Wildlife Certificate & Reduced Wait Times??

[Outdoorfanatic]

Would like someone to clarify how charging for a Wildlife Certificate with a draw application reduces wait times?

[lyallpeder]

Originally Posted by Outdoorfanatic

Would like someone to clarify how charging for a Wildlife Certificate with a draw application reduces wait times?

I think the theory is, if I need to by a $28 wildlife certificate to enter draws I plan on 999ing and not drawing any time soon,I’ll be less likely to cough up the extra $28 and just wont enter the draw.

[raw outdoors]

I believe there are a bunch of animal rights people who flood the draw system and never intend on purchasing any tags. Alberta thinks if you have to purchase the certificate first it will be more money invested and I think they think the animal protection activists and people who don’t intend on hunting won’t invest that much money. I think they will. I don’t think it will change a thing. Maybe if the certificate was $100 it might thin out a few.

[elk eater]

Been talk about pre pay your tags to deter the activists. Pay the wild life very and $40 per draw you put I. If your drawn they keep the $40 and if not they refund it.

[thumper]

So now, if all I'm interested in hunting is a trophy antelope, it will cost me over $500 (if prices for the annual wildlife certificate, annual draw fee, and final license fee remain the same for the next 15 years or so that it'll take me to get drawn). This is far higher than a non-resident would pay in license fees to hunt antelope (+ outfitter costs), and they can hunt antelope every year!

So the government is making far more off of me for every antelope I take, (over a 15 year period) than it makes off an antelope taken by a non-resident.

[saskbooknut]

Prepay should only take effect if you are drawn for the tag.
There is a problem with people never paying for their tag after they are drawn.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by thumper

So now, if all I'm interested in hunting is a trophy antelope, it will cost me over $500 (if prices for the annual wildlife certificate, annual draw fee, and final license fee remain the same for the next 15 years or so that it'll take me to get drawn). This is far higher than a non-resident would pay in license fees to hunt antelope (+ outfitter costs), and they can hunt antelope every year!

So the government is making far more off of me for every antelope I take, (over a 15 year period) than it makes off an antelope taken by a non-resident.

How many people will only apply for a draw, and will not hunt birds or big game with over the counter tags?

Prepay should only take effect if you are drawn for the tag.
There is a problem with people never paying for their tag after they are drawn.

That would be the best idea, it would keep people from applying for tags that they don't really want.

[Nyksta]

Originally Posted by thumper

So now, if all I'm interested in hunting is a trophy antelope, it will cost me over $500 (if prices for the annual wildlife certificate, annual draw fee, and final license fee remain the same for the next 15 years or so that it'll take me to get drawn). This is far higher than a non-resident would pay in license fees to hunt antelope (+ outfitter costs), and they can hunt antelope every year!

So the government is making far more off of me for every antelope I take, (over a 15 year period) than it makes off an antelope taken by a non-resident.

How many people will fit into this situation of building points for 15 years without ever hunting anything else? Also, if buying a wildlife certificate first is a way to enforce the resident of Alberta requirement, and can now block non-residents from applying for draws as if they were residents, and discourages animal rights activist from putting in for as many draws, you may find that it will no longer be a 15 year wait. The extra $28.22 collected from every hunting participant per year has a portion that goes to fund conservation resources. Every hunter that hunts anything each year will see no difference.

And a non-resident tag + outfitter cost for non-resident antelope hunt = in the ballpark of $3500 to $5500 depending on the outfitter, so you are still ahead of the competition with the $500 accumulated fee.

[leeelmer]

I think strict residency requirements is a first.
Must be here 12 months before being able to hunt.(exception is military or LEO)
Must show alberta drivers licence and alberta health card to buy tags or enter draws.
Must put in credit card info when applying for draws and you are automatically charged if you are drawn?
Make application fee $10.00 per draw, it is not that high, but high enough to discourage people from just randomly putting in for draws that they never intend to hunt for.
No non resident tags(outfitter tags) for any animal that takes more than 2 years for a resident to draw.
Just my 2 cents

[3blade]

Originally Posted by elk eater

Been talk about pre pay your tags to deter the activists. Pay the wild life very and $40 per draw you put I. If your drawn they keep the $40 and if not they refund it.

I think it was Colorado (?) that used to do this, problem was the admin costs of refunds made it impossible to continue. They went to a style similar to ours, and the application rate went up massively. No easy answers.

I do think that if you draw, you should be automatically charged for that tag.

The wildlife certificate is something all hunters buy every year so hopefully it’ll deter the guys who are putting in for their wife, mom, uncle etc. Not sure how many antihunters apply, but if we make more off them then great - I doubt it’ll change their behavior though, they tend to be well funded.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Sadly there are only a few ways in which to lower wait times, only a few of which are beneficial to the plan.

Note: These are the available options how I see it and I don’t necessarily agree with each point below!


Strict residency requirements to be able to enter our draws

Strict residency requirements to be able to hunt

Give out more tags

Add more animals to hunt (not happening)

Split the draws based on weapon choice, can only choose 1 option to enter

Close up loopholes people use to enter draws and do not use the tags themselves

Make tags and draws cost more to eliminate some participation.

Limit how many draws one person can enter each year

Make all stakeholders take a reduction in allotment the years number are down

Change the hunter host, in that for whatever species drawn it becomes a partner tag instead of making it so everyone (host and hosted) must hold their own tag.

Make a portion of the high priority tags a straight lottery, you can enter the priority or the lottery not both


These are the options I see available.

LC

[elk eater]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Sadly there are only a few ways in which to lower wait times, only a few of which are beneficial to the plan.

Note: These are the available options how I see it and I don’t necessarily agree with each point below!


Strict residency requirements to be able to enter our draws

Strict residency requirements to be able to hunt

Give out more tags

Add more animals to hunt (not happening)

Split the draws based on weapon choice, can only choose 1 option to enter

Close up loopholes people use to enter draws and do not use the tags themselves

Make tags and draws cost more to eliminate some participation.

Limit how many draws one person can enter each year

Make all stakeholders take a reduction in allotment the years number are down

Change the hunter host, in that for whatever species drawn it becomes a partner tag instead of making it so everyone (host and hosted) must hold their own tag.

Make a portion of the high priority tags a straight lottery, you can enter the priority or the lottery not both


These are the options I see available.

LC

You missed one more that would increase the quotas substantially IMO and decrease priority levels. But that would involve all citizens of Alberta to be considered equal opportunity residents and it’s not politically correct to suggest such changes this day in age.

[Pikebreath]

Originally Posted by 3blade

The wildlife certificate is something all hunters buy every year so hopefully it’ll deter the guys who are putting in for their wife, mom, uncle etc.

Family applications in the hope someone gets drawn will certainly be more costly now!

[waldedw]

Originally Posted by raw outdoors

I believe there are a bunch of animal rights people who flood the draw system and never intend on purchasing any tags. Alberta thinks if you have to purchase the certificate first it will be more money invested and I think they think the animal protection activists and people who don’t intend on hunting won’t invest that much money. I think they will. I don’t think it will change a thing. Maybe if the certificate was $100 it might thin out a few.

I believe your correct on your thinking, but I think it will deter some of the people that enter draws with no intention of hunting unless they get drawn, the activists will still carry on as long as someone else is paying the shot, given that about 40% of all fees end up in the conservation pool it's a good thing.

The only people that complain about this is the people that are in the 28% that apply for tags and don't buy a licence unless they get drawn, and those that enter the wife, mother, mother in law etc. none of which actually hunt but do go for a ride the year they get drawn, we all know someone like that, if it takes them 6 years to get mommy a tag they will have invested about $200 each, for the rest of us that actually purchase a hunting license every year weather we get drawn or not it doesn't change a thing or add a penny to our cost, we just pay it in June instead of September.

[Dick284]

It’s no big deal in my eyes, back before WIN cards and the internet, you had to have your Wildlife Certificate, in order to enter draws, heck you had to mail your draws in with a cheque in the envelope incase you were drawn.

If it knocks 5% to 10% of the I hardly ever buy a hunting licence “unless” crowd out of the draw pool, I say good, if it dissuades the abusers or antis even just a little bit, I’m all for it.

If the Govt was serious about wait times, just roll out a practical shooting test like they do in the Scandinavian countries...........

That’d set back the “old lady”, and “old ladies” mother’s applications big time.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Dick284

If the Govt was serious about wait times, just roll out a practical shooting test like they do in the Scandinavian countries...........

That’d set back the “old lady”, and “old ladies” mother’s applications big time.

And more than likely a VERY large number of regular hunters as well!
Cat

[dave99]

I support the purchase of a WC in order to enter draws, and see it as a step in the right direction. Here are how it affects my family:

I hunt every year, choosing to build priority across the board and draw a special license for a different species every year. I would end up purchasing a WC regardless of my draw situation, so no skin off my back.

My wife hunts infrequently (most years does not hunt although she accompanies me on some hunts), but also builds priority for most species. She now needs to pony up the WC fee which she would not have otherwise purchased. No big deal, and worth it to have high priorities by the time our kids turn 12 to partner up with them.


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[dave99]

I applaud the WC purchase as a step in the right direction.

I would add (as many have mentioned):

- increase to $10 per draw application
- mandatory billing of credit card for the full license cost once a person is awarded a draw
- tougher screening of completion of Hunter’s Ed course, if needed

Also, I do not view the chronic 999ers as a problem to the system, as they continue to pay into the application system, as well as now through the WC purchase. Their banked priorities may scare us, when we compare them to our own (often lesser) priorities, but I fail to understand how by pouring money into conservation they would be a drain on the system.


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[CNP]

Go one step further by paying for the license at the same time as applying for the draw. If any hunter is committed to hunting for a species that they enter into the draw for they must be ready to accept the price of the license.

The idea of increasing fees should not be to discourage resident hunters by pricing them out of the tradition of hunting. Lets keep hunters honest and at the same time recognize that hunting should be something that could be undertaken by a person of modest means.

1. Do not change draw application fee.

2. Do not change license fees for residents (raise fees for NR).

3. Add charge for license at the time of draw application. No license charge for priority only draw.

4. License fee refunded automatically only if unsuccessful or draw application changed prior to cut off date.

5. Draw application charges would look like:

Antlered Moose draw application $3.65
Antlered Moose License fee $44.95
GST $2.43
Total Order $51.03

6. Add another $28.22 (plus $1.41 GST) on top of $51.03 and the total cost of entering into this one draw comes in at $80.66

[dave99]

Originally Posted by CNP

Go one step further by paying for the license at the same time as applying for the draw. If any hunter is committed to hunting for a species that they enter into the draw for they must be ready to accept the price of the license.

The idea of increasing fees should not be to discourage resident hunters by pricing them out of the tradition of hunting. Lets keep hunters honest and at the same time recognize that hunting should be something that could be undertaken by a person of modest means.

1. Do not change draw application fee.

2. Do not change license fees for residents (raise fees for NR).

3. Add charge for license at the time of draw application. No license charge for priority only draw.

4. License fee refunded automatically only if unsuccessful or draw application changed prior to cut off date.

5. Draw application charges would look like:

Antlered Moose draw application $3.65
Antlered Moose License fee $44.95
GST $2.43
Total Order $51.03

6. Add another $28.22 (plus $1.41 GST) on top of $51.03 and the total cost of entering into this one draw comes in at $80.66

CNP, seems pretty reasonable to me. I could get behind that.


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[tbrown]

I don't understand how people think there is a lack of hunting opportunity in Alberta.

Sure, waiting 13 years for an antelope tag kind of sucks. But, you can pull some good tags in Alberta with only 5 years priority for moose, elk, and mule deer. You just have to be willing to put in the time and miles.

How many tags do people need? You can buy over the counter rifle tags for general whitetail, supplemental whitetail, general elk, bear, and trophy sheep. And depending on where you live you can get county deer tags. If that isn't enough "opportunity" for you, pick up a bow! You'll have more "opportunity" than you can shake a stick at!

If you think there is a lack of hunting opportunity in Alberta, you are just being lazy.

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[RZR]

Originally Posted by tbrown

I don't understand how people think there is a lack of hunting opportunity in Alberta.

Sure, waiting 13 years for an antelope tag kind of sucks. But, you can pull some good tags in Alberta with only 5 years priority for moose, elk, and mule deer. You just have to be willing to put in the time and miles.

How many tags do people need? You can buy over the counter rifle tags for general whitetail, supplemental whitetail, general elk, bear, and trophy sheep. And depending on where you live you can get county deer tags. If that isn't enough "opportunity" for you, pick up a bow! You'll have more "opportunity" than you can shake a stick at!

If you think there is a lack of hunting opportunity in Alberta, you are just being lazy.

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Thanks for proving my point! There is absolutely nothing wrong with leaving the costs they way they presently are.

[marky_mark]

Now why would I take this pic off of my profile?

I kinda like it
I could use this one
It’s from the same trip
Or this one
Also from the same trip

Or this one
Climbing mountains at -30 chasing musk ox
Or these ones too




I got a lot more to choose from


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[RZR]

You just proved my point!

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by RZR

You just proved my point!

Whats your point? That I work harder than you?
I choose to work harder so I can hunt more
The amount of opportunities in alberta is limited and shrinking
But if you would rather spend your money on booze and smokes or dump 45k on a side by side thats your call
Id rather go hunting

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Whats your point? That I work harder than you?
I choose to work harder so I can hunt more
The amount of opportunities in alberta is limited and shrinking
But if you would rather spend your money on booze and smokes or dump 45k on a side by side thats your call
Id rather go hunting

They are complaining about finding $20 to apply for a trophy big game opportunity. I’m afraid your point will fall on deaf ears. But it does prove that an increase in cost will have an affect on wait times.

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by chuck

They are complaining about finding $20 to apply for a trophy big game opportunity. I’m afraid your point will fall on deaf ears. But it does prove that an increase in cost will have an affect on wait times.

Proves absolutely nothing. Your opinion isn't proof.

[RZR]

Originally Posted by chuck

They are complaining about finding $20 to apply for a trophy big game opportunity. I’m afraid your point will fall on deaf ears. But it does prove that an increase in cost will have an affect on wait times.

You seen how well that worked out this year by having to purchase a wildlife certificate? Your a hypocrite if you think raising the cost is going to work. If all your worried about Is the anti hunters eating up tags which you all seen how that worked out this year. Or your worried about your neighbor putting in all the draws for his wife and kids which is his right as a resident. If your worried about the nonresident who does nothing but cheat the system. Why don’t all the provincial governments of Canada get on the same data base and they could eliminate this double dipping by nonresidents. This would seem like a more logical fix.