CZ 550 American Incident

[bobinthesky]

Originally Posted by densa44

This is a very disturbing thread BTW. Here is the question; Is there a design that lets the hunter unload his gun with the safety on (I see from this post that is not much of a guarantee) ? If yes why aren't they all like that?

Winchester M-70's can be placed in the half position and unloaded with the striker blocked, there's no way the rifle can go off. That reason among others is why I've hunted with an M-70 more than any other make for 45 years.

[Homesteader]

I think somebody should have been hugged more as a kid

Thanks to the OP for pointing out what could have been a serious incident. It is a reminder to all of rule #1 never point your barrel at something you're not prepared to lose.

As for hunting, I often carry my rifle loaded with safety on, but I also often hunt with my rifle loaded. and the safety off. If people don't want to hunt with me, because they don't feel safe, then they shouldn't.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by densa44

This is a very disturbing thread BTW. Here is the question; Is there a design that lets the hunter unload his gun with the safety on (I see from this post that is not much of a guarantee) ? If yes why aren't they all like that?

Sako

The special two-way Sako safety locks both the trigger and the bolt handle. The unique bolt release button of the Sako Safety System allows you to load or remove a cartridge from the chamber while the safety is engaged.

[First Time caller]

The idea of holding the trigger and closing the bolt on a chambered round to me is ridiculous; lets introduce another high risk factor, I think not. Please stop recommending this practice.

As for walking around with a round in the pipe; I was posted as mentioned, that means "standing there", I never said I was afield. I'm not sure if you know this but when deer are pushed they are likely running. Having to cycle a bolt as deer run by pretty much eliminates the purpose of posting as quick shots are required. At my mature age, I am confident I can hold a rifle and I am very aware of muzzle control. My dad is dead, and has been for a long time, he never passed on Grandpappy's bad habits.

But I am glad you and I are equals, knowing that the exact same thing has happened to you with your Sako. However with your incident, you imply trigger screws were the issue and after learning your lesson everything is great and you now free knowledge bomb people with very questionable advice.

Where after going through almost the exact same situation it is implied I'm am an idiot. I only wish there had been a deer in front of me, then apparently it would have been okay. Then I could have taken my rifle to see someone and determine a potential failure, to which I could blame to be more like you. You yourself are certainly not holy.

For everyone else thank you for your constructive input, with examples of basic tests. I have completed as much as suggested multiple time and have not been able to recreate the situation. I have arranged to have the gun examined. If no failure mechanism can be determined, I will discuss options at that time.

[CNP]

I will never carry a bolt rifle, uncocked, with a round in the chamber. I won't be lulled into thinking this is safer than a round chambered, with the safety on. You are closing the bolt on a round with a protruding firing pin. That is not safe. No manufacturer recommends this practice and anyone believing this is a safe practice should be warned about accidental discharge when closing the bolt and/or if the rifle is jarred. There you have it........this is a WARNING. I will carry my rifles cocked, loaded, safety on when I deem it to be the appropriate time.

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by CNP

I will never carry a bolt rifle, uncocked, with a round in the chamber. I won't be lulled into thinking this is safer than a round chambered, with the safety on. You are closing the bolt on a round with a protruding firing pin. That is not safe. No manufacturer recommends this practice and anyone believing this is a safe practice should be warned about accidental discharge when closing the bolt and/or if the rifle is jarred. There you have it........this is a WARNING. I will carry my rifles cocked, loaded, safety on when I deem it to be the appropriate time.

X2
I have had one accidental discharge. I was pulling the trigger to set the pin down on a 17HHR and it went off. Proper muzzle control caused this situation to be a non issue.

[gitrdun]

Just a heads up. The OP was actually simply asking what ails his trigger/safety mechanism and where/how he could resolve it. Nowhere did I see that he was asking for a firearm safety seminar.

[Bushleague]

Originally Posted by amosfella

There's one that I would do first. The safety when it's on is supposed to move the pin back a very small amount so that if the trigger is moves, it will reset into the seer properly. I'd take a dial indicator and magnetic base and see if the pin is moving back to allow for that.

Then I'd take the gun out of the stock.

This... I've had a Parker Hale and a Lee Enfield that would both do what the OP described, the firing pin would relax a small amount when the trigger was pulled with the safety on, then when the safety was released the pin would fire as the trigger had already been tripped. Examining the triggers showed nothing on either rifle as it had to do with how the various components lined up as an assembly.... the tests that have been suggested are a better indication in this case, if that turns up nothing then disassemble.

Cock rifle, engage safety, pull trigger, then release safety... see what happens. The dial indicator idea is a good idea too if the problem is intermittent it could be just barely lifting the bolt off the trigger, or not at all.

[bsmitty27]

On CZ web site their is a detailed explanation of how to set the trigger and set trigger weights. My bet would be the trigger is set too light. Check it out and if not comfortable take it to a smith.
Brad

[Bushleague]

Originally Posted by bobinthesky

Winchester M-70's can be placed in the half position and unloaded with the striker blocked, there's no way the rifle can go off. That reason among others is why I've hunted with an M-70 more than any other make for 45 years.

Both my Ruger M77, my Remington 760, and my wife's Savage will also do this. Not isolated to the M70 at all.

Personally I don't see the point, what the OP described if I understand it correctly sounds like a mechanical problem to me. No mater how good your safety is, if your gun goes off when it is disengaged without you pulling the trigger... you have a big problem.

[bobinthesky]

Originally Posted by Bushleague

Both my Ruger M77, my Remington 760, and my wife's Savage will also do this. Not isolated to the M70 at all.

Personally I don't see the point, what the OP described if I understand it correctly sounds like a mechanical problem to me. No mater how good your safety is, if your gun goes off when it is disengaged without you pulling the trigger... you have a big problem.

Please show me where I said it was isolated to the M-70? When you fail to do so then please stop imagining that I'm saying things and making derogatory comments about it.

Some bolt action safeties block the striker from falling and often actually pull the striker back off of the trigger sear slightly while engaged, Others block some part of the trigger mechanism from moving such as the some times troublesome M-700 does. Both safeties have strong and weak points but neither is infallible and accidents can happen with either if there is mechanical wear, miss-adjustment or even just from being dirty although I think the safety that blocks the striker is more dependable. With that type, the rifle can only go off when the safety is released but the other type can go off at any time if its not properly adjusted.

[fps plus]

When growing up and hunting with my grandfather he would chamber a round and release the firing pin while closing the bolt.

One day whilst thinking about the safety of doing so I tried a little experiment . I loaded a brass with a primer only and drop the firing on it while closing the bolt . So now it has the firing pin with the energy from the spring resting on the primer .next I took a nylon hammer and struck the end of the firing pin . I was amazed how little force it took to ignite the primer .

After doing this I would not recommend carrying a live round in the chamber with the firing pin resting in the primer .if one fell in this situation the energy from the fall or a branch hitting the firing pin may be enough to cause the firearm to discharge.

Always practice proper firearm safety.

[Bushleague]

Originally Posted by bobinthesky

Please show me where I said it was isolated to the M-70? When you fail to do so then please stop imagining that I'm saying things and making derogatory comments about it.

Some bolt action safeties block the striker from falling and often actually pull the striker back off of the trigger sear slightly while engaged, Others block some part of the trigger mechanism from moving such as the some times troublesome M-700 does. Both safeties have strong and weak points but neither is infallible and accidents can happen with either if there is mechanical wear, miss-adjustment or even just from being dirty although I think the safety that blocks the striker is more dependable. With that type, the rifle can only go off when the safety is released but the other type can go off at any time if its not properly adjusted.

I didn't post it to be derogatory, just in the interest of accuracy. I like the M-70 action, but the poster you responded to asked about whether some actions could be emptied so I felt compelled to state that there were many actions other than the excellent M-70 that can do this.

I too like safetys that lock the firing pin, but both rifles that gave me trouble were safetys of this type. While I have heard of it, I've never had trouble with a trigger locking safety myself.

[BigRedJeep]

To the op. Or anyone

Please never let a firing pin fall on a live round. EVER! It's just not sane. And I will be talking to you.

Either you trust your firearms safety and walk around with a chambered round, or you leave the chamber clear. No ifs ands, or buts. No matter the case, if it's pointing at me, I'm gonna have words with you...

It sounds like your trigger came out of adjustment or is set to light. Take it to a trusted professional, a nearby kind member on the forum, perhaps. if you cannot do it yourself that is.

There are no myths in firearms mechanics. They either work or they fail, catastrophically.

Best regards, Wes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[purgatory.sv]

Originally Posted by First Time caller

Just had a very scary event occur on the weekend. After one of our pushes for deer had ended (I was posted) I walked to get my truck and before getting in, I took off the safety to unloaded my rifle. As the safety came off the rifle fired into the dirt in front of me; the trigger was free of debris and fingers. As well the trigger was not in the set position at the time.

Following the event without ammo I could not recreate the situation, while posted I don't recall anything that would have contacted the rifle or trigger to cause this. This is a reminder when loading, handling and unloading to follow all safe practices. I will never casually unload a rifle again.

I now have an awesome rifle that needs to be examined, fixed, trigger replaced or retired. Can anyone recommend a gun smith? I am in Edmonton, thanks.

Ok you asked a question, I gave an answer.

Of the two I mentioned they once worked together.
As far as I know they have no animosity but the internet seems to have a history of indifference.

Both had issues but from what I could gather nether had an animosity to each other?

I only wanted to post one because I knew he would address your question. I posted both because it’s the internet.

Keep your rifle, get it serviced.

[bobinthesky]

Originally Posted by Bushleague

I didn't post it to be derogatory, just in the interest of accuracy. I like the M-70 action, but the poster you responded to asked about whether some actions could be emptied so I felt compelled to state that there were many actions other than the excellent M-70 that can do this.

I too like safetys that lock the firing pin, but both rifles that gave me trouble were safetys of this type. While I have heard of it, I've never had trouble with a trigger locking safety myself.

No worries Bushleague, it just struck me the wrong way.

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by bsmitty27

On CZ web site their is a detailed explanation of how to set the trigger and set trigger weights. My bet would be the trigger is set too light. Check it out and if not comfortable take it to a smith.
Brad

I'm with you on this one. I was setting up the the trigger on my CZ 6.5 and it did what the OP's did with to light of a trigger.

[Unregistered user]

To the OP something in your rifle is broken, worn or seriously out of adjustment, spend the money on a competent gunsmith, it's worth it.

[denied access]

Originally Posted by First Time caller

.

As for walking around with a round in the pipe; I was posted as mentioned, that means "standing there", I never said I was afield. I'm not sure if you know this but when deer are pushed they are likely running. Having to cycle a bolt as deer run by pretty much eliminates the purpose of posting as quick shots are required.
.

Really???

From your OP

"Just had a very scary event occur on the weekend. After one of our pushes for deer had ended (I was posted) I walked to get my truck and before getting in, I took off the safety to unloaded my rifle."

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by denied access

Really???

From your OP

"Just had a very scary event occur on the weekend. After one of our pushes for deer had ended (I was posted) I walked to get my truck and before getting in, I took off the safety to unloaded my rifle."

I see you have nothing to add to help the OP with his dilemma. There is nothing wrong with having one in the pipe. The firing pin spring in compression and the safety on. Get over it.

[6.5 shooter]

I have had trigger/safety issues on 2 rifles. A Sako Vixon when one of the roll pins which hold the trigger mechanism to the receiver partially worked its way out of its proper location.
Also a Winchester Ranger that if you depressed the trigger while the rifle was cocked with the safety on then released the safety the firing pin would fall...
All safeties / triggers are prone to failure due to the fact they are a mechanical device.

This is why one must always treat the rifle as loaded and use respect and proper muzzle control..AT ALL TIMES....

[sikwhiskey]

Anyone ever "set" that trigger for you? Has anyone ever played with the trigger adjustments that you know of? Usually but not always, bubba can be blamed for setting the trigger way to light. Just asking.....

[denied access]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

I see you have nothing to add to help the OP with his dilemma. There is nothing wrong with having one in the pipe. The firing pin spring in compression and the safety on. Get over it.

Your a stubborn little unsafe piece of work aint you. How many people have to post about their various safeties failing and causing misfires before you can get it through your thick head that a mechanical safety is dangerous to rely on. Its because engineering schools turn out so many know it alls such as yourself that I send our fresh PEngs to the field for 18 months to shake the **** out of their heads.

Out of the 53 threads on here there are 7 accidental misfires caused by a safety. Yep that's a great practice you got going there stud. Absolutely nothing wrong with those odds. But hey...your the one with the pinky ring, and probably the hole in your floorboards.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by denied access

Your a stubborn little unsafe piece of work aint you. How many people have to post about their various safeties failing and causing misfires before you can get it through your thick head that a mechanical safety is dangerous to rely on. Its because engineering schools turn out so many know it alls such as yourself that I send our fresh PEngs to the field for 18 months to shake the **** out of their heads.

Out of the 53 threads on here there are 7 accidental misfires caused by a safety. Yep that's a great practice you got going there stud. Absolutely nothing wrong with those odds. But hey...your the one with the pinky ring, and probably the hole in your floorboards.

I would say that if you were to call ANY firearms manufacturer and ask what is safer, hunting with a round in the chamber, or closing the bolt whilst pulling the trigger, they would say round in the chamber. The sheer amount of firearms and lack of accidental discharges due to mechanical failure proves that safeties work. In addition, no firearms manufacturer is willing to provide safeties that they know may fail, there is no second best there.

If you have a pinky ring, its not in mech. Eng.

OP why don't you call CZ? They will want to know about it regardless where you take it for repairs. They may have a simple solution for you.

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by denied access

Your a stubborn little unsafe piece of work aint you. How many people have to post about their various safeties failing and causing misfires before you can get it through your thick head that a mechanical safety is dangerous to rely on. Its because engineering schools turn out so many know it alls such as yourself that I send our fresh PEngs to the field for 18 months to shake the **** out of their heads.

Out of the 53 threads on here there are 7 accidental misfires caused by a safety. Yep that's a great practice you got going there stud. Absolutely nothing wrong with those odds. But hey...your the one with the pinky ring, and probably the hole in your floorboards.

I think having your firearm ready to go with the safety on is just fine as long as the muzzle is always pointed in a safe direction and you're no where near the trigger. Walking through the gopher field with my 10/22 would seem ridiculous to unload between targets. In a goose blind, shotguns are loaded with safeties on until he calls the shot. I cant imagine how many miles I have walked between big game and coyote hunting with a loaded rifle and the safety on. With no mishaps. This is how a firearm is designed to operate. As per the hole in my floor boards, I don't truck hunt or have a loaded firearm in my truck.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

I think having your firearm ready to go with the safety on is just fine as long as the muzzle is always pointed in a safe direction and you're no where near the trigger. Walking through the gopher field with my 10/22 would seem ridiculous to unload between targets. In a goose blind, shotguns are loaded with safeties on until he calls the shot. I cant imagine how many miles I have walked between big game and coyote hunting with a loaded rifle and the safety on. With no mishaps. This is how a firearm is designed to operate. As per the hole in my floor boards, I don't truck hunt or have a loaded firearm in my truck.

It's over - stop now!
Cat

[elkdump]

The same thing happened to me with an $2000 new Vorre Titan 300 mag,

Again fortunately by habit , the barrel was pointed in a safe direction

[Newellknik]

As someone who has not fired a long gun for thirty years ,plenty
Of shotguns , I'm sorta starting over at 70 . I bought a Ruger
American 223 and my neighbour and I , he s older , are doing
some Yotin . I've had a couple of Remington miss fires , and a
Parker hale ,oops firing back in the day Last year I used a very
Old 223 , borrowed with kind of a wonky safety , we had a long
talk about carrying loaded . He felt relying on the safety was ok
I did not . After reading this , I do not . Thanks

[CNP]

Originally Posted by Newellknik

As someone who has not fired a long gun for thirty years ,plenty
Of shotguns , I'm sorta starting over at 70 . I bought a Ruger
American 223 and my neighbour and I , he s older , are doing
some Yotin . I've had a couple of Remington miss fires , and a
Parker hale ,oops firing back in the day Last year I used a very
Old 223 , borrowed with kind of a wonky safety , we had a long
talk about carrying loaded . He felt relying on the safety was ok
I did not . After reading this , I do not . Thanks

The thing is you have an opinion and I'm good with that. Another thing or two or three is: you're not forcing your opinion on anyone else; you're not suggesting any unsafe measures and you're not belittling anyone