Fordevr]

Originally Posted by antmai

I have always found in interesting-no sarcasm in the slightest-that people are worried about 'ethical' kills on varmint control.
Gophers are most commonly preferred to be hit with vapourizing(fast, ethical death) effect, yet 'yotes get special consideration. If not saving the pelt, I am curious why this animal doesn't just get vapourized as well. It is, in effect, not different than a gopher. It is a creature that has become decidedly inconvenient.
When the decision is made to kill out of 'convenience', I am curious why it matters how it dies. In this case, I am assuming the use of shotgun for land restriction reasons, but maybe I am mistaken. Otherwise, the badder the delivery of the round, the better.
I am miles and miles from animal rights stuff but I am also miles and miles from being a 'let's kill sh!t and cheer over it' kind of guy. I really am just curious.

I kill everything as quickly and humane as possible. Gophers flies mice and coyotes. (Mosquitos I let suffer jj) I do keep coyote pelts so we don't want big holes. The coyotes we kill are a danger to farm animals and pets. Shotgun is pelt friendly despite what many ppl including my self would think. Hornady makes a bb that is lead covered with tungsten coyote load I like and I'm also experimenting with other aftermarket chokes and lead. Just seeing how everything patterns. A week ago I could have got 2 if I had the shotgun, or would have had a better chance to get two I should say.lol

[Fordevr]

Originally Posted by J0HN_R1

That chart you posted says not to use the Imp Mod choke with steel... Wouldn't nickel plated be considered "steel" ?

Sry just saw this. The way I understand it is nickel plated comes in between steel and lead so I think it will be ok.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by J0HN_R1

That chart you posted says not to use the Imp Mod choke with steel... Wouldn't nickel plated be considered "steel" ?

Nope it is still lead , same as copper plated shot, still lead based so it will compress slightly where steel shot will not.
Cat

[Fordevr]

Originally Posted by Fordevr

I called Stoeger to ask if there is a difference between tungsten lead and steel and they said yes it is in a catagory by itself. They said that improved modified is the tightest to go with tungsten and the box of ammo says to use Imp cyl. or Modified.

I asked les and he said the versatite wad does the work but you need to pattern your shotgun. He said he used a modified on his last 2 doubles. The m3500 comes with 4 chokes but not the Imp. Mod....I might have to get the Imp. Modified just to see.

So I got the Imp. Cylinder (*****) for my Stoeger and it actually Pattern the Hornady Nickel plated BB Coyote load reasonably well (especially at 8 yards lol)Think I'll try the pair on my next hunt.👍 Used the Black cloud BB with flex wad last time with the pattern Master anaconda choke and not the quick kill I was hoping for at close ranges. seems most of my patterns are to the left a bit so some of the disappointment could have been my shooting. 😦

[tikka250]

Originally Posted by Fordevr

So I got the Imp. Cylinder (*****) for my Stoeger and it actually Pattern the Hornady Nickel plated BB Coyote load reasonably well (especially at 8 yards lol)Think I'll try the pair on my next hunt.👍 Used the Black cloud BB with flex wad last time with the pattern Master anaconda choke and not the quick kill I was hoping for at close ranges. seems most of my patterns are to the left a bit so some of the disappointment could have been my shooting. 😦

that hornady bb is almost a bit much at 10 yards. shot one this last week with it. i just swung and shot as he ran past me at 11 yards. took me a second to realize why he was missing so many teeth when i went to pick him up

[Fordevr]

Wasn't a big hole with the black cloud at 8 yards but after that target with the hornady at 8 yards I'm not quite sure how that's possible... then again missing at 8 yards, I didn't think that was possible either ....dang you yote fever!! Made things right with my second shot, but the Black Cloud jamed for my 3 Rd shot and I was robbed of a double at 12 yards. Gah!