CZ 550 American Incident

[First Time caller]

Just had a very scary event occur on the weekend. After one of our pushes for deer had ended (I was posted) I walked to get my truck and before getting in, I took off the safety to unloaded my rifle. As the safety came off the rifle fired into the dirt in front of me; the trigger was free of debris and fingers. As well the trigger was not in the set position at the time.

Following the event without ammo I could not recreate the situation, while posted I don't recall anything that would have contacted the rifle or trigger to cause this. This is a reminder when loading, handling and unloading to follow all safe practices. I will never casually unload a rifle again.

I now have an awesome rifle that needs to be examined, fixed, trigger replaced or retired. Can anyone recommend a gun smith? I am in Edmonton, thanks.

[purgatory.sv]

http://ksarms.com/

http://www.rdhgunsmithing.com/

In no particular order, both are located in Edmonton.

[First Time caller]

Originally Posted by purgatory.sv

http://ksarms.com/

http://www.rdhgunsmithing.com/

In no particular order, both are located in Edmonton.

Thanks, was already in touch with KS Arms, they don't do repairs. Will try RDH.

[qwert]

Originally Posted by First Time caller

Just had a very scary event occur on the weekend. After one of our pushes for deer had ended (I was posted) I walked to get my truck and before getting in, I took off the safety to unloaded my rifle. As the safety came off the rifle fired into the dirt in front of me; the trigger was free of debris and fingers. As well the trigger was not in the set position at the time.

Following the event without ammo I could not recreate the situation, while posted I don't recall anything that would have contacted the rifle or trigger to cause this. This is a reminder when loading, handling and unloading to follow all safe practices. I will never casually unload a rifle again.

I now have an awesome rifle that needs to be examined, fixed, trigger replaced or retired. Can anyone recommend a gun smith? I am in Edmonton, thanks.

Similar to a 'Remington moment'.
The common test for this is to (always maintain muzzle in safe direction),
cock & close the bolt (on an empty chamber),
apply the safety,
pull the trigger, then select 'safety off.

A click from the firing pin indicates a trigger system failure,
that requires careful inspection and service by a knowledgeable gunsmith,
before returning to service or loading with live ammunition.

This test should be combined with a similar shock or bump test by striking the butt of the stock firmly against the floor, both with and without the safety applied.

Good Luck, YMMV.

[Moo Snukkle]

This is exactly the phenomenon (repeatable) I've witnessed with older Remington rifles. Dropping the safety and it engages the firing pin. Turf that trigger.

[qwert]

Originally Posted by Moo Snukkle

This is exactly the phenomenon (repeatable) I've witnessed with older Remington rifles. Dropping the safety and it engages the firing pin. Turf that trigger.

Or clean, inspect and adjust for heavier release force as required.

Good Luck, YMMV.

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by Moo Snukkle

This is exactly the phenomenon (repeatable) I've witnessed with older Remington rifles. Dropping the safety and it engages the firing pin. Turf that trigger.

He said it's a set trigger. Hardly something that you want to "turf" without a thorough investigation first.

[cody c]

try partially closing the bolt then engaging the safety, then pull trigger, then take safety off, to see if you can repeat (without ammo obviously)

or try closing bolt, safety on, pull trigger, wiggle bolt handle, then turn safety off, to see if it recreates it.

[amosfella]

Originally Posted by cody c

try partially closing the bolt then engaging the safety, then pull trigger, then take safety off, to see if you can repeat (without ammo obviously)

or try closing bolt, safety on, pull trigger, wiggle bolt handle, then turn safety off, to see if it recreates it.

You cannot partially close the bolt and apply the safety on that rifle. The safety locks the firing pin out. The safety is part of the action, and requires the bolt to be locked down position.

One can get a 3 position on bolt side swing safety like they have on the winchesters for that rifle. I haven't tried one, and I can't remember who in the US makes it. The center position still locks out the firing pin, but allows you to unload the rifle...

[gitrdun]

Nothing beats an internal inspection of the trigger mechanism and see what ails it....don't it?

Do this, Do that, pfffftttt. Take it out of the stock, and watch it go through it's steps. It's somewhat analytical, but who woulda thunk eh?

[cody c]

Originally Posted by amosfella

You cannot partially close the bolt and apply the safety on that rifle. The safety locks the firing pin out. The safety is part of the action, and requires the bolt to be locked down position.

One can get a 3 position on bolt side swing safety like they have on the winchesters for that rifle. I haven't tried one, and I can't remember who in the US makes it. The center position still locks out the firing pin, but allows you to unload the rifle...

Good to know, excuse my ignorance.

[amosfella]

Originally Posted by cody c

Good to know, excuse my ignorance.

Most rifles lock out the trigger only. It's not a hard mistake to make if you've never handled this rifle. The trigger still acts normal, and moves, however the pin will not move while the safety is on.

[amosfella]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

Nothing beats an internal inspection of the trigger mechanism and see what ails it....don't it?

Do this, Do that, pfffftttt. Take it out of the stock, and watch it go through it's steps. It's somewhat analytical, but who woulda thunk eh?

There's one that I would do first. The safety when it's on is supposed to move the pin back a very small amount so that if the trigger is moves, it will reset into the seer properly. I'd take a dial indicator and magnetic base and see if the pin is moving back to allow for that.

Then I'd take the gun out of the stock.

[denied access]

What in the name of all thats holy are you doing walking around with a round in the pipe and the rifle cocked? Either leave the shells in the mag where they belong or at the very least squeeze the trigger while closing the bolt so at minimum its not cocked.

I think this is a lesson on why you NEVER NEVER depend on the stupid safety.

[Pioneer2]

If the set trigger was activated and put back on safe it will fire often when the safety is taken off to unload.It is best to pull the trigger with the gun on safe pointed in a safe direction and it will click cancelling the set feature.Plan "B" get rid of the set and put in a Trigger Basix replacement.I will be doing the same with my 527 as this happened to me this fall as well.....Harold

[Opalsasquatch]

[ or at the very least squeeze the trigger while closing the bolt so at minimum its not cocked.



I think this is a lesson on why you NEVER NEVER depend on the stupid safety.[/QUOTE]


So the firing pin rests on the primer?...

I don't have a problem with a guy that has a round in the pipe if he knows where to point it... I do have a problem with dropping a firing pin on a live round and thinking it's any safer to carry around

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by Opalsasquatch

[ or at the very least squeeze the trigger while closing the bolt so at minimum its not cocked.



I think this is a lesson on why you NEVER NEVER depend on the stupid safety.

So the firing pin rests on the primer?...

I don't have a problem with a guy that has a round in the pipe if he knows where to point it... I do have a problem with dropping a firing pin on a live round and thinking it's any safer to carry around[/QUOTE]

X2. If safeties were not supposed to be used, guns would not have them.

[Opalsasquatch]

And just to prove I'm not trying to be a d**k

Here is a primed case for one of my rifles, through the action ONCE, while pulling the trigger and closing the bolt

Before and after


It's all good until it isn't


"Shuuuuuuussssshhhhh.

You can't post stuff like that, too many heads will explode."
Hillbillyreefer

[denied access]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

So the firing pin rests on the primer?...

I don't have a problem with a guy that has a round in the pipe if he knows where to point it... I do have a problem with dropping a firing pin on a live round and thinking it's any safer to carry around

X2. If safeties were not supposed to be used, guns would not have them.[/QUOTE]

You should change your user name to accidental shooting. Listen here kid cause Im gonna drop a knowledge bomb on you. If you are depending on a safety then you are a fool. And so is anyone who would hunt with you. If you cannot cycle a round before taking a shot you need to learn to hunt a wee bit better. It is guys like you who accidentally shoot people. It is retards who accidentally shoot people that make the rest of us look bad and give the antis the ammo they need to attack us. There is absolutely no reason in the entire world short of following a wounded predator that would require a round in the chamber with a cocked action. None. Not one.

There are a tonne of reasons not to depend on a stupid safety including the OP.

If you can show me one instance of any gun accidentally discharging with out a round in the chamber I will eat my shoes. If you can show me one incident of a bolt action accidentally discharging with closed bolt and uncocked I will publicly apologize for all the names I have called you in my head.

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by denied access

X2. If safeties were not supposed to be used, guns would not have them.

You should change your user name to accidental shooting. Listen here kid cause Im gonna drop a knowledge bomb on you. If you are depending on a safety then you are a fool. And so is anyone who would hunt with you. If you cannot cycle a round before taking a shot you need to learn to hunt a wee bit better. It is guys like you who accidentally shoot people. It is retards who accidentally shoot people that make the rest of us look bad and give the antis the ammo they need to attack us. There is absolutely no reason in the entire world short of following a wounded predator that would require a round in the chamber with a cocked action. None. Not one.

There are a tonne of reasons not to depend on a stupid safety including the OP.




If you can show me one instance of any gun accidentally discharging with out a round in the chamber I will eat my shoes. If you can show me one incident of a bolt action accidentally discharging with closed bolt and uncocked I will publicly apologize for all the names I have called you in my head.[/QUOTE]


Please look at Opalsasquatch post above. He is illustrating it for you.

[denied access]

Originally Posted by Opalsasquatch

And just to prove I'm not trying to be a d**k

Here is a primed case for one of my rifles, through the action ONCE, while pulling the trigger and closing the bolt

Before and after


It's all good until it isn't


"Shuuuuuuussssshhhhh.

You can't post stuff like that, too many heads will explode."
Hillbillyreefer

Oh My!!!
That's really close..... to doing absolutely nothing. PS you story don't make sense to anyone who understands how a bolt action works.

[Opalsasquatch]

I'm not saying to run around with a loaded gun pointing willy nilly all over the place. When I am hunting with a partner I am unchambered most of the time anyway.

The OP had a mechanical failure, and nobody got hurt because he was controlling the muzzle.

I was only attempting to point out that a decocked bolt rifle's firing pin is resting on the primer.

It also puts your finger on the trigger while loading a rifle.

I personally don't feel that it is a good practice. I wasn't really looking to start an argument. I probably could've worded it better

Sorry


"Shuuuuuuussssshhhhh.

You can't post stuff like that, too many heads will explode."
Hillbillyreefer

[bsmitty27]

Originally Posted by denied access

X2. If safeties were not supposed to be used, guns would not have them.

.

If you can show me one instance of any gun accidentally discharging with out a round in the chamber I will eat my shoes. If you can show me one incident of a bolt action accidentally discharging with closed bolt and uncocked I will publicly apologize for all the names I have called you in my head.[/QUOTE]

Here a link to a guy who accidentally fired savage while uncocking rifle.

http://www.okshooters.com/threads/un...-action.92974/

I'm not here to say which is safer. Muzzle controll is most important. but easy on calling guys out for their practice, (which is common practice) when your suggested practice very dangerous as well. The cz has a very nice trigger but can be dangerously light, in set and unset positions.
Brad

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by denied access

Oh My!!!
That's really close..... to doing absolutely nothing. PS you story don't make sense to anyone who understands how a bolt action works.

Closing a bolt with the trigger depressed so the pin rests on the trigger is NEVER a good idea.
That is an incident looking for a place to happen.
Muzzle control rules but why tempt fate?
Cat

[denied access]

Reread my post. I said " leave the shells in the mag where they belong or at the very least squeeze the trigger while closing the bolt so at minimum its not cocked"

As in leave the shells in the mag but if you really really need to have one in the pipe uncock the gun.

You found a savage that went off because closing uncocked
A: Its a cheap POS
B: Obviously dirty or has a burr


I bet you can find hundreds that went off with the safety. Including a SAKO 338 that did it to me. (Screws holding trigger group were lose after it came back from a gunsmith. Didnt notice. Sitting on a hill calling moose. Chambered round. Engaged safety. Moose answered. Disengaged safety in prep. Gun went BOOM. No Moose. Lesson Learned.)

But I am a man of my word So I hereby apologize to Bergerboy (aka accidental shooting) for calling him a great many unflattering names in my head

In closing not a good idea to depend on a safety or anything other than an empty chamber. And then don't depend on that. Its often an unloaded gun that causes an accidental shooting.

[bighorn1]

i can see a lot of guys carrying one in the pipe with all of the predators in the west country these days and i am one of them. Rather than rely on the safety i usually chamber a round and do not close the bolt fully and also have the safety on. Also being that i shoot a x-bolt i have the option to un-chamber that round without every cycling the safety.

[denied access]

So one more interesting thing to add on this.

Most of my friends that I grew up with including myself carry or have carried our bolt actions closed and uncocked on a live round. I just finished texting 3 of them anyway and they do or have done it. Apparantly most on here don't. So why is that? Why the difference?

I originally came from a farm in very rural Sask. Closest Police, Hospital, CO etc 50 mins away. I am 43 so I really came of age in the 80s and very early 90s. We grew up carrying guns all the time and hunting all the time. Seasons or no seasons. Racks in the back window, the whole bit. To be honest at that time and in that place poaching was not even really considered to be bad by us, our parents or our community. Our dads all did it and we ate every scrap of it. They may have tried to justify it in different ways but the truth is nobody really cared. There was a tonne of game and people from the cities simply did not come out that way to hunt or to do anything else for that matter. Most people felt that the gov or anyone else had no business telling anyone what they could or could not do on our own land. It was a different time and a different place and I suspect that we were the last generation to experience that type of freedom. Of course this was before school shootings and terrorists and C68 and all the other stuff so common now as well as the last gasp of the family farm.

Most of my friends are the same. We were all taught gun "stuff" by our dads of course. Most of our dads had as first, and sometimes only rifles, army surplus enfields.

Most of our dads of course were taught gun stuff by their dads. Their dads (our grandfathers) honed their rifle skills in WW11 or providing for the family where a miss meant no food. Carrying an Enfield with the bolt closed uncocked on a live round is perfectly acceptable. Mauser based actions do not engage when closing in this fashion and additionally have a plunger to pull to cock them. Same as the cooey .22s that all us Sask lads of my age group grew up shooting. This is the only way to carry a single shot cooey if you have half a chace of getting the drop on anything.

I think that this is why we all do it. But that does not make it right. And I had never heard not to do it. So I did a little reading on it tonight because why did we do it and no one else.

I also think on further reading that unless we are carrying an enfield or other mauser based action it is not a good idea and even then still not as good as no round in the chamber at all.

My primary Hunting Rifles are a MkV and a custom .260AI based on a Mod 70 CRF so no prob with either of these but I also have several customs based on Mod 700 and a couple oddballs so I think I will not do this any more.

Only time I really did chamber a round in this fashion in the last few years is after I get an answer to a call anyway. I felt it was quicker / quieter to cycle bolt handle up and down than to full stroke it.

I still stand by the statement that I would not go afield or hunt with someone who insists on relying on a safety. The couple times I have encountered this is generally new hunters and first generation hunters (city folks taking it up). Both of them quit doing it after I asked them.

I almost always carry my rifle closed on empty chamber, uncocked. I teach my kids this as well. 2 rings of safety to go with the 3 rings of steel.

And I whole heartedly agree that muzzle control is king. My daughter is just doing her HEED course and its good to see how much this is stressed. It is still amazing to see how bad some people are at it though. I cannot count the number of times in my life I have seen a rifle waved across me or others. Simply inexcusable. Tomorrow (Im at work tonight although work might be a strong word for it) I am going to ask her if they addressed safeties in the heed course.

I hate safeties on rifles. I delete them on my Marlin Levers and do not use them on anything else. I feel that they should not be installed on rifles at all and a lot less accidents would occur without them.

Thats the good thing about forums like this. If you can get past the sniping there is a lot of knowledge and different backgrounds here to learn from.

[Chargerguy]

I prefer condition 1 for my style of hunting.

[densa44]

This is a very disturbing thread BTW. Here is the question; Is there a design that lets the hunter unload his gun with the safety on (I see from this post that is not much of a guarantee) ? If yes why aren't they all like that?

[elkhunter11]

Let me be the fourth person to emphasize that it isn't a smart idea to hold the trigger and close the bolt on a live round.