copper fouling on tikka stainless

[RUSTY262]

I'm ready to throw away my tikka stainless laminate 243 because i can't hold an 8" group at 100 yards but since i'm stubborn i need to figure it out. I've checked everything including having taken it to a gunsmith and several gun shops. changed bases, rings, scopes, ammo, shooter, rest, and nothing. Last night i read about copper fouling and put some wipeout in the bore overnight. This morning the patch was navy blue. Would this cause that much inaccuracy? Any advice or thoughts would be much appreciated. The rifle has some sentimental value as it was my first. The first three years i could hold 2inch groups at 200 yards off a bipod.

If it hasn't been cleaned in all that time, sure, that could be the problem. You figure that's the first question a gunsmith would have asked on a rifle that used to shoot and doesn't any more. Give it a good cleaning and go shoot it.

[RUSTY262]

i've spent 2 days working on it with cleaner and brushes but I don't think it was very effective by the looks of the patch that came out.

[RUSTY262]

around the same time that my accuracy went to s**t i also noticed an increase in percussion. would the fouling increase that.

[Ice Fishing Maniac]

Keep on cleaning the barrel till the patches are clean. This may take awhile by the sounds of it. Get a good bore cleaner / copper remover and let soak longer.

[Dick284]

Percussion??????

Can you elaborate........

And yes a brush and a lot of solvents especially stuff like Hoppes #9 and nitro solvents will not touch copper.

If it does'nt claim to be a copper solvent it is'nt, 9 times out of 10.


To me it sounds like you've got something bigger than a copper issue...but start with the easy fixes first then move to the more difficult ones.

Step by step trouble shooting.

Let us know how this progresses.

[gitrdun]

I recently had a gun brought to me that used to group nicely and no longer did. A throrough and extensive cleaning brought it back to its former self.

Wipeout is a very good product and I use it for most of my cleaning. If you suspect copper fouling, I would suggest something more agressive towards copper, such as Barnes CR10 or Montana Extreme. These products contain ammonia which is what adresses the copper fouling, but a word of caution as you'll see in the labels, DO NOT use brass brushes as ammonia will attack the brush and you'll never accomplish anything. Another caution with these products, don't sniff the bottle out of curiosity, your head will explode, and make sure you use it in a well ventilated area.

Another thing that I would check is your barrel crown. Make sure that it is not damaged, a small dent will throw your rounds all over the map.

Good luck!

edit: wow, 3 posts while I took 3 minutes to type the above, awesome.

[Jamie Black R/T]

Originally Posted by RUSTY262

I've checked everything including having taken it to a gunsmith and several gun shops. changed bases, rings, scopes, ammo, shooter, rest, and nothing.

has anyone had the stock off? those tikka have a funny recoil lug...ive seen guys with their action screws only have way in because of that bugger.

just something to look at.

tough to imagine a gunsmith not being able to find something wrong with a previous MOA shooter turning into a turd.

[RUSTY262]

crown is in perfect condition. first used hoppes 9 with brass brush- big mistake. seems like wipeout took a lot out last night. When was reffering to percussion, I was meaning the bang it makes sounded more like a .308 than a 243. would fouling increase pressure in the barrel?

[RUSTY262]

also stock has been off several times and action screws are properly seated

[RUSTY262]

will wipeout take care of all fouling or should i use something else for the copper?

[gitrdun]

Wipeout takes care of my minor copper fouling, but I don't shoot monometal bullets such as TSX's and I don't let things go out of hand before cleaning. If you suspect copper, then I would personally address it with a high ammonia product, CR10, Montana Extreme.

Btw! how are your groups stringing, vertical, horizontal, or shotgun pattern?

[RUSTY262]

groups are all over the map up down left right

[209x50]

Last night I used Western Extreme Copper Killer on a 270 win that hadn't been copper cleaned in its 15 year life. In 10 min of cleaning it went from a 5-6" shooter to sub MOA. Most dramatic results I've ever seen with 8 or 9 patches

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by RUSTY262

groups are all over the map up down left right

Get that bore squeaky clean. Although the experience that I had was not as dramatic as 209x50, it was very similar, from 2 - 3" down to nearly MOA, reloads brought it down sub- MOA.

[catnthehat]

I would keep at it with wipeout, leaving it sit overnight for each application.
chuck had a thread a little while ago where he actually took most of a carbon ring out intake using wipeout - never seen that before!!

The stuff is tremedous, what i d however is spray the bore with amzoil first to get out any oiwder fouling so the wipeout doesn't have to eat throiugh that to get at the copper.
cat

[gitrdun]

Cat, glad you mention this Amzoil, I noticed our local Peavy Mart carries their brand. Which product specifically, and can you describe your application method? thanks.

[Ice Fishing Maniac]

Do you reload or shoot factory rounds?? If you reload, maybe they are too HOT.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

Cat, glad you mention this Amzoil, I noticed our local Peavy Mart carries their brand. Which product specifically, and can you describe your application method? thanks.

Amzoil foaming Engine Cleaner is what have used for quite some time for my rifles - it even works on motors - go figure!!

Cat

[H380]

I had a similar problem with a 22-250 , groups were all over the place .. Cleaned it then used wipeout and couldn't beleive the blue paint that came out . Got it back to near previous groups but only to a certain point . I suspect I damaged the barrel some what by not keeping it clean enough . All my guns now are kept alot cleaner .

[Gary K]

where can i get wipeout?
sounds like some great stuff!

[waterhaulerhunter]

I've got wipeout and P&D in Edmonton and backcountry supply in camrose carries it now too! It's awesome stuff! I had a rem 700 that when I bought shot sub moa and slowly dropped to about 3" groups at 100yds. All I ever cleaned it with was hoppes 9. Then I heard about wipeout and after 3-4 separate overnight soaks its back to the way it was when I bought.

[couleefolk]

i had the same problem, tried everything! i brought my wifes 22-250 from 12" down to 7/16" by soaking coppermelt overnight for 4 nights in a row. found out the moly bullets really fouled it up. somewhere on this site someone also mentioned using powertune from mercury outboards to clean the barrel, i think i'll try that next time. my barrel went bad rather quickly, and i was ready to buy a new barrel, had nothing to loose, so i ignored the directions that said not to leave coppermelt in the barrel, and found the root of my problem. cheap fix, nice shooter once again.

[vinegar]

Originally Posted by RUSTY262

crown is in perfect condition. first used hoppes 9 with brass brush- big mistake. seems like wipeout took a lot out last night. When was reffering to percussion, I was meaning the bang it makes sounded more like a .308 than a 243. would fouling increase pressure in the barrel?

Why is hoppes #9 with brass brush bad?

[catnthehat]

Dunno if I would leave coppermelt in a bore over night, is it not ammonia based?
sullijr told me about Mercury Quicksilver Power Tune many years ago, he read about it in precision Shooting IIRC, Sinclair's even carried it it worked so well!
Amzoil is basically the same thing, as is Delco's tuning foam, etc.
Cat

[gitrdun]

So Cat, is that Amsoil stuff the intake and carbon cleaner stuff for the engine internals, or is it the stuff that you spray on the outside of the engine to give it a shampoo. I saw the intake foam that you spray into the carb as thd engine runs for $7.99 at Peavy Mart today, but I figured it would be best to hear from you first.

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Dunno if I would leave coppermelt in a bore over night, is it not ammonia based?
Cat

Yes, a very high concentration ammonia.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by vinegar

Why is hoppes #9 with brass brush bad?

Becasue it only reduces powder and carbon fouling.

Copper is what this guy trying to deal with...unfortunatly Hoppes does not cut it in this department.

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by vinegar

Why is hoppes #9 with brass brush bad?

I'm thinking that most of us frequent shooters and bore cleaners would stay away from those brass brushes no matter what we clean our barrels with. Especially any bore cleaners that contain ammonia. I have brass brushes, and I only use them to clean the i nside of the neck on my brass when I'm either too lazy to tumble my brass or load development doesn't allow the time. Brass brushes in my rifle bores....NEVER GONNA HAPPEN?

[Redneck Renagade]

What about Birchwood Casey bore scrubber