Road Maintenance Complaints

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by foothills26

See I disagree I think when a large corporation is awarded tax dollars for a contract to keep roads in a safe driving condition they should be forced to do so. There is obviously a problem with one company when you can clearly see where the next company takes over the road maintenance.

The problem isn't always the fault of the road maintenance company, although I think it is at partially in this case.

However, it can be the fault of the MCI. We had exactly that situation with the High Level department.
The government sent in a green MCI who had no idea what road maintenance was all about. He forbid us to use salt at temperatures lower then -10.
Problem is he got that idea from reading about US conditions. He thought it was -10c when in fact what he read was using Fahrenheit temperatures.

We had icy roads for several winters until he figured it out.

Our government has a policy of hiring desert dwellers for their field offices. They are fine folks for the most part but have no understanding of how to deal with the conditions we face.

[WV911]

First off please don't turn this into a Ontario bashing, Im just relating my own experience.

I have only lived in Alberta for a year but the big problem I have seen is the lack of salt usage. I assume its either a budget thing or huge supplies of salt are not available here or both.

Before you say salt won't work in this climate I call BS, I was in that business for 30 years in Ontario and it works a lot colder then people are led to believe.

My short dead end street in Ontario was in better shape a couple of hours after a storm than Highway 1 a day after a storm.

Once that snow is packed down, its very tough to lift it without something like salt melting it.

Salt is really hard on your vehicle and the surrounding environment so pick your poison, bare roads and rust or get snow tires and learn how to drive.

[HVA7mm]

Originally Posted by WV911

First off please don't turn this into a Ontario bashing, Im just relating my own experience.

I have only lived in Alberta for a year but the big problem I have seen is the lack of salt usage. I assume its either a budget thing or huge supplies of salt are not available here or both.

Before you say salt won't work in this climate I call BS, I was in that business for 30 years in Ontario and it works a lot colder then people are led to believe.

My short dead end street in Ontario was in better shape a couple of hours after a storm than Highway 1 a day after a storm.

Once that snow is packed down, its very tough to lift it without something like salt melting it.

Salt is really hard on your vehicle and the surrounding environment so pick your poison, bare roads and rust or get snow tires and learn how to drive.

I say option number 2. Sodium chloride/calcium chloride is way too hard on vehicles/infrastructure.

[lannie]

We have Volker Stevin down here and I think they do a great job.

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by HVA7mm

I say option number 2. Sodium chloride/calcium chloride is way too hard on vehicles/infrastructure.

This.. salt is evil.. and I'm not convinced this other juice is much better

[PartTimeHunter]

I was trucking up north when B.C. switched to private contractors. Night and day difference and not for the better. Stopped at the brake check on Steamboat one day and had a chat with a grader operator who was having a coffee. Pointed at the grader with a smooth blade on and said - you got the wrong blade on. His reply was that he knew that but they had to get special permission from the regional manager to use the ice blade.
This is what I expected when Alberta switched to private contractors and for the most part that holds true. There are a few areas that get better service than most but very few. It is about profit not road safety now.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by WV911

First off please don't turn this into a Ontario bashing, Im just relating my own experience.

I have only lived in Alberta for a year but the big problem I have seen is the lack of salt usage. I assume its either a budget thing or huge supplies of salt are not available here or both.

Before you say salt won't work in this climate I call BS, I was in that business for 30 years in Ontario and it works a lot colder then people are led to believe.

My short dead end street in Ontario was in better shape a couple of hours after a storm than Highway 1 a day after a storm.

Once that snow is packed down, its very tough to lift it without something like salt melting it.

Salt is really hard on your vehicle and the surrounding environment so pick your poison, bare roads and rust or get snow tires and learn how to drive.

The practical limit for salt use is -20 Celsius or -10 Fahrenheit.
It will work at temperatures well below that but it takes so long to melt the ice at those temperatures that it gets kicked off the road by traffic before it can do it's thing.

The reason less salt is used here is due to complaints from the public due to the damage it does to metal vehicle bodies.

There is a huge salt mine over in Saskatchewan so quantity is not a problem. It's shipped into Alberta by the train load.

White ice, snow turned to ice is very difficult to remove. The problem is it is very difficult to maintain a strong enough brine solution.
As the ice melts it dilutes the brine to the point that it is not strong enough to keep the water produced from freezing. If it's not topped up that water will freeze creating salt ice when is rubbery and slippery and harder to thaw with chemicals.

Calcium Chloride is worse in many ways but it does have two advantages.
One it works at lower temperatures and two, it stays on the road better.

It also is a lot more corrosive and it can make a road slippery that would not be if Calcium were not used.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by PartTimeHunter

I was trucking up north when B.C. switched to private contractors. Night and day difference and not for the better. Stopped at the brake check on Steamboat one day and had a chat with a grader operator who was having a coffee. Pointed at the grader with a smooth blade on and said - you got the wrong blade on. His reply was that he knew that but they had to get special permission from the regional manager to use the ice blade.
This is what I expected when Alberta switched to private contractors and for the most part that holds true. There are a few areas that get better service than most but very few. It is about profit not road safety now.

Only partially true. Ice blades can not be used on pavement, they tear up the ashphalt.

When straight blades are used on a gravel road it is either a cost cutting measure or the foreman does not know his job. Which also happens.

[WV911]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

The practical limit for salt use is -20 Celsius or -10 Fahrenheit.
It will work at temperatures well below that but it takes so long to melt the ice at those temperatures that it gets kicked off the road by traffic before it can do it's thing.

The reason less salt is used here is due to complaints from the public due to the damage it does to metal vehicle bodies.

There is a huge salt mine over in Saskatchewan so quantity is not a problem. It's shipped into Alberta by the train load.

White ice, snow turned to ice is very difficult to remove. The problem is it is very difficult to maintain a strong enough brine solution.
As the ice melts it dilutes the brine to the point that it is not strong enough to keep the water produced from freezing. If it's not topped up that water will freeze creating salt ice when is rubbery and slippery and harder to thaw with chemicals.

Calcium Chloride is worse in many ways but it does have two advantages.
One it works at lower temperatures and two, it stays on the road better.

It also is a lot more corrosive and it can make a road slippery that would not be if Calcium were not used.

You are right about the calcium chloride, it is worse than salt for corrosion as it gets into every small nook and cranny

[does it ALL outdoors]

Originally Posted by Jimm

I just get so tired of everyone complaining about everything all the time

So, you're complaining about complaining?

[PartTimeHunter]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Only partially true. Ice blades can not be used on pavement, they tear up the ashphalt.

When straight blades are used on a gravel road it is either a cost cutting measure or the foreman does not know his job. Which also happens.

The year before they were using ice blades. It wasn't pavement at the time, may have been paved when they changed the road. I don't know, haven't been up there since construction was started though a soak at Liard River would be nice again!

[blgoodbrand1]

Originally Posted by does it ALL outdoors

So, you're complaining about complaining?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by PartTimeHunter

The year before they were using ice blades. It wasn't pavement at the time, may have been paved when they changed the road. I don't know, haven't been up there since construction was started though a soak at Liard River would be nice again!

I had heard they use straight blades on some gravel roads in BC.

Doesn't make sense to me. Scandic blades do so much better, even the hair comb blades did a better job.

But I could see them running carbide straight blades as a cost cutting measure. It's foolish in my opinion but I don't make those decisions.

[Xbolt7mm]

Originally Posted by does it ALL outdoors

So, you're complaining about complaining?

lol, that's funny

[urban rednek]

Originally Posted by Xbolt7mm

lol, that's funny

Yeah it is, especially when someone forgets that it was their sock puppet account that was quoted.
Jimm meet Xbolt7mm

OT- I have often wondered if the plow truck operator in a poorly maintained section of highway has any connection to a local tow truck operation?

[Xbolt7mm]

Originally Posted by urban rednek

Yeah it is, especially when someone forgets that it was their sock puppet account that was quoted.
Jimm meet Xbolt7mm

OT- I have often wondered if the plow truck operator in a poorly maintained section of highway has any connection to a local tow truck operation?

My kid is living with me for work, computer was on the island and dumb little arse just posted without signing out and signing himself in, I see he edited something but not sure what he posted. You may have something there too, Jim used to run a plow truck and now he drives a tow truck lol. Thx.

[sns2]

Good call Urban Redneck.

Folks, if you suspect a user with multiple accounts just send the all the mods a group pm. It only takes a minute to root em out. They are in almost all cases the crap disturbers that keep new users from posting.

[Dean2]

Well, it would appear that once again it does pay to raise issues when you see them. Attached is the response from the Provincial Minister of Highways. Ric McIver. I also had conversations with a few people. Apparently Ledcor's performance has been an issue for a while but because the public wasn't complaining not much was happening. Because of my complaint about road conditions and the large delta in quality of response from the various contract holders they are actually doing some work on Ledcor's performance.

All in, just like it has always been, if you don't like what is happening and just complain on social media, not much is likely to change. Get hold of the right people, be factual and respectful and you actually can make a difference.

Dear Dean:

Thank you for your recent letter/email regarding winter maintenance on Alberta’s highways. I appreciate you taking the time to bring your concerns to my attention.

During winter storms, the department prioritizes snowplowing and spreading of ice control materials on major and minor highways. Highway maintenance contractors are required to respond to winter events in a timely manner. Their performance is monitored through the use of global positioning systems (GPS) on all plow trucks and graders to ensure contractual obligations and provincial standards are met. Following the storm, a review is conducted on the contractor’s overall performance and response; your input will help determine necessary improvements for future winter events.

With regards to the winter storm event in early November, the department has met with the highway maintenance contractor to discuss their response and lessons learned. The contractor is working closely with the department to improve their performance. They are actively making changes including applying de-icing materials to the highway surface in advance of a winter event, pre-wetting sand to aid in its ability to stick on to the highway surface and adjusting night time and day resources to take advantage of the higher daytime ambient temperatures

I appreciate your patience and safe driving practices while travelling on Alberta’s highways. You can find road condition information and track the movement of contractors’ snowplows on the 511 website at 511.alberta.ca.

Should you have further questions, I encourage you to contact Alberta Transportation’s regional staff. A map of regional offices, complete with contact information can be found online at http://www.alberta.ca/assets/documen...es-contact.pdf.

Thank you for writing.

Sincerely,


Ric McIver
Minister

[RandyBoBandy]