"Bought a rifle for the wife and kids"

[Kurt505]

I see this posted often, and have even done it myself. "Bought a 243/7mm-08/260rem for my wife/kid. Have no problem sending them out afield after deer, elk, moose, bear, but for some reason I need a 300wby mag to kill a 250lb deer!

If a 243/7mm-08/260 is good enough for a less expirienced hunter, and presumably not as good of a shot, then why isn't it suitable for the more expirienced, more accurate shooter? Is it a man thing? "If it don't bite when it kicks, it's not big enough for a man"?

I've had a pile of magnums, some in ultralight rifles, and they were no more effective on game than my 308's, 280's, or even my sons 243. I can see if a guy was a host on "the best of the west" or something, where you're shooting (at) elk at 1200yds on a regular basis, but for my personal style of hunting, where a 500yd shot is considered stretching it out, I've come to the conclusion that maybe a 308 based case is big enough, with a 1906 base case being as big as a guy will ever need.

So, I bought my wife a 25-06 and my kid a 270, this year I'm going to use a 260 or 7mm-08.

[fish_e_o]

i built a lightweight 6.5x47 for this year

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

i built a lightweight 6.5x47 for this year

That's another nice little cartridge I wouldn't mind owning one day.

[leo]

I think it's more a case of starting out younger and smaller shooters with a cartridge and gun combo that doesn't affect their shooting ability due to recoil, no different than wearing ear plugs to cut down on boom flinch. Bad shooting form and habits can really demoralize a shooter as well as make them miss or wound critters. Absolutely these smaller, non magnum cartridges will suffice for most of North American hunting situations. Saying that I'm also of the opinion that you can't over kill an animal. There's no such thing as too dead in my opinion. I use larger rifles than my wife or daughter because the recoil doesn't bother me and because I can. I use enough gun for every circumstance and will continue to until my health or body tells me to put the big boomers away and use a lesser cartridge. Also of note however, one of, if not the most vicious kicking rifle I ever owned was a Winchester model 88 in 308. If you weren't paying attention you were paying a trip to the Dr. for stitches. Scope bite extraordinaire! A proper fitting gun for the individual shooter is very important.

[rembo]

[couleefolk]

I think from what is being said, that if the shooter can still get their game with the lesser powered firearm, they at that point are actually a better hunter because they have had to really hunt their game, opposed to someone that has found it 1000 yards away and can just shoot it. You have to give archers a lot of respect for getting their game with limited shooting distance. Always the other side of the coin to look at.

[oldgutpile]

Originally Posted by leo

I think it's more a case of starting out younger and smaller shooters with a cartridge and gun combo that doesn't affect their shooting ability due to recoil, no different than wearing ear plugs to cut down on boom flinch. Bad shooting form and habits can really demoralize a shooter as well as make them miss or wound critters. Absolutely these smaller, non magnum cartridges will suffice for most of North American hunting situations. Saying that I'm also of the opinion that you can't over kill an animal. There's no such thing as too dead in my opinion. I use larger rifles than my wife or daughter because the recoil doesn't bother me and because I can. I use enough gun for every circumstance and will continue to until my health or body tells me to put the big boomers away and use a lesser cartridge. Also of note however, one of, if not the most vicious kicking rifle I ever owned was a Winchester model 88 in 308. If you weren't paying attention you were paying a trip to the Dr. for stitches. Scope bite extraordinaire! A proper fitting gun for the individual shooter is very important.

^^this x 2

I like my .358 norma. Heck, I've even packed a .375 for deer. No such thing as too dead, and with a heavy well-constructed bullet, LESS meat damage.
I dont expect I will start my grandkids out with either of these guns though!

[leo]

Originally Posted by couleefolk

I think from what is being said, that if the shooter can still get their game with the lesser powered firearm, they at that point are actually a better hunter because they have had to really hunt their game, opposed to someone that has found it 1000 yards away and can just shoot it. You have to give archers a lot of respect for getting their game with limited shooting distance. Always the other side of the coin to look at.

Don't confuse a "Better hunter" with a "Better shot". The farthest I've shot and killed an animal was just shy of 400 yards. Whitetail buck with a 300 Weatherby magnum. I could have made that shot with a 25-06 but I was carrying a 300. I'm not going to brag about how many animals I've shot, but I would bet it's more than most on here.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by leo

Don't confuse a "Better hunter" with a "Better shot". The farthest I've shot and killed an animal was just shy of 400 yards. Whitetail buck with a 300 Weatherby magnum. I could have made that shot with a 25-06 but I was carrying a 300. I'm not going to brag about how many animals I've shot, but I would bet it's more than most on here.

i agree you can't be a better hunter than someone and a worse shot.

"i got really close i just missed" lol i would say that makes you not very good at all, arguably worse

[Xbolt7mm]

You can sure tell hunting season is over

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by Xbolt7mm

You can sure tell hunting season is over

http://www.albertaregulations.ca/huntingregs/

i knew right away

[Beeman3]

I own large and small calibers. Just finished building my second 6.5x47. Should finish at 8 lbs complete. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a deer out to 700 yds under the right conditions. With my heavy x47 and 130 Berger running 3000 fps. As stated some of the bigger guns driving heavier bullets do extend your effective range. No need for a big magnum to kill a deer at 500 yds let alone 200 yds.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by Beeman3

With my heavy x47 and 130 Berger running 3000 fps

might wanna back that one off a touch

[Erik]

I like a lot of the medium calibers and descendants of the .308 and 30-06, too. I enjoy the 06 descendants a bit more than the .308 descendants, but outside of that I feel like conventional calibers like that are more interesting for me than the magnums/weatherby and wildcat cartridges. All personal choice. I imagine there are lots that disagree.

[1899b]

Yup look at how archery tackle is the in thing and has never been so popular with likes of cool athletic dudes like Cam Hanes or Donnie Vincent representing but a .30-.30 Winchester is a popgun and can't be trusted to kill game.

[Beeman3]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

might wanna back that one off a touch

Why's that? This is the load recommended to me by R Bros who built my rifle. The reamer he uses may be a lot different than what other guys are using. There is no pressure signs at all. When I asked Travis about this load he assured me it was not even at max for my rifle. He sent me a dummy round with the rifle and also the powder and primer I should use. I have not tried any other loads as this shoots incredible!! I tend to believe him as he has fired around 70,000 rounds of 6.5X47. It will be interesting to see how my current build turns out. I had to use a Manson reamer as R BRos won't divulge their reamer specs. Might not see that kind of speed with this one. What loads and speeds are you getting out of a 6.5X47??

[bb356]

Originally Posted by 1899b

Yup look at how archery tackle is the in thing and has never been so popular with likes of cool athletic dudes like Cam Hanes or Donnie Vincent representing but a .30-.30 Winchester is a popgun and can't be trusted to kill game.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by Beeman3

What loads and speeds are you getting out of a 6.5X47??

well i'm over max on a couple of my loads BUT it's different checking pressure signs with this cartridge than others you may not flatten a primer and be well over max.

36.5 gr varget with 130's was a max load for me (this is over max in books and online)

39.5 gr imr 4350 with 130's seems to be running well (this is over max in bergers book but under from hodgdon

every max load out there is hitting that 2800 fps range.

the amount you'd need to burn to get to 3000 is pretty dieseled up. i'd just check it quick to make sure you're not putting yourself in a dangerous situation because some "expert" told you to

[Beeman3]

Appreciate the feed back. I did check other loads and seems I am running what many others are. 42.2 gr of H4350. Also this is out of a full custom. 26" Broughton, Defiance action. as you know some barrels are faster than others. During break in it did exactly what the builder said it would. Ran about 2950-2965 fps. Then by 200 rounds it settled in at 3000 fps. Drops confirmed out to 910 yds. That's as far as the property allows me to shoot. I know I will definately work up slowly with my new X47. Different barrel and a trued 700 SA. I have seen some guys pushing 140's close to 3000 fps. That would worry me! Shouldn't get that out of a X47 as that is in 6.5-284 territory.

[fish_e_o]

well just be safe, if you notice primer pockets loosening up i would back her off. it's not bad to be over max, as every rifle is different. i'm sure yours with that action you have is fine the cartridge is good to like 63K or 65K psi reloading manuals don't list pressures that high.

i would just be careful of the loads you see online, a lot of those guys don't know any pressure signs other than a flattened primer.

[Pioneer2]

I would hesitate shooting any BG with a Berger bullet from the muzzle to 600 yards they all blow up and fail to enter the rib cage if bone is struck first.Your mileage may/will vary but one season using them made up my mind..several deer and elk autopsied.....two deer lost with solid chest hits.........Harold

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by Pioneer2

I would hesitate shooting any BG with a Berger bullet from the muzzle to 600 yards they all blow up and fail to enter the rib cage if bone is struck first.Your mileage may/will vary but one season using them made up my mind..several deer and elk autopsied.....two deer lost with solid chest hits.........Harold

i always shoot the shoulder even with bergers.

never lost an animal yet

[Beeman3]

Appreciate the concern. Yeah primer pockets are still perfect. My 6.5 Sherman is a whole different animal. Pressure peaks very fast on that one. But it's a hot rod to begin with.

[Beeman3]

No problem with Berger here. 25-06 AI with 115 gr. 7WSM 140 gr. 300 win mag and 215 gr. closest 30 yds. Farthest was 734 yds. All one shot bang flop dead!

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

If a 243/7mm-08/260 is good enough for a less expirienced hunter, and presumably not as good of a shot, then why isn't it suitable for the more expirienced, more accurate shooter? Is it a man thing? "If it don't bite when it kicks, it's not big enough for a man"?

I think you nailed it in your question/statement.

[1899b]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

If a 243/7mm-08/260 is good enough for a less expirienced hunter, and presumably not as good of a shot, then why isn't it suitable for the more expirienced, more accurate shooter? Is it a man thing? "If it don't bite when it kicks, it's not big enough for a man"?



Its the Alberta way. .338 Win mags and 38" tires with 6" lifts cuz nothing else is good enough. Overkill to the max.....

[getatmewolf]

Its the Alberta way. .338 Win mags and 38" tires with 6" lifts cuz nothing else is good enough. Overkill to the max.....[/QUOTE]


Hahahahaha, unreal, that's a pretty big paintbrush you have there. I have owned A LOT of calibers big and small, its just fun, if you like it then shoot it. My trials with different cartridges have me currently shooting a 280 and 257wby and the wife and kid shooting a 260. I fall into the "cant be overkilled" crowd but wont judge someone for shooting within their means whether that involves recoil or cost.

[covey ridge]

I have no argument with one should use as much gun as one can handle. I agree with leo that one can not over kill.

Is the size of the gun a man thing? Maybe not! It might be a Bubba thing?

I have sold firearms off and on since I retired 20 years ago. I have often been asked for advice by men who are buying a firearm for their lady or children.

My wife/son/daughter is getting into hunting! Can you help me finds something that she can handle?

or

I shoot a 30-378 myself and would not shoot anything smaller but when my girl friend tried it knocked her on her.................... what da ya got that's good for women and kids. By the way did I tell ya that I shoot a 30-378?

or

I have been hunting for x years with a 270. Do you a think a 270 would be OK for my wife/son/daughter?

[Kurt505]

I don't mind having more gun than I need, I like shooting a lot. I've had a pile of magnums, I sold my last one last year and at this point and time I just don't see me buying one in the near future. I grew up with a gun in my hand, 1899b and I even got hauled home by the cops when we were about 12 for Hunting grouse at the golf course where we grew up.

Recently I've been on an ultralight kick, packing around an ultralight reminds me of when I was a kid packing around my pellet gun or my 22. So for that reason I'm building my next rifle with a short action. I'll have a handy little rifle that weighs in around 5lbs, something I don't need a sling for that I can pack in my hand all day long. Maybe 260, maybe 7mm-08, maybe even 284win. It's going to be my grown up pellet gun.

[jayquiver]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I see this posted often, and have even done it myself. "Bought a 243/7mm-08/260rem for my wife/kid. Have no problem sending them out afield after deer, elk, moose, bear, but for some reason I need a 300wby mag to kill a 250lb deer!

If a 243/7mm-08/260 is good enough for a less expirienced hunter, and presumably not as good of a shot, then why isn't it suitable for the more expirienced, more accurate shooter? Is it a man thing? "If it don't bite when it kicks, it's not big enough for a man"?

I've had a pile of magnums, some in ultralight rifles, and they were no more effective on game than my 308's, 280's, or even my sons 243. I can see if a guy was a host on "the best of the west" or something, where you're shooting (at) elk at 1200yds on a regular basis, but for my personal style of hunting, where a 500yd shot is considered stretching it out, I've come to the conclusion that maybe a 308 based case is big enough, with a 1906 base case being as big as a guy will ever need.

So, I bought my wife a 25-06 and my kid a 270, this year I'm going to use a 260 or 7mm-08.

Your brand new 280ai is going to get lonely this year...so sad.