bison belong?

[inamato]

just received from a friend. talks about this have been going on for a while, but here is the opportunity to tell parks canada what you think about bison reintroduction. my opinion: disaster for moose and elk and whatever we have as wildlife and HUGE safety concern. they claim bison will stay in the enclosure?????? ahahahh!!!!! bison will not get into provincial land????? ahahaha. Please read whet they post and note the "excellent plan" words as they describe their own plan. brain washing???? oh yeah.... don't forget: if you think that we will get a season for bison on provincial land: think again, as they are considered livestock, not wildlife (hence no season?!!!!????
right?). below is what the email was saying: and here is the link to make your voice heard!

http://www.bisonbelong.ca/en/consultation.php


10 Days Left To Make Your Voice Heard!
National Public Consultation from Parks Canada from September 9 to November 1, 2013
On September 09, 2013 Parks Canada released, for public comment, an excellent plan for the reintroduction of wild plains bison in Banff National Park. The Bison Belong campaign supports the plan!
It is important that Parks Canada hear from you before the deadline of November 1. Send your comments directly to Parks Canada here. One voice at a time, we will make a wild bison herd!
Learn more about Bison Belong's views on the proposed Plan for plains bison reintroduction in Banff National Park.
This important ecological restoration is based on cultural, historical and ecological values.
Send your comments and like us on Facebook to know more about the next steps.
IT'S TIME TO MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD
Read Parks Canada's Plan to reintroduce this iconic species in Banff National Park...
Please let Parks Canada know you are eager to see wild plains bison in Banff National Park before November 1, 2013.

[Junglefisher]

Just a serious question as I have no idea.
Why would they be disaster for moose and elk?
Aren't bison grass eaters only?

[Okotokian]

"Parks Canada has interesting plans for the public, including First Nations engagement with bison."
Engagement = hunting? First nations get to hunt them in the park?

Personaly, I'm torn. All that fencing is going to cost $$$$$$, plus the associate hassles and management costs. BUT, some will probably get out and then we can have bison hunting in K country! Like that. LOL

[thirty-30]

I live right up against Wood Buffalo National Park and often work in Garden River.

Lemme tell ya something..

I've almost killed many a buffalo out here.

With my ford, not with my gun.

Stay in the enclosure=riiiiiight.

[st99]

I'd say get all the cattle out of crown land, and put bison in

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by st99

I'd say get all the cattle out of crown land, and put bison in

Not a bad idea.... Conservation Officers I know (admittedly not a huge sample LOL) can't stand all the cattle in there.

[bison]

Yeah it could cost a nickel or 2 to fence banf off.
Bison 5' high gamefence is $3500 per mile fore the wire alone, it will keep bison in provided you keep the trees from falling on it, but moose and deer and elk hop right over and often wreck it in the process.
When the grazing is good year round bison will never test that fence but old bulls that are kicked out of the herd and a shortage of grazing for the herd might them go look for greener pastures on the other site and unless that fence get checked daily these critters will get out sooner or later.
Bison are also h3ll on trees, they kill them by stripping the bark off.

I raise bison for a living so i should know.

[Smokinyotes]

Originally Posted by st99

I'd say get all the cattle out of crown land, and put bison in

So who is going to pay for fencing the crown land. ?

[bison]

Originally Posted by st99

I'd say get all the cattle out of crown land, and put bison in

I take it you ain't a rancher

[st99]

Originally Posted by Smokinyotes

So who is going to pay for fencing the crown land. ?

I see 2 options, some people might have better idea :

1- the owner of the land that border crown land is responsible for the fence

2- any bison that venture on private land can be hunted at all time of the year, similar to predator

[Red Bullets]

In My Opinion only...

Either taxpayers pay to fence the parks or taxpayers pay increased insurance premiums if they live, work or play where the buffalo roam.

Buffalo in an area they were originally from seems sort of a natural to me.
With all the back country users and autos in the Parks, they will just have to adjust. The animals have tried to adjust and they can't do it alone. If you live in remote areas like the edge of Wood Buffalo, it is one of the hazards of the area. If you live on a coastal salmon river in Alaska you adjust for the kodiak bears. If you live in the slums of New York, there are certain hazards you adjust to too.

There are free range herds in north America. It's not like Parks Canada is trying some kind of grand experiment. It is about restoring things to the way it was.
In this thread someone mentioned , oh, the buffalo will 'escape' an enclosure. Why does there have to be a enclosure? Maybe it is the people that are escaping their enclosures. The buffalo farmer mentions the fence pushing by animals. As far as the parks...With all the rocks in the mountains I am sure a bunch of jail inmates could make a fine stone fence, how ever long, that no moose, elk, buffalo would challenge.

If natives harvest buffalo again maybe their people will feel a sense of restoration too. I imagine that the 'buffalo hunters' would feel like a long bad nightmare is maybe finally over. The buffalo were once their deepest root in life. And it wasn't that long ago. I was born in the 1950's and only 90 years before, one lifetime for some people, there were still the free range herds around Alberta.

Like mentioned, get the cattle out of the foothills too. Why feed and maintain thousands of cattle when buffalo would be more efficient on the same land with less maintanence, and better quality meat. And no one or no gov't would be getting lease money or private individuals involved with crown public land...

Buffalo should be looked at as a resource to be restored, not to be decided by the vehicle drivers or Banff backpackers.

[honda450]

Originally Posted by bison

I take it you ain't a rancher

I ain't no bison rancher either, but if I was I would be in whole hog. Just think of the bison jerky sales to Japanese tourists. hehe They ain't gotta know it don't come from Banff.

They tried re introduction of bison to Jasper years ago......didn't work critters all wandered off. Figured they might of learned something new from that.

Dang they even tried releasing some on the Rock..........Nope didn't work either. Go figure. hehe

The ones in Waterton seem to be doing fine as well as Elk Island.

I say give er. I don't go there anyhow. hehehe

[inamato]

they are much more aggressive, they displace whatever is there and yes, they eat grass but they also are pretty tough on the habitat. they eat whatever is the best, but there is no much left after a herd of bison goes through. Also: they might push predator numbers up but then predators focus on more vulnerable species (elk and moose). Just few thoughts.

[bison]

Originally Posted by st99

I'd say get all the cattle out of crown land, and put bison in

Got another one for ye.
As of today one is not allowed to graze bison on a crown land lease.
Would be kind of hypocritical if the government breaks their own law.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by bison

Got another one for ye.
As of today one is not allowed to graze bison on a crown land lease.
Would be kind of hypocritical if the government breaks their own law.

federal park.

[honda450]

Originally Posted by bison

Got another one for ye.
As of today one is not allowed to graze bison on a crown land lease.
Would be kind of hypocritical if the government breaks their own law.

Yup that's federal land hoss. That's why ya need a different fishin licence. That's why ya gotta pay to get in. ETC.

[fordtruckin]

Originally Posted by Junglefisher

Just a serious question as I have no idea.
Why would they be disaster for moose and elk?
Aren't bison grass eaters only?

I'm not sure how they would be a disaster for moose and elk. Having lived the past 3 years outside of Yellowstone where there is plenty of elk and bison to go around as well as the odd moose, they pretty much leave each other alone. While I'm sure the odd one or two get into a fight, I don't see it as an every day occurrence that would be worth getting your knickers in a knot. As far as grazing? well Bison are like any other grazer. They go where the food is.

Now on the opposite side, I do know how dangerous they are and destructive they can be to property. Pretty much if they want to go somewhere no fence is going to stop them. If they don't jump it they go through it. (Yes I've seen Buffys jump 5foot tall jack leg fences)

[Grizzly Adams]

this video about says it all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcQ_i2OclrI

Grizz

[martinnordegg]

Well if the bison fence is impervious to them ( Ha Ha) how the heck are the other ungulates going to get back and forth through them. Also I do not see us taxpayers funding this when hospitals, education etc. is suffering funding.

They are also in their program going to "soft release" them into the designated area. This requires feed to be flown in after the bison are helicoptered to the soft release area. Parks Canada won't allow you to move a rock in the Park yet they can fly all over the place bringing in panels for an enclosure, bison and feed possibly contaminated with weeds. Certainly does fly in the face of Parks policy.

In discussion with Provincial Biologists, they DO NOT WANT THIS PROJECT TO MOVE FORWARD!! Disease is one of the reasons. A HUGE risk!

All this noise is coming from a Foundation in Banff with NO funding for this project and a retirement plan for a couple retired Parks Biologists. The whole thing just doesn't make sense. This Foundation wants US TAXPAYERS to foot the bill. CRAZY

If you read their information blurb any questions or negative responses listed are brushed off and ignored. Public input my *ss. They have one agenda and will not properly address the Public input that has been put forward.

They even tried to suck in the Local Fish and Game clubs by saying they could be the Bison Stewarts and use Parks horses and Parks cabins as a base to monitor them. I'm sure Parks Canada's lawyers would really advise to accept these liabilities. They will do anything and say anything to get this project going.

They seem to have the ear of someone because this thing should have died on the vine a long time ago. I wrote my MP as it is Federal but have yet to have a response. I suggest if you feel against this project voice your opinion and write your MP. If you are for it I guess do the same.

[bison]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

this video about says it all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcQ_i2OclrI

Grizz

You guys need to educate yourself about animal behavior
Any animal will attack when you get into their fight zone.
Bison aren't anymore dangerous than moose and elk or bear in that regard.
A beef bull or cow with calf can/will get just as nasty when a stranger gets to close, plenty cow men get killed or injured every year by their own livestock.

The stupidity of the people in that vid is unbelievable,.don't blame that bison, these people and kids were way to close, That bison gave plenty warning with stamping his feet and shaking his head and tail straight up in the air, it all means get the he!! out of my way right now ..or i make you...
It is non knowledge and/or sheer stupidity that causes most of these accidents.

[thumper]

I'm all for it. At least bison have a good chance of successful re-introduction. Better than wasting major $$$ in trying to reintroduce a doomed species like caribou in Banff National Park!

[Selkirk]

Originally Posted by Red Bullets

In My Opinion only...

Either taxpayers pay to fence the parks or taxpayers pay increased insurance premiums if they live, work or play where the buffalo roam.

Buffalo in an area they were originally from seems sort of a natural to me.
With all the back country users and autos in the Parks, they will just have to adjust. The animals have tried to adjust and they can't do it alone. If you live in remote areas like the edge of Wood Buffalo, it is one of the hazards of the area. If you live on a coastal salmon river in Alaska you adjust for the kodiak bears. If you live in the slums of New York, there are certain hazards you adjust to too.

There are free range herds in north America. It's not like Parks Canada is trying some kind of grand experiment. It is about restoring things to the way it was.
In this thread someone mentioned , oh, the buffalo will 'escape' an enclosure. Why does there have to be a enclosure? Maybe it is the people that are escaping their enclosures. The buffalo farmer mentions the fence pushing by animals. As far as the parks...With all the rocks in the mountains I am sure a bunch of jail inmates could make a fine stone fence, how ever long, that no moose, elk, buffalo would challenge.

If natives harvest buffalo again maybe their people will feel a sense of restoration too. I imagine that the 'buffalo hunters' would feel like a long bad nightmare is maybe finally over. The buffalo were once their deepest root in life. And it wasn't that long ago. I was born in the 1950's and only 90 years before, one lifetime for some people, there were still the free range herds around Alberta.

Like mentioned, get the cattle out of the foothills too. Why feed and maintain thousands of cattle when buffalo would be more efficient on the same land with less maintanence, and better quality meat. And no one or no gov't would be getting lease money or private individuals involved with crown public land...

Buffalo should be looked at as a resource to be restored, not to be decided by the vehicle drivers or Banff backpackers.

Amen to that ^ ... I couldn't have said it better.

Mac

[waterninja]

i'm all for it. love seeing those monsters almost every time iv'e been to 936. something majestic about them. we were tthinking of harvesting a buffalo this season in 540 or 531 but lack of accomadations is making us think twice.
sooner or later they will get out of banff park and then there legal. my old buffalo coat needs some refurbishing.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Let the buffalo roam.

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

this video about says it all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcQ_i2OclrI

Grizz

Darwin showing us why reintroduction is a great idea. Keep the w in wild and the wild will keep us on our toes

[BeeGuy]

If they escape will they be wild or feral?

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

If they escape will they be wild or feral?

Priceless ,if they eat your oats can you shoot them ?

[Selkirk]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

If they escape will they be wild or feral?

Unlike the modern horse, they've been around here for thousands of years.

I'm sure you'll agree, there ain't no such thing as a feral buffalo, in these parts.

Mac

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by MacLeod

Unlike the modern horse, they've been around here for thousands of years.

I'm sure you'll agree, there ain't no such thing as a feral buffalo, in these parts.

Mac

Why not? the herd will be introduced by man to an area it was extinct in prior ... juat like the horse.

[Selkirk]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

Why not? the herd will be introduced by man to an area it was extinct in prior ... juat like the horse.

Good point , but unlike the little horse that was here thousands of years ago, the buffalo never became extinct.

When we reintroduce an 'existing' species to an area they once belonged to, that doesn't make them feral;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_organism

Mac