Buying a truck with a lien

[Icouldeatababydeer]

So I bought a truck about a year and a half ago, wrote it off couple weeks ago and get a call from the insurance company today, turns out the 4500 dollar truck I bought with cash has a lien against it, so now the check I was suppose to get from the insurance company to replace it isn't coming in... Now what? Do I contact the seller and threaten with small claims court? Or just cut my losses?
Anyone else deal with this before? What can I do?

[Ken07AOVette]

verify the date the lien was placed, if after you bought it it is invalid

[Icouldeatababydeer]

It was before I bought it, he used it as collateral for child maintenance or something... My insurance company would not tell me how much it's for...

[Hooter]

Unfortunately I think you're SOL. I always do a title check on used vehicles at the local Registry Office.

[Icouldeatababydeer]

Haha, everyone I've talked to asked me why I didn't do that.. Didnt think of it. It was 99 f250. Figured it was good. Lesson learned.. I still have the bill of sale, he checked off the box that says free of liens... I guess you can't trust people... Lesson learned.

[FishingMOM]

Originally Posted by Icouldeatababydeer

Haha, everyone I've talked to asked me why I didn't do that.. Didnt think of it. It was 99 f250. Figured it was good. Lesson learned.. I still have the bill of sale, he checked off the box that says free of liens... I guess you can't trust people... Lesson learned.

You might have a leg to stand on.

[creeky]

Originally Posted by Hooter

Unfortunately I think you're SOL. I always do a title check on used vehicles at the local Registry Office.

Always check, tho likely too late-even now i would have one done.

Last truck i bought i checked right @ last minute. Found lien , called seller & it turned out it was on from the guy he bought it from. Bank had been lazy/cheap & not pulled the lien off. Turned out all good, for the $25 it's worth a try. Sucks big time, wish u luck in this :-)

Creeky

Forgot to add, i wouldn't take any insurances companies word, (not all that swift nor trustworthy). Do your own investigating.

[Ken07AOVette]

still got his name? failing to disclose is a easy case for a good collection agency

[longrange1000]

you can do your own lien check on it right now and find out the amount.

[Hooter]

Originally Posted by FishingMOM

You might have a leg to stand on.

X2

[Icouldeatababydeer]

Got his name address and phone number, but phone number isn't in service, did a 411 search on him, when I bought the truck he lived in Whitecourt, 411 came up with a fella with the same name in Edmonton, called it. The guy on the other end said he gets calls regularly for the other guy from people looking for money or from collection agencies...
This sucks,

[FishingMOM]

Originally Posted by Icouldeatababydeer

Got his name address and phone number, but phone number isn't in service, did a 411 search on him, when I bought the truck he lived in Whitecourt, 411 came up with a fella with the same name in Edmonton, called it. The guy on the other end said he gets calls regularly for the other guy from people looking for money or from collection agencies...
This sucks,

Talk to Ken
He is a bill collector that you dont ever want to mess with.
He will straighten this out for you

[Ken07AOVette]

I can maybe help. PM if you want.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

I can maybe help. PM if you want.

Ken... If I ever crossed you in a post... I am sorry.

Did I mention I think bill collectors are nice folks.

[Geezle]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

still got his name? failing to disclose is a easy case for a good collection agency

I think I know a guy in the business...

[Sooner]

My sister got a call long after she bought her car. It had a lien. Prior to her buying it a bank screwed up and never removed it. Hope that's the case for you. Sucks if you lose out on the payout.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

still got his name? failing to disclose is a easy case for a good collection agency

Ken, someone needs to follow you with a camera... it would be so fun to watch!

[FreeLantz]

Maybe this is a stupid question, but how does someone check for liens? I buy quite a bit of used beaters and I always wondered what the procedure is.

[Icouldeatababydeer]

Apparently you that the VIN to the registries and they can look it up...

[flange]

I was always under the impression you couldn't register a vehicle with a lein on it. Guess that was wrong. Sorry for you troubles.

[honda450]

Originally Posted by flange

I was always under the impression you couldn't register a vehicle with a lein on it. Guess that was wrong. Sorry for you troubles.

Exactly what happened to my buddy. He bought a sled with a lein on it and they would not register it or give him a plate for it. He was SOL.

[Sneeze]

A Lein does not mean somebody else owns your truck. It means they have a claim against it. Start by telling your insurer you don't consent to the funds going to the Lein holder.

Then send the Lein holder a letter asking for proof of a debt or to remove the Lein. (Fair trade act - Ken will know more with his line of work)

There is a ton of info about this on the net. A Lein is not a set in stone debt obligation to the current owner of property, it has to be substantiated. The lousy thing is it might cost you some $$ hiring a lawyer to be rid of it.

[dumoulin]

Take him to court.

[Mike_W]

I would send a copy of your bill of sale to your insurance co so they hold the money until you can prove it's cleared.
Once they send the money it's always tougher to get it back.

[honda450]

Originally Posted by dumoulin

Take him to court.

What good will become of that? He already owes money to somebody, now your going to sue him for more, court costs, legal fees loss of income. etc. And expect to collect your loss?

Laws are set up for the criminal not the law abiding citizen. Good luck if ya try and come out ahead. Or at par.

[6.5x47]

Every time I've purchased a used item that requires registration, registries has done a lien search before registering that item in my name. What happened here?

[schmedlap]

It's hard to know where to start...?
A "lien" can be a security interest (essentially a mortgage or lease, or lease option) or a writ of enforcement (the holder of a court judgment who has registered against the specific "serial number goods" - which includes motor vehicles). Except in the case of a writ, the registration does not tell you an amount. When you are registering your vehicle for licensing, with your bill of sale, the registry may do a lien search, but generally, not. The only search they do is to ensure the seller has the current or last license registration (i.e., he is the registered owner, or a licensed dealer with authority to transfer title, and the like).
A security interest registration is just electronic and does not require any filing of documents or disclosure of amount. As such it may or may not be valid, or may be expired - the banks and the rinky dink lenders and finance companies are often quite negligent in not discharging the registration unless specifically demanded, after payout. People who are owed money but don't have any signed security often think they can claim such an interest and register.
It is all governed by the Personal Property Security Act ("PPSA") and Civil Enforcement Act - the Fair Trading Act has nothing to do with this. Basically,if someone with a legitimate security interest has registered it before the purchaser acquires their interest, the interest holder retains their claim in priority to the purchaser. There is a process under PPSA to force the security claimant to prove their interest, available to anyone with a defined interest, including a purchaser.
So, anyone buying any vehicle, regardless of age, does so at their peril if they don't first do a lien search and ensure any registrations are removed as part of the process - it is common for the seller and purchaser to meet at the seller's bank to ensure the money goes to first clear the lien, and discharge is effected - just like the existing mortgae on the house one is buying.
You can do a lien search right now (any registry agent) and then force the claimant to "prove it" - the insurance company is equally able, and in fact required, to do this. If they do not, and the lien is not valid, they are negligent. If the lien is valid, then the holder gets the money, to the extent of their claim.
If the seller made a false representation of no liens on the bill of sale, innocently or otherwise, you basically have an "airtight" case for a civil claim in court, and I would go after him in all events. But, you will need all the info on the lien as the evidence in your case, so.. back to "get it". and include all your costs of getting the evidence, and any collateral costs and damages you suffered. The amounts here make it hard to justify getting a lawyer involved, but if the seller looks "solvent" then that may well be the way to go.
Getting a judgment is one thing - collecting is another. Your first clue that the seller is a deadbeat who will be hard to collect from is the very fact of his false representation (?).
There is more ... it is not necessarily as simple as all that ... but, if it were me, I would pursue the seller to his deathbed (?).
The "moral", however, is do not ever buy a vehicle, from anyone other than a licensed new car dealer (who is insured for such events) (I have seen cases of pure used car dealers who negligently or fraudulently sold liened vehicles), without first searching by both seller name and serial number!! EVER!!

[bearbait]

if hes from whitecourt pm me I may know him or be able to track him down for you.
ALWAYS LEIN CHECK ON VEH. PURCHSE!!

[dumoulin]

Originally Posted by honda450

What good will become of that? He already owes money to somebody, now your going to sue him for more, court costs, legal fees loss of income. etc. And expect to collect your loss?

Laws are set up for the criminal not the law abiding citizen. Good luck if ya try and come out ahead. Or at par.

That's not point. You got to try. The guys a thief. Thrives are chicken sh!t. He might cough up some dough for him once he's been served.

You don't need to haul in a 1000$/hour layer for this. If I were were him, I'd get legal advice and do it on my own. Worth a swing anyway....

See schmelap's post.

[1899b]

I was taught by the age of 14 to do lien checks. This was almost 20 years ago. This was also way better advice than having to ask a lawyer for advice after it was too late or having to interpret buy sell laws....