Rifle Blows Apart

[buckbrushoutdoors]

https://www.remington.com/rifles/muzzleloading

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Dean2

On closer look, I think you and buckbrush are right, it is a ML.

But it is definitely in cognito.

[Huntsman]

Maybe he got distracted and only short started the sabot/projectile. Forgot to use ram rod and fully seat projectile on the powder. Capped it and pulled the trigger.

[possum]

It's a ML for sure, you can see in the pic, the Ramrod Holder right at the Muzzle Break. But why was there No Smoke in the video if they were using Black Powder ? HMMM

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by possum

It's a ML for sure, you can see in the pic, the Ramrod Holder right at the Muzzle Break. But why was there No Smoke in the video if they were using Black Powder ? HMMM

Many people do not use black powder in muzzleloader these days.

[possum]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Many people do not use black powder in muzzleloader these days.

Well the Remington is designed to handle 200 GR of BP, NOT SMOKELESS Powder, so my guess is that they were, experimenting and they messed up. The pressure had to go somewhere.........Dam lucky nobody got maimed or killed.

If you want to shoot smokeless find a used SAVAGE ML that was designed for that. JMHO

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by possum

Well the Remington is designed to handle 200 GR of BP, NOT SMOKELESS Powder, so my guess is that they were, experimenting and they messed up. The pressure had to go somewhere.........Dam lucky nobody got maimed or killed.

If you want to shoot smokeless find a used SAVAGE ML that was designed for that. JMHO

Some people are using black powder replacements like 777, that don't produce huge volumes of smoke like black powder does.

[possum]

Yes I understand that. I use 777 and I agree there is a lot less smoke. But in the video there is No Smoke. There are only 2 people that know the truth to what happened and they aint saying.....LOL

[Huntsman]

Originally Posted by possum

Well the Remington is designed to handle 200 GR of BP, NOT SMOKELESS Powder, so my guess is that they were, experimenting and they messed up. The pressure had to go somewhere.........Dam lucky nobody got maimed or killed.

If you want to shoot smokeless find a used SAVAGE ML that was designed for that. JMHO

That's a good presumption. Quite possibly a correct one.

As well, I too use 777, Pyrodex RS etc. They produce smoke. That smoke in video looked closer to smokeless. Also where is the ramrod?
My Traditions Vortex has a factory ported barrel too.

[.257Weatherby]

Thats what I like about AO, everyone is concerned with shooter safety first and foremost and not jumping to conclusions and hacking on the range involved like they do on CGN.

A guy has a revolver blow up in his hand when he drops the hammer and suddenly its a ''Failure'' at so and so gun range in Toronto.

I dont do FB so can not see the video footage ...

I am curious about the situation and the shooters condition and from the sounds of it the guy needs some new undies and prolly some therapy with a .22 to regain confidence.

Whats that on the barrel at the muzzle brake??

Rob

**EH, I have no idea why they are blaming the Range in the other forum I mentioned, but suffice to suggest maybe Sour Grapes from a previous interaction of some sort.
Prolly guys ****ed at not being able to shoot sks and steel core ammo at the indoor range...speculation at best on my part.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by .257Weatherby

Thats what I like about AO, everyone is concerned with shooter safety first and foremost and not jumping to conclusions and hacking on the range involved like they do on CGN.

A guy has a revolver blow up in his hand when he drops the hammer and suddenly its a ''Failure'' at so and so gun range in Toronto.

I dont do FB so can not see the video footage ...

I am curious about the situation and the shooters condition and from the sounds of it the guy needs some new undies and prolly some therapy with a .22 to regain confidence.

Whats that on the barrel at the muzzle brake??

Rob

Why would someone blame the range where this occurred? The range doesn't inspect every rifle before it is loaded, and every load before it is fired. How could the range have prevented this? The shooter suffered some injuries to his hand which had to be sewn up, but he was lucky to not suffer more serious injury.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by .257Weatherby

Thats what I like about AO, everyone is concerned with shooter safety first and foremost and not jumping to conclusions and hacking on the range involved like they do on CGN.

A guy has a revolver blow up in his hand when he drops the hammer and suddenly its a ''Failure'' at so and so gun range in Toronto.

well the incident you are referring to was range reloaded ammo and a range revolver. so if it was a problem with the gun or the ammo it was their fault.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

well the incident you are referring to was range reloaded ammo and a range revolver. so if it was a problem with the gun or the ammo it was their fault.

If that information is fact, then the range could very well be liable for the incident. If they have a license to manufacture ammunition, that may change, and if they don't have a license, they might not be in business much longer.

[Scottmisfits]

And that incident you’re talking about was supposedly at the Shooting Edge

[bat119]

Remington only recommends using black powder in theirs however there are guys making extreme smokeless muzzle loaders using Remington, Savage actions. All good fun until it goes off like a hand grenade 325grs, @ 2790 FPS explains the muzzle brake.


CBJ Precision - Extreme Smokeless Muzzleloaders - REM 700 SA/LA

http://precisionengineeredrifles.com..._muzzleloaders

[IMG][/IMG]

[Bergerboy]

[QUOTE=bat119;3626015]Remington only recommends using black powder in theirs however there are guys making extreme smokeless muzzle loaders using Remington, Savage actions. All good fun until it goes off like a hand grenade 325grs, @ 2790 FPS explains the muzzle brake.


CBJ Precision - Extreme Smokeless Muzzleloaders - REM 700 SA/LA

http://precisionengineeredrifles.com..._muzzleloaders

A muzzle loader built on a Rem700 seems to be skirting the edges of what a muzzle loader actually is.

[32-40win]

I couldn't bring up that Courtney post on FB, but, a different post showed the vid of the gun blowing, the guy took a mangling on it. General consensus on the one I read, from some gunwriters, was, he loaded it with a BP charge weight of smokeless.That was learning what not to do, the hard way, for sure.

[double gun]

Originally Posted by bat119

Remington only recommends using black powder in theirs however there are guys making extreme smokeless muzzle loaders using Remington, Savage actions.

To be clear, the customs all use breech plugs, ventloners, and barrels designed to be used with smokeless. Nobody (at least with a brain) is running smokeless in a muzzleloader designed for black powder.

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

A muzzle loader built on a Rem700 seems to be skirting the edges of what a muzzle loader actually is.

How do you figure? Inlines have been around for decades. You still need to load from the muzzle, you still have loose powder, a bullet, and a cap (primer in this case). The reason Remington based muzzleloaders are becoming more popular is because of the unlimited stock, trigger, and mount options.

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by double gun

How do you figure? Inlines have been around for decades. You still need to load from the muzzle, you still have loose powder, a bullet, and a cap (primer in this case). The reason Remington based muzzleloaders are becoming more popular is because of the unlimited stock, trigger, and mount options.

This appears to me like a bolt action rifle that has been modified to act as a muzzle loader to barely satisfy the law. The problem I see with this as they are advertising 300yard accuracy is this cause change to the current muzzle loader season. They will begin to view them as no different than a center fire rifle.
I do know that this was brought up at a recent meeting with the Alberta Wildlife Policy Division. The person asked the director of this division to investigate the use of modern inline muzzle loaders and to reclassify them due to the increased performance.
You can keep pushing the line but eventually someone will move the line.

[double gun]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

This appears to me like a bolt action rifle that has been modified to act as a muzzle loader to barely satisfy the law. The problem I see with this as they are advertising 300yard accuracy is this cause change to the current muzzle loader season. They will begin to view them as no different than a center fire rifle.
I do know that this was brought up at a recent meeting with the Alberta Wildlife Policy Division. The person asked the director of this division to investigate the use of modern inline muzzle loaders and to reclassify them due to the increased performance.
You can keep pushing the line but eventually someone will move the line.

Who cares what the action is based on? You still have to pour powder down the barrel, push a bullet down, and put on a cap. There is no added strength to using a 700 action, the pressure is still contained in the barrel by the breechplug. Black powder rifles are also increasing in accuracy, and performance - which is another problem with trying to redefine the qualifications.

How would the "line" be redefined? Your rifle has to be a inaccurate POS or it's not allowed in the muzzleloader season? The rifles are killing more efficiently - isn't that a good thing?


As to the claims of precision engineered rifles, I wouldn't read to much into the promotional hype of a company trying to sell over priced muzzleloaders.

Time will tell, and the authorities are good at making more and more restrictive laws - that is certain. Perhaps the newer generation of long range centerfire rifles will be the next target.

[bat119]

Still only a single shot rifle loaded from the muzzle, I challenge anyone to get off a second shot at a fleeing whitetail

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by bat119

Still only a single shot rifle loaded from the muzzle, I challenge anyone to get off a second shot at a fleeing whitetail

I know a guy that managed to get 3 in a moose with his muzzle loader. Fairly impressive feat if you ask me.

[Salavee]

It's time to change the legal hunting qualifier from Muzzleloader to Black Powder propellant only.

[double gun]

Originally Posted by Salavee

It's time to change the legal hunting qualifier from Muzzleloader to Black Powder propellant only.

Why? Accuracy of the new generation of black powder rifles is still there.
What are you hoping to achieve by making that requirement? That the hunter has to clean his rifle each night?

What about all the black powder substitutes that aren't smokeless -pyrodex, clear shot, clean shot and the other substitutes? these would no longer be legal even though they have been used for decades?


For the life of me I can't understand why hunters would push for more hunting restrictions.

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by double gun

Why? Accuracy of the new generation of black powder rifles is still there.
What are you hoping to achieve by making that requirement? That the hunter has to clean his rifle each night?

What about all the black powder substitutes that aren't smokeless -pyrodex, clear shot, clean shot and the other substitutes? these would no longer be legal even though they have been used for decades?


For the life of me I can't understand why hunters would push for more hunting restrictions.

I have a suspicion you don't fully understand why there is a muzzle loader season.

[double gun]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

I have a suspicion you don't fully understand why there is a muzzle loader season.

I have a suspicion you've never shot a smokeless muzzleloader.
Black powder only wont change a thing, except make the guys go back to cleaning their rifle nightly - Well played.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

I know a guy that managed to get 3 in a moose with his muzzle loader. Fairly impressive feat if you ask me.

that guy has the sleeves of a wizard i guarantee it

Originally Posted by double gun

Why? Accuracy of the new generation of black powder rifles is still there.
What are you hoping to achieve by making that requirement? That the hunter has to clean his rifle each night?

What about all the black powder substitutes that aren't smokeless -pyrodex, clear shot, clean shot and the other substitutes? these would no longer be legal even though they have been used for decades?


For the life of me I can't understand why hunters would push for more hunting restrictions.

why? probably to align with the primitive part of primitive weapon season.

correct, black powder substitutes are not black powder.

it seems like hunters have the least faith in any other hunter than any other group of people. if i see a truck drive past my field slow and they turn in i assume they're going to drive in and be stupid so i flip my hat inside out so it's blaze orange and hope i don't get shot. 99% of the time i'm right they're stupid and riding around with loaded guns shooting at sounds. so maybe hunters like restrictions because they have to deal with other hunters all the time.

[Scottmisfits]

While we’re at it, let’s make the perfectly legal for decades and completely harmless 10/22 25 round magazines prohibited for no valid reason.

Rather than try and make things more divisive between the groups, why not stand behind something that’s perfectly ok, even if it doesn’t directly suit you? Let’s ask the real question about that Salavee, how much does it really affect you enjoyment or your success in the field. I know it has zero negative effect on me, it’s legal, so why fight it?

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by double gun

I have a suspicion you've never shot a smokeless muzzleloader.

That is true, I have also never seen Machu Picchu. Neither point has anything to do with the thread.

[double gun]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

why? probably to align with the primitive part of primitive weapon season.

Problem is, it doesn't. You can shoot black powder in these smokeless models, still use a full form bullet, still shoot out to 200 yards, still shoot incredible groups.

The only thing it changes is make the guy clean his rifle each night.

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

. so maybe hunters like restrictions because they have to deal with other hunters all the time.

So let's restrict the use of any rifle. Let's go back to spears, that should make you feel safer.