Home Schooling?

[sjemac]

Originally Posted by rugatika

Fair enough, we'll just have to agree that you're wrong.



At any rate, as I said, lots of examples of successful people being homeschooled, and it's not the road to ruin as so many like to paint it.

Not many since the schools had electricity though according to your list.


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[Trochu]

Originally Posted by sjemac

Biographers can differ:

https://millercenter.org/president/r...the-presidency

"As a young boy, Roosevelt was tutored at home by private teachers. "

Isn't that still home schooled? Or is there a difference between "home schooling" and "schooling at home"?

[sjemac]

Originally Posted by Trochu

Isn't that still home schooled? Or is there a difference between "home schooling" and "schooling at home"?

Most people talking about home schooling are talking about doing it themselves or online. When money is no object and you can bring in pros to one on one with your kids you're really not home schooling you're just paying for a school to come to you.

So if your definition of homeschooling is that of bringing in professionally trained teachers to have one on one instruction with your child then obviously homeschooling will nearly always work in those circumstances.

But anyone trying to make a comparison that the private tutors of the privileged elite are somehow comparable to the intent of the OP is being disingenuous.


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[YoteStopper]

Originally Posted by Newview01

The countless success stories of homeschooling prove you wrong.

The countless failures produced by the public system also prove you wrong.

X2.

I was homeschooled and consider myself better educated vs public/private school.

[YoteStopper]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

If you want your children to be university graduates send them to schools with professional teachers, if you want to raise hamburger flippers experiment with home schooling.

Good grief. Have you looked at the homeschooling statistics? Not saying that the public/private school system cannot result in a well educated adult but it has a lot to do with the individual as well. I'm a homeschool graduate and a red seal journeyman in my trade, must have missed the local fast food joint.

[riden]

Originally Posted by YoteStopper

Good grief. Have you looked at the homeschooling statistics? Not saying that the public/private school system cannot result in a well educated adult but it has a lot to do with the individual as well. I'm a homeschool graduate and a red seal journeyman in my trade, must have missed the local fast food joint.

Are you sure there are Alberta statistics? How can there be statistics if participating is optional to parents?

There are lots of great parents doing great things with their homeschooled kids, and there are lots dropping the ball too. I think you would be really surprised how low the graduation rate is. But again, I don't think solid stats exist to "prove" anything. Which is part of the problem.

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by riden

Are you sure there are Alberta statistics? How can there be statistics if participating is optional to parents?

There are lots of great parents doing great things with their homeschooled kids, and there are lots dropping the ball too. I think you would be really surprised how low the graduation rate is. But again, I don't think solid stats exist to "prove" anything. Which is part of the problem.

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/site...-2015-rev2.pdf

Early studies on the academic effects of home schooling, including empirical
research by Ray (1990, 1994, 1997, 2010), Rudner (1999), and Van Pelt (2003), consistently found higher percentile scores for home-educated students in the United States and Canada than for public-school students on standardized tests in reading, writing, and mathematics. The most recent study to compare the achievement of home-schooled students against national norms is Ray’s US nationwide study (2010) where he found national percentile mean scores for home-schooled students were 89 in reading (n = 11,586), 84 in language (n = 11,388), and 84 in math (n = 11,587), while the national percentile mean was 50 for all students nationwide in all subject areas.

Lots of studies show that homeschooled kids consistently score better in reading, math, and writing. But then people that are homeschooled usually have more intelligent parents, so they may be genetically and environmentally more likely to score higher regardless. A parent(s) with an IQ of 90 is highly unlikely to take on the task of educating their children themselves. Of course, the fact that more intelligent people tend to choose homeschooling says something as well.

[riden]

I said Alberta stats.

We give parents autonomy here and there is very little accountability. Some provinces require home schoolers to work under a public schools supervision and make parents accountable for what they teach. We don't here. The result being, there really aren't accurate Alberta stats, since participation is voluntary.

Like I said, the graduation rate in Alberta is very low. But those parents aren't vocal, so we don't see it. We only see the success stories of the vocal
Parents.

[WillyOneStyle]

Originally Posted by YoteStopper

Good grief. Have you looked at the homeschooling statistics? Not saying that the public/private school system cannot result in a well educated adult but it has a lot to do with the individual as well. I'm a homeschool graduate and a red seal journeyman in my trade, must have missed the local fast food joint.

I am a high school graduate and a Red Seal Journeyman in my trade. I eat fast food occasionally

My little guy is going on 2 and the wife and I will have to think of how we are going to educate him in the years to come. This has been a marginally informative thread, but I'm glad I read it.

Does anyone know the provincial statistics on number of students home schooled vs schooled traditionally?

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by riden

....there really aren't accurate Alberta stats.....

......the graduation rate in Alberta is very low........

[riden]

Feel free to prove me wrong.

Alberta now has lots of Learning Stores and outreach programs to make homeschooling easy for parents. When you talk to the people working at these programs, the results arent as good as the public perception.

[JonBoy]

My daughter attended a top-3 private school in Texas, in kindergarten and grade 1. We noticed that we were still doing a fair bit of work with her at home so my wife suggested we homeschool her instead. That saved us a bunch of money and gave her a lot more free time. She was top of her class at that school.

She was homeschooled for a few more years, then switched to a public Spanish immersion school in Edmonton for two years. She was top of her class again and had already learned a lot of what they were teaching. After seeing that the school curriculum barely advanced her in the second year (she was "redoing" work she'd already learned the first year), we once again started homeschooling her.

She's homeschooled until late this year, when we moved to BC and put her in another private school. She's again jumped to the front of her class but the curriculum is stronger/more challenging than what we saw in Alberta. She'll probably stay there until she graduates as it's a good blend of class work and outside trips and events. She has good friends there as well.

My son was homeschooled all his life (first three years of school are done) and he also is going to this private school. He's doing well with no real issues - he's having to catch up in certain areas because his curriculum did some things in a different order - and is fitting in seamlessly overall. He joined with only a few months left in the year so we'll have a better idea of how well he's doing next year, when he starts "on par" with everyone else.

My wife has no formal education, aside from graduating from high school. I have a Bachelor of Engineering. My daughter has seen no ill effects from homeschooling and always is at the top of her class, regardless of how long she's been homeschooled. The benefits of the homeschooling are that she's been able to do outside activities (horse riding, music lessons, art classes, etc) when most kids can't (because they're in a public school). Also, her schooling generally took less than 3 hours a day, rather than the 6 or 7 spent in a public school. That's a LOT of free time to learn how to cook, clean, draw, paint, ride a horse (Western and English), play sports, go skiing when the hills are quiet, do trips elsewhere without "missing work" (they do 4-6 weeks in January/February, in California, usually), etc. I would argue it's a far better blend of activity and school than you'll ever get in a public school.

My wife is very diligent and has spent days, even weeks, researching each curriculum and mapping out each school year. It's a lot of work but it's not THAT difficult - it just takes time. The Alberta homeschool support system is quite good as well. My wife has focused on developing the strengths of our kids while also putting them into new areas that will challenge them and force them to improve in other areas. That blend is key to success!

Bottom line: homeschool can work just fine. It can also be a gong show. It depends on the kids, on the parents and the level of commitment you have. It's big strength is FLEXIBILITY due to less time required for the kids to do their work (you can move at their pace, rather than at the class pace) and more freedom to do "non-traditional" things any time. What you (potentially) lose is the high-dollar equipment and opportunity that some public schools have, primarily as you get into the higher grades. School sports are also not available, if that matters, though most people have their kids on non-school teams if they're truly interested in playing something. The beauty of homeschool is that you don't have things crammed down your kids' throats if you don't want them to see/hear/learn certain things.

My cousins were homeschooled. Two of them were nominated for Entrepreneur of the Year last year. My nieces and nephews are homeschooled and are phenomenal kids with great social skills and strong academics. My own kids are very, very good academically while also good socially. I've met some "weird" homeschoolers and, quite frankly, they'd be "weird" regardless of where they went (it's a family thing). I've also met public school attendees that were equally weird. School doesn't make you something you aren't, regardless of whether it's at home or in public.

[JonBoy]

Originally Posted by riden

I said Alberta stats.

We give parents autonomy here and there is very little accountability. Some provinces require home schoolers to work under a public schools supervision and make parents accountable for what they teach. We don't here. The result being, there really aren't accurate Alberta stats, since participation is voluntary.

I don't know about your experience but we had to meet with a facilitator regularly, submit work continuously to show representative work, take tests to show competence and show conformance to general guidelines. If we took an aligned program, we had to supply even more information to ensure we were meeting their requirements.

Like I said, the graduation rate in Alberta is very low. But those parents aren't vocal, so we don't see it. We only see the success stories of the vocal parents.

So you know this how? You're tracking the stats? You know three people that didn't graduate?

You're making stuff up without any basis for it except personal experience. Unless you know all the homeschoolers in Alberta, you're not going to know any more than I do. You already stated the data doesn't exist so how can you make a declarative statement of ANY sort about homeschooler graduation rates?

[Rancid Crabtree]

Originally Posted by WillyOneStyle

I am a high school graduate and a Red Seal Journeyman in my trade. I eat fast food occasionally

My little guy is going on 2 and the wife and I will have to think of how we are going to educate him in the years to come. This has been a marginally informative thread, but I'm glad I read it.

Does anyone know the provincial statistics on number of students home schooled vs schooled traditionally?

Nationally I believe the rate of home schooling is about 4% I'm not sure about Alberta.
In early April there will be a home schooling convention in Red Deer.
I'd encourage anyone interested in the topic to attend. You'll see over 1000 in attendance and they will have sessions for those considering home schooling.

You'd have good info to decide from there.

[riden]

I make nothing up.

The truth is you don't have to provide the accountability you're choosing to. You can refuse as well.

The end game for a lot of home schoolers is gr 9. But as soon as you say that parents get offended, so nobody does. Doesn't change the fact it's true


Good luck with your kids

[JonBoy]

Originally Posted by riden

I make nothing up.

The truth is you don't have to provide the accountability you're choosing to. You can refuse as well.

The end game for a lot of home schoolers is gr 9. But as soon as you say that parents get offended, so nobody does. Doesn't change the fact it's true

Good luck with your kids

All I can say is, you must be living in a different world than I am.

NONE of what you say actually corresponds to my experience or the other parents I know that homeschool, in regards to accountability and/or the end goal. Maybe you're out in the sticks or something, where the kids are working and schooling at the same time, but the general attitude you're describing is one I'd generally associate with poorly-educated parents and/or those focused on home/family businesses where education is (considered) less critical.

In the end, you don't have data. You have personal experience (which is valid) and conjecture (which isn't), neither of which are all-encompassing or Alberta-wide.

[The Flint&Fly Guy]

Originally Posted by riden

I said Alberta stats.

We give parents autonomy here and there is very little accountability. Some provinces require home schoolers to work under a public schools supervision and make parents accountable for what they teach. We don't here. The result being, there really aren't accurate Alberta stats, since participation is voluntary.

Like I said, the graduation rate in Alberta is very low. But those parents aren't vocal, so we don't see it. We only see the success stories of the vocal
Parents.

Actually there is an accountability program for homeschoolers in Alberta, and its not optional.

[JonBoy]

Originally Posted by The Flint&Fly Guy

Actually there is an accountability program for homeschoolers in Alberta, and its not optional.

Yes, exactly.

http://www.qp.alberta.ca/1266.cfm?pa...=9780779787678

I quote:

Home education program
3(1) A parent who intends to provide a home education program
must develop the program.
(2) A home education program must enable a student to achieve
outcomes that are appropriate to that program.
(3) Each year a parent who intends to provide a home education
program must select activities to be focused on in the year that will
enable the student to achieve the ultimate goal set out in subsection
(2).
(4) A home education program may follow the Alberta Programs
of Study.
(5) Where a home education program does not follow the Alberta
Programs of Study,
(a) the parent providing the program must certify, using the
form set by the Minister, that the activities selected by the
parent for the year under subsection (3) will enable the
student to achieve the ultimate goal set out in subsection
(2), and
(b) the associate board or associate private school that will
supervise the program must accept the program, including
the selection of activities, in writing.
(6) A parent referred to in subsection (5) must provide to the
associate board or associate private school a written description of
the program which must include
(a) a list of the activities selected by the parent under
subsection (3) and an explanation as to how those
activities will enable the student to achieve the ultimate
goal set out in subsection (2),
(b) the instructional methods and resources to be used,
(c) the means of conducting evaluations of the student’s
progress, and

Section 4 AR 145/2006 HOME EDUCATION REGULATION
4
(d) the name of the person instructing the home education
program, if not the parent.

Evaluation of student progress
4(1) A parent providing a home education program to a student
(a) must, at regular intervals, conduct an evaluation of the
progress of the student
(i) by maintaining dated samples of student work and a
general record of the student’s activities, and
(ii) by maintaining a record of the methods and dates of
those evaluations,
(b) must be available for a regular review of the student’s
achievement with the associate board or associate private
school at a time and place mutually agreeable to the
parent and the associate board or associate private school,
and
(c) must ensure that the student is available in order that the
associate board or associate private school may conduct
an evaluation of the progress of the student
(i) at a time and place mutually agreeable to the parent
and the associate board or associate private school,
and
(ii) in the presence of the parent, if the parent chooses to
be present.
(2) An associate board or associate private school supervising a
home education program

Section 5 AR 145/2006 HOME EDUCATION REGULATION
5
(a) must ensure that a student at a level equivalent to grade 3,
6 or 9 is given the opportunity to write the grade 3, 6 or 9
provincial achievement test, as the case may be,
(i) at the time designated by the Minister, and
(ii) under the supervision of the associate board or
associate private school,
(b) must arrange for teachers employed by the associate board
or associate private school to conduct at least 2
evaluations of the progress of the student in each school
year,
(c) must record in the records maintained under section 5(e)
the results of the tests, if written, referred to in clause (a)
of this subsection and of the evaluations referred to in
subsection (1)(c),
(d) must advise the student’s parent as to the progress of the
student, and
(e) must make recommendations to the student’s parent on
any matter that may assist the student in attaining a higher
level of achievement, where necessary.

There are a lot of MUSTs in that document. It isn't optional.

[ESOXangler]

Like I've already said your kids losing out on social aspects. The diversity alone offered in a public school is worth it. You want them to be stronger in certain subjects giver. They're missing out on dodge ball, dealing with bullies, stupid kid crushes, trying other people's lunches, meeting exceptional people ie disabilities, learning the decision making process without their mommy hanging over their shoulder, library with friends, note passing, and etc. I loved public school, it's helped me so much, even the crappy teachers who told me I'd not amount to much. Mrs. Lofts who 25 years ago taught me the importance of not having to be right, even when you are. That's a great one for dealing with management.

I really, truly question the social skills of public vs mommy taught. Your kid might seem fine to you but he team might think he's a dink.

[sjemac]

Originally Posted by JonBoy

Yes, exactly.



http://www.qp.alberta.ca/1266.cfm?pa...=9780779787678



I quote:











There are a lot of MUSTs in that document. It isn't optional.

None of which are enforced. We have literally thousands of kids in this province who are not in any school system whatsoever because the province doesn't actually track them. There is no accountability of parents to make sure that their children are actually doing school.

Many hundreds of children are not even listed as being in any school and many hundreds more are simply enrolled as a convenience to keep social services off of parents backs.

Homeschooling does have a place. Probably about 5% of students would actually benefit from it if -- and only if --it is done properly.

I have seen a few successes. I've seen hundreds of more cringeable failures.


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[raab]

Originally Posted by riden

I said Alberta stats.

We give parents autonomy here and there is very little accountability. Some provinces require home schoolers to work under a public schools supervision and make parents accountable for what they teach. We don't here. The result being, there really aren't accurate Alberta stats, since participation is voluntary.

Like I said, the graduation rate in Alberta is very low. But those parents aren't vocal, so we don't see it. We only see the success stories of the vocal
Parents.

Swing and a miss. If you want funding for homeschooling you have to be part of a homeschool board. The board ensures the student is being taught properly.

[raab]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

Like I've already said your kids losing out on social aspects. The diversity alone offered in a public school is worth it. You want them to be stronger in certain subjects giver. They're missing out on dodge ball, dealing with bullies, stupid kid crushes, trying other people's lunches, meeting exceptional people ie disabilities, learning the decision making process without their mommy hanging over their shoulder, library with friends, note passing, and etc. I loved public school, it's helped me so much, even the crappy teachers who told me I'd not amount to much. Mrs. Lofts who 25 years ago taught me the importance of not having to be right, even when you are. That's a great one for dealing with management.

I really, truly question the social skills of public vs mommy taught. Your kid might seem fine to you but he team might think he's a dink.

Your kid can still be socialized. Just have to get them into other activities and around other kids.

[rem338win]

Originally Posted by riden

Are you sure there are Alberta statistics? How can there be statistics if participating is optional to parents?

There are lots of great parents doing great things with their homeschooled kids, and there are lots dropping the ball too. I think you would be really surprised how low the graduation rate is. But again, I don't think solid stats exist to "prove" anything. Which is part of the problem.

Originally Posted by riden

I said Alberta stats.

We give parents autonomy here and there is very little accountability. Some provinces require home schoolers to work under a public schools supervision and make parents accountable for what they teach. We don't here. The result being, there really aren't accurate Alberta stats, since participation is voluntary.

Like I said, the graduation rate in Alberta is very low. But those parents aren't vocal, so we don't see it. We only see the success stories of the vocal
Parents.

Originally Posted by riden

Feel free to prove me wrong.

Alberta now has lots of Learning Stores and outreach programs to make homeschooling easy for parents. When you talk to the people working at these programs, the results arent as good as the public perception.

Originally Posted by riden

I make nothing up.

The truth is you don't have to provide the accountability you're choosing to. You can refuse as well.

The end game for a lot of home schoolers is gr 9. But as soon as you say that parents get offended, so nobody does. Doesn't change the fact it's true


Good luck with your kids

You can freely prove what you're saying as well. I know no one that has this lack of accountability you speak of. There sure is that lack in the system. Many boards right now have a sub grade 6 reading comprehension level at graduation. That's success.

And I don't know of them that end it at grade 9? Where do you get this stuff?

What propaganda syphon have you gained all this from?

[The Flint&Fly Guy]

No, there is some truth to what he says. I know of a lot of people, albeit "private schools" not "homeschoolers", that are not registered anywhere for their schooling. But in my mind basing arguments about homeschooling on them is very similar to when anti hunters make arguments against us based on the actions of poachers. I get what he's saying but I think they are a separate group not to be confused with legitimate homeschoolers.

[rem338win]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

Like I've already said your kids losing out on social aspects. The diversity alone offered in a public school is worth it. You want them to be stronger in certain subjects giver. They're missing out on dodge ball, dealing with bullies, stupid kid crushes, trying other people's lunches, meeting exceptional people ie disabilities, learning the decision making process without their mommy hanging over their shoulder, library with friends, note passing, and etc. I loved public school, it's helped me so much, even the crappy teachers who told me I'd not amount to much. Mrs. Lofts who 25 years ago taught me the importance of not having to be right, even when you are. That's a great one for dealing with management.

I really, truly question the social skills of public vs mommy taught. Your kid might seem fine to you but he team might think he's a dink.

You're right buddy. If you think that your kid would miss out on all of this if you home schooled them you shouldn't. My kids aren't missing out because we make the effort and it really isn't that hard.

You can question all you want but institutionalization isn't socialization. You're projecting an ignorant position on a group of people without having done any research or experience.

And for what it's worth, bad parents are bad parents. Schooling doesn't fix that and the kids are a result of it. The dink on the team has nothing to do with where they get educated.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

Like I've already said your kids losing out on social aspects. The diversity alone offered in a public school is worth it. You want them to be stronger in certain subjects giver. They're missing out on dodge ball, dealing with bullies, stupid kid crushes, trying other people's lunches, meeting exceptional people ie disabilities, learning the decision making process without their mommy hanging over their shoulder, library with friends, note passing, and etc. I loved public school, it's helped me so much, even the crappy teachers who told me I'd not amount to much. Mrs. Lofts who 25 years ago taught me the importance of not having to be right, even when you are. That's a great one for dealing with management.

I really, truly question the social skills of public vs mommy taught. Your kid might seem fine to you but he team might think he's a dink.

Ahh so the public system was great for you. Does that make it great for everyone?

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Ahh so the public system was great for you. Does that make it great for everyone?

Life's what you make of it. That's what public school teaches. This is my opinion and always will be. You want to home school, fill your boots, but if it was up to me It'd be one system for all. No catholic, Muslim, wealthy private or even Ukrainian. Just one big melting pot that'll teach the necessities of youth.

My opinion is once you start catering to different groups you start siloing people. This will led to conflicts and bigotry. That's human nature. You want to be different, raise you kids different, well there's still plenty of time for that.

And this isn't a position of ignorance. I've experience and saw both sides of the coin. So don't call my opinions ignorant just because they're different. Or is that a product of siloing that's happening there? I'm different so I must be wrong?

[rem338win]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

Life's what you make of it. That's what public school teaches. This is my opinion and always will be. You want to home school, fill your boots, but if it was up to me It'd be one system for all. No catholic, Muslim, wealthy private or even Ukrainian. Just one big melting pot that'll teach the necessities of youth.

My opinion is once you start catering to different groups you start siloing people. This will led to conflicts and bigotry. That's human nature. You want to be different, raise you kids different, well there's still plenty of time for that.

And this isn't a position of ignorance. I've experience and saw both sides of the coin. So don't call my opinions ignorant just because they're different. Or is that a product of siloing that's happening there? I'm different so I must be wrong?

Oh my. You want everyone pushed through a single system and accuse others of siloing? And you advocate a dictatorship on education and subjugate parental rights to whom then?

The issue is your against everything different based on your definition. You want a homogenous product and refuse to except that as ignorant?

What are the necessities of youth? Who is defining that?

A person making these comments isn't someone who has experience on both sides and your expression supports that.

The public system does teach that there is only one way to make it. And many children are repressed or abandoned because of it.

A mild example: Child suicide and attempt rates are climbing even with all of the "education" they are giving them on it. Who is to blame for that? Well to start we may want to look at the system they participate in for at least 40hrs a week. It's too bad all of the socialization they receive there isn't helping either. I say that because the number one reason articulated is a lack of belonging and identity.

Weird coming from a system that claims to support diversity and works hard to develop homogeny.

[sjemac]

I'll back riden on the grade 9 experience. Just over half the homeschooling families in our area quit around grade 9 and then at least partially take advantage of the public system A lot of those do so because math has gotten too hard (or they haven't actually done any in the last 6 years). Several families have been forced to send their kids to public schools after it was discovered that they were doing their kids' work for them all those years (thankfully we have Diploma exams to keep them somewhat honest).

I remember one girl in particular whose parents would drop her off at the school 2 minutes before her math class and would be there again two minutes before it ended so that she could dash to the door and gain safety from the possibility of an unauthorized thought or idea.

Homeschooling truly works for a very small number of students and parents. It is not the panacea many think it is. More to the point, in Alberta, it has become an easily utilized refuge for bad and abusive parents to hide their children from any kind of socieatal scrutiny.

[TBD]

Problem is ... as the quality of our education system erodes and educators attempt to expand their mandate to mask the problem - a growing number of parents have lost trust in the systems ability to give their kids the basis of knowledge they'll need to survive in this world.

It's these types of dedicated hardworking folks that are taking upon themselves to get the job done.

As we are seeing today, parents (Albertan's - Canadians - North Americans) are witnessing the destruction of their education system that in decades past had us the envy of the world.

TBD

PS ... me I don't blame them, better a kid knows the value of a hard days work and the comfort of a buck in his jeans ... then some liberal educrats take on the salient dtls of sex education, with (of course) the inclusion of the latest material in gay / transgender methods