Alberta budget, and the NDP effect...

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by raab

You can believe what you want by heard there were some abusing the law. Not small farmers, but bigger places that were hiring immigrants and paying them less then minimum wage. The problem with the law is its a blanket law and doesn't take into account the needs of the family farmer.

Are you assuming that all farmers are squeaky clean?

That is as wise as assuming all business owners are squeaky clean.

That is as wise as assuming all people are similar to serial rapists.

[raab]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Are you assuming that all farmers are squeaky clean?

That is as wise as assuming all business owners are squeaky clean.

That is as wise as assuming all people are similar to serial rapists.

No but a small farmer can get around any law simply by saying the person is volunteering for them, and probably wont get caught as both parties will have the same story. Bigger places can't do that, but when there's a law saying you can pay people less then minimum wage it's pretty easy to abuse it.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by raab

No but a small farmer can get around any law simply by saying the person is volunteering for them, and probably wont get caught as both parties will have the same story. Bigger places can't do that, but when there's a law saying you can pay people less then minimum wage it's pretty easy to abuse it.

As can a small business. Many of the labour laws are in place because it was corporations / business who were taking advantage of people. In a proper free market the problem would resolve itself as people would soon look for work elsewhere, but alas, so many complained, we now have unions, backed by governments, taking away jobs from more efficient, non-union labour.

I get the feeling you are blaming farmers for something that they partake of very little, if at all.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by raab

No but a small farmer can get around any law simply by saying the person is volunteering for them, and probably wont get caught as both parties will have the same story. Bigger places can't do that, but when there's a law saying you can pay people less then minimum wage it's pretty easy to abuse it.

Do you fill out HA's where you work Raab?

[raab]

Originally Posted by hal53

Do you fill out HA's where you work Raab?

No, and neither should the family farmer. Waste of time and paper. Like I said it should have been done through consultation and I supported it with that in mind. None of the regulations were actually in the Bill IIRC and were supposed to come out this year.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by raab

No, and neither should the family farmer. Waste of time and paper. Like I said it should have been done through consultation and I supported it with that in mind. None of the regulations were actually in the Bill IIRC and were supposed to come out this year.

So...you're saying that you supported a bill that no one knew what was in it...but you "heard" bad things were happening?....gotcha....

[sakogreywolf]

Raab......of all people, you deserve the federal and provincial governments that we now have.

[coreya3212]

Originally Posted by sakogreywolf

Raab......of all people, you deserve the federal and provincial governments that we now have.

Hey now, knock it off. Raab is a conservative...cept for voting

[Jack Hardin]

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

This got me to thinking.

When Ralph Klein took over the reins from Don Getty in 1992/93 there was a 29 Billion debt, that took till 2005 to pay off. I thought there was a law created to prevent future governments from running deficits?

Which government repealed this law preventing deficit budgeting? If I'm correct why hasn't anyone been prosecuted?

BW

It was Ed Stelmach that rescinded the law preventing budgets. He was the second NDP premier in Conservative clothing. Don Getty was the first.

[raab]

I like how you guys would rather high jack the thread. Then talk about how the NDP are taking our debt servicing from 700M to 2B dollars in their term.

Also i find it funny youre attacking me for not voting conservative 1 time in my life. As all you know it wasnt because of the conservative policies. It had everything to do with the power hungry buffoon at the top named Harper who directly effected my rights and freedoms. Apparently some of you are alright voting for oppressors, and power hungry politicians that have already served more then 8 years. Im not, the CPC should have had a new leader going into the last election. Hopefully Max wins the leadership race, because the rest of the candidates are less then ideal. Ill be voting Libertarian or AIM if Max isnt leading the party.

[Scott N]

Originally Posted by raab

I like how you guys would rather high jack the thread. Then talk about how the NDP are taking our debt servicing from 700M to 2B dollars in their term.

Also i find it funny youre attacking me for not voting conservative 1 time in my life. As all you know it wasnt because of the conservative policies. It had everything to do with the power hungry buffoon at the top named Harper who directly effected my rights and freedoms. Apparently some of you are alright voting for oppressors, and power hungry politicians that have already served more then 8 years. Im not, the CPC should have had a new leader going into the last election. Hopefully Max wins the leadership race, because the rest of the candidates are less then ideal. Ill be voting Libertarian or AIM if Max isnt leading the party.

The funny part is that you think that Harper was any different than any of the other "power hungry buffoons" that have been this country's PM.

[raab]

Also wanted to say. I put this up to help show NDP voters whats going on with our budget. I hope when they see stats like how the NDP is almost tripling our debt payments in 4 years. It will help to sway their vote to someone who's a bit more financially astute.

[raab]

Originally Posted by Scott N

The funny part is that you think that Harper was any different than any of the other "power hungry buffons" that have been this country's PM.

He's not, the only difference is we change them out quicker then 10 years in. If Harper had won he would have been the longest serving PM in Canadian history. I like the Mark Twain quote regarding politicians in general "Politicians like diapers, should be changed often and for the same reason."

[bigskinner]

Originally Posted by raab

We're spending 21B a year on healthcare with the baby boomers getting older. Even if we we're to run it more efficiently, I don't see how we cut 10B out of the system while providing more care going forward.

Lets be clear I'm not talking about getting rid of the public health system. I'm talking about letting private companies or non profits come in and run their own hospitals, residences, and treatment centers. By allowing this it gives the middle class an opportunity to expedite their care options, and in turn it reduces wait times for those who can't afford medical insurance.

Also lets not get fooled thinking there isn't already two tier healthcare in Canada. There is but its only available to the rich who fly down to the States and get anything they need done. I'd like to see the middle class afforded the same benefit.

I'll give you an example of the current system vs the system I propose. Let's say you need a knee surgery. Currently your put on a waiting list and wait anywhere from 6 months to a year depending on severity. You get to suffer waiting, which I've seen lots of when I worked in the current public system. In contrast if you bought health insurance and paid lets say 50 bucks a month. That surgery would be covered and you would get it done in less then two weeks. No suffering, your care was faster, and it let someone who couldn't afford health insurance get seen quicker. This is how you not only improve the public system but also care across the board. Worth mentioning that Canada is the only OECD country without two tier healthcare.

The same principle should be applied to schooling. Currently our class room sizes are out of control. We need more private investment to bring down not only the costs, but also the classroom sizes. I'd like to see classroom sizes under 20 per class. How can the public system do that, with the way its currently being run? We need to change how we fund kids by increasing the funding to each student and decreasing the amount we give to school boards. In turn where ever that student goes receives the students funding amount 100%. I believe we would see several schools pop up, and think this would be the ideal way to fix the problem.

Don't blame us seniors/baby boomers , blame Trudeaus open arms welcoming all refugees over here , free money , freee health care , that's the problem.

[79ford]

Alberta uses royalties to pay for 25-33% of the provincial budget which is why our taxes were low.

Alberta is essentially a less socialist version of venezuela..... a moderate to heavy petrostate vs full on petro-state

Now that oil prices are low and natural gas prices are low Alberta is about 7-10 billion poorer every year in less royalties collected which pretty much lines up with the deficits we now have. Nitto eh? Who would have thunk relying on oil royalties to pay for social services and tax subsidies would end up biting us in the rear?

I like the ndp move to support refining and petrochemicals etc but i cringe when a government tries to create economic stimulus from construction projects and the like.... they are creating make work projects which leave people on ei and the project will create future maintenance costs vs chemicals and refining which create value for decades and employ thousands of people at decent wages whther oil is 20$ or 80$.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by raab

It had everything to do with the power hungry buffoon at the top named Harper who directly effected my rights and freedoms. Apparently some of you are alright voting for oppressors, and power hungry politicians that have already served more then 8 years.

Can you list all of your rights and freedoms the right honourable Stephen Harper effected? I am quite curious.

[coreya3212]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

Can you list all of your rights and freedoms the right honourable Stephen Harper effected? I am quite curious.

yes, let's hear it.

[KinAlberta]

Originally Posted by 79ford

Alberta uses royalties to pay for 25-33% of the provincial budget which is why our taxes were low.

Alberta is essentially a less socialist version of venezuela..... a moderate to heavy petrostate vs full on petro-state

Now that oil prices are low and natural gas prices are low Alberta is about 7-10 billion poorer every year in less royalties collected which pretty much lines up with the deficits we now have. Nitto eh? Who would have thunk relying on oil royalties to pay for social services and tax subsidies would end up biting us in the rear?

I like the ndp move to support refining and petrochemicals etc but i cringe when a government tries to create economic stimulus from construction projects and the like.... they are creating make work projects which leave people on ei and the project will create future maintenance costs vs chemicals and refining which create value for decades and employ thousands of people at decent wages whther oil is 20$ or 80$.

First, let me say that NDP borrowing isn't a new development - the PCs did it too - at a far far higher cost. An earlier post stated that when Ralph took over, the province had $29 billion in debt. So imagine the interest rate difference between borrowing $29 billion in the 1980s vs borrowing today! Many people had fewer ideological problems when the province borrowed at well over 10% than at well under 10%. If we get inflation in the coming years people will be saying the NDP's borrowing was pure genius - until that is when/if we roll that debt. :-)

Anyway, one, I like that you point out that we have a socialized mineral and resource base. (In another thread I suggested that the Province could privatize all its resources.) And that relying on a depleting resource, a commodity that suffers boom and bust pricing, didn't make a whole lot of sense.

We need an alternative method for raising government revenues to pay for services that have nothing to do with resource prices and may even go up when oil prices go down.

Two, I agree that we should all cringe at make-work projects. However, they do do something in terms of building or maintaining infrastructure or whatever. And they give people a salary and training that they can use in future jobs. I too though wish the make work projects were focused on net positive benefit projects that will create long term returns for the province - and not on things that just embed further future expenditures with little return.

Shale gas and then oil was a game changer and people just haven't adjusted to the new reality that we won a lottery and spent most of the proceeds. Worse, we attracted a lot of new Albertans to share in the winnings - and now we're all in the same boat - sharing far, far less amongst far, far more people.

However, the theory is that more people will create growth. Obviously it does in building them homes and schools and roads, etc. but I guess we are now counting on all those new people to either make us much more efficient or to create new export-driven enterprises to replace all the money that oil used to attract to the province.

I believe the game has changed to the tune of losing what maybe $30-40 billion in capital infusions, (was something like $50 billion in 2015) and to replace the oil revenue (?$ that stayed in Alberta) and its share that was royalties (down what ? another $8-10 billion) and all the other ancillary development expenditures.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

Can you list all of your rights and freedoms the right honourable Stephen Harper effected? I am quite curious.

No kidding, unless of course a person was an immigrant and was facing having their citizenship revoked for being convicted of a terrorist act.

[raab]

Originally Posted by 79ford

Alberta uses royalties to pay for 25-33% of the provincial budget which is why our taxes were low.

Alberta is essentially a less socialist version of venezuela..... a moderate to heavy petrostate vs full on petro-state

Now that oil prices are low and natural gas prices are low Alberta is about 7-10 billion poorer every year in less royalties collected which pretty much lines up with the deficits we now have. Nitto eh? Who would have thunk relying on oil royalties to pay for social services and tax subsidies would end up biting us in the rear?

I like the ndp move to support refining and petrochemicals etc but i cringe when a government tries to create economic stimulus from construction projects and the like.... they are creating make work projects which leave people on ei and the project will create future maintenance costs vs chemicals and refining which create value for decades and employ thousands of people at decent wages whther oil is 20$ or 80$.

Well according to our current budget resource royalties only pay for about 2B of a 40B dollar operating budget. We pay 20B in taxes and have a 10B dollar deficit this year. In order to balance the budget right now we'd have to have a 50% increase in provincial taxes. Let that sink in...

The NDP are almost tripling our debt from 722M to 2B(projected) in their term. So 10% of every tax dollar you pay will be going to bankers. If you're alright with that, good for you. I'm not and want to see a prosperous province for myself and my children.

[raab]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

Can you list all of your rights and freedoms the right honourable Stephen Harper effected? I am quite curious.

Freedom of Association. Section 2(d) of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Worth mentioning he violated this freedom multiple times while in office.

[From The Hip]

Originally Posted by raab

Freedom of Association. Section 2(d) of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Worth mentioning he violated this freedom multiple times while in office.

Specifics please in how that directly affected YOU.

As for your falacy that Harper had power for 10 years it is laughable at best.For the first 2 terms Harper was PM he had a minority government.During that time Paul Martin resigned as Liberal leader after losing a minority government to Harper which then lead to that WIMP Stephan Dion winning the leadership race and taking the helm of the Liberal party as the opposition whilst the NDP under Layton increased their seats in the house of commons and made Layton feel like he was a "king maker" that could somehow dictate policy to a minority PC government.....when that did not work out Dion/Layton/Duceppe tried to form a filthy Socialist coalition and try to hijack the government from the CPC under Harper.Dion got punted as Liberal leader and was replaced by Ignatieff.Cue the next election and Ignatieff got ignored in Quebec and had the Liberal/Bloc seats usurped by Layton under one of the slickest campaignes ever run in Canadian politics but Harper got a Majority.

And for all of the scare tactics by the leftist media the Canadian populace did NOT get over run with extreme right wing bible thumping legislation from a Harper majority government.No abortion laws were enacted and there was no crackdown on same sex marriages etc etc and on and on so proclaimed by the media about Harper's "secret mandate"

Now after the last election which the media co-opted and spoon fed Canadians all the touchy feely warm and fuzzy BS about Trudeau whilst at the same time demonizing Harper at every chance we have an out of touch dilletante running the country who I might add has never done a hard days work in his life.He takes good selfies though and he has nice hair.

FTH

[raab]

Originally Posted by From The Hip

Specifics please in how that directly affected YOU.

As for your falacy that Harper had power for 10 years it is laughable at best.For the first 2 terms Harper was PM he had a minority government.During that time Paul Martin resigned as Liberal leader after losing a minority government to Harper which then lead to that WIMP Stephan Dion winning the leadership race and taking the helm of the Liberal party as the opposition whilst the NDP under Layton increased their seats in the house of commons and made Layton feel like he was a "king maker" that could somehow dictate policy to a minority PC government.....when that did not work out Dion/Layton/Duceppe tried to form a filthy Socialist coalition and try to hijack the government from the CPC under Harper.Dion got punted as Liberal leader and was replaced by Ignatieff.Cue the next election and Ignatieff got ignored in Quebec and had the Liberal/Bloc seats usurped by Layton under one of the slickest campaignes ever run in Canadian politics but Harper got a Majority.

And for all of the scare tactics by the leftist media the Canadian populace did NOT get over run with extreme right wing bible thumping legislation from a Harper majority government.No abortion laws were enacted and there was no crackdown on same sex marriages etc etc and on and on so proclaimed by the media about Harper's "secret mandate"

Now after the last election which the media co-opted and spoon fed Canadians all the touchy feely warm and fuzzy BS about Trudeau whilst at the same time demonizing Harper at every chance we have an out of touch dilletante running the country who I might add has never done a hard days work in his life.He takes good selfies though and he has nice hair.

FTH

I won't get into specifics, but will just put up a few interesting articles about good ol' Harper.

https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2015/07/1...Union-Workers/

http://www.montrealgazette.com/busin...749/story.html

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa...rkers-1.638399

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1205177/

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/02/15...workers-strike

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle4223709/

Put that in contrast with Trudeau's Liberals

http://www.nationalobserver.com/2016...rk-legislation

Notice how there was NOT a Canada Post strike or lock out under Trudeau. Weird what happens when the government doesn't get involved.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by raab

Freedom of Association. Section 2(d) of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Worth mentioning he violated this freedom multiple times while in office.

So nothing then? He did not remove any freedoms.

He told you that he would not be held hostage by your union is an infringement on your rights? I think you better actually learn what your rights and Mr. Harper's rights are/were. If it was so tough being employed by Mr. Harper, why did you not seek employment elsewhere? Why not work in a private sector and tell your boss what you were telling the right honourable Mr. Harper? Is it tough to swallow the fact, that the tail doesn't wag the dog?

Foreign workers interfered with your rights? If anything they allowed our society to function at a time when too many people especially within Alberta were too good for many jobs. Abuses within a system are not the fault of Mr. Harper.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by raab

Notice how there was NOT a Canada Post strike or lock out under Trudeau. Weird what happens when the government doesn't get involved.

Was there under Harper?

[bigskinner]

Originally Posted by Sooner

It's like they know they may only have one shot and are going for it. Scary to hear how much we owe right now and they keep on pumping more out there.

Don't worry , any deht acquired to help Albertans is a good thing , its all covered by Govt assets , it don't work like a househole budjet , completely different, they borrow from themselves.

[bigskinner]

Originally Posted by rugatika

Man I miss Ralph.

Ralph is the one that made the mess , just told you a bunch of lies like all Torys do.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by bigskinner

Don't worry , any deht acquired to help Albertans is a good thing , its all covered by Govt assets , it don't work like a househole budjet , completely different, they borrow from themselves.

Any debt is bad debt. No they don't borrow from themselves, that's why they have debt service to make interest payments.

What government assets? Most any new government asset you refer to is P3 funded. Which means they are renting it from a private institution that built the "asset". These companies also dictate that they receive lucrative maintenance contracts too. Then after 30 years when that asset is basically worthless and needing to be rebuilt it becomes the property of the Alberta government. Brilliant strategy. So after 30 years of payments they only own a worn out piece of junk that will require more many to overhaul the asset than what was initially invested I would wager.

[halang_99]

Seems like sooner or later everything crashes and burns.We will pickup and rebuild-looks like wildrose is the poor sucker who gets stuck with that

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by halang_99

Seems like sooner or later everything crashes and burns.We will pickup and rebuild-looks like wildrose is the poor sucker who gets stuck with that

Hard to tell. The last poll I saw, it was a three way split.