Ali#1, you were right about Arizona.

[30Cal]

Originally Posted by ali#1

I see talk but I still see no proof.

That's just a beginning, do the research and you'll find unlimited evidence and resources.

http://www.alwaysbeready.com/archaeo...-for-the-bible

http://realtruth.org/articles/438-avtb.html

Plus much more.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by ali#1

I take it that you agree with Muslim women wearing face coverings in public then ? You certainly wouldn't want to be 2 faced and say one side had freedom and the others don't.

I don't care if a Muslim woman wore a Hijab or even a Bur-qua in public.

I do have an issue if that women wore it through airport security or in court or while voting, since these women can't do this in their native countries, so why should they be permitted to do it here?

You forget I have lived and I currently work in a Muslim country. I know a fair amount about Muslims, and I have no issues with them. Why would you assume I would be two faced about it? Or do you just assume this because I also think Christians should have rights too?

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by ali#1

Sure it's out of content just like all the other passages you don't follow.

You really don't know me. So kindly quit trying to assume what I am like.

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by 30Cal

Jesus Never Said Anything About Homosexuality, or Did He?
It all starts with who Jesus is.

by Linda Harvey


This common myth is simply not true!

Consider these facts:

1.Jesus is never quoted in the New Testament as having directly addressed rape, incest, domestic violence or homosexual behavior. So are we supposed to believe all these practices are okay with Him? Read on....

2.Gospel writer and apostle John tells us there are many teachings and deeds of Christ that are not included in their New Testament accounts (John 21:25).

3.Christ is quoted at one point that God created people “in the beginning” as male and female, and that marriage is the union of one man and one woman joined together as “one flesh.” (Matthew 19:4-6 and Mark 10:6-9) Nothing is said about any other type of union.

4.When He discussed sexual morality, Christ had a very high standard, clearly affirming long-standing Old Testament law. He told the woman caught in adultery to “Go and sin no more.” (John 8:11) He warned people that not only the act of adultery was wrong, but even adulterous thoughts (Matthew 5:28). And he shamed the woman at the well (John 4:18) by pointing out to her that he knew she was living with a man who was not her husband.

5.Christ used the destruction of the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah as dramatic examples of God’s wrath (Matthew 10:15, Mark 6:11, Luke 10:12, and Luke 17:29). Throughout the Old Testament, prophets described these cities as being notorious for the practice of homosexuality. (Genesis 18:20, Genesis 19:4-5, Isaiah 3:9, Jeremiah 23:14, Ezekiel 16:46-59). Jesus certainly knew that this was how the comparison would be understood.

6.Most important of all, Christ was God incarnate (in the flesh) here on earth. He was the long-expected Messiah, Emmanuel (which means "God with us"). This was revealed in Matthew 16:13- 20, Matthew 17:5-9, Mark 8:27-30, Luke 4:16-30, Luke 9:18-21,John 4:25-26, John 8:57-59 and elsewhere. As one with God, He was present from the beginning of creation (John 1: 1-13; Colossians 1:15-17; Ephesians 3:9 and elsewhere).

So, Jesus was God as the laws were handed down through Moses to Israel and eventually to the whole world. This Old Testament law clearly prohibited homosexuality (Genesis 19, Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13; Deuteronomy 23:18 and elsewhere). The apostles understood this also, as shown by Paul’s writing in Romans 1:24-27, Peter’s in 2 Peter 2:4-22, and John’s in Revelation 22:15.

So--the apostles, who were taught by Christ, clearly understood that homosexuality was a sin as it has always been. When people say, “Jesus said nothing about homosexuality,” they reveal that they really haven’t understood Scripture, or Who Christ was and is.

Maybe some of these points can lead them to a clearer understanding.

http://missionamerica.com/printarticle.php?artnum=257

Unfortunately, it seems that more and more Christians are willing to dismiss certain parts of the bible that deal with the tough issues. What does it mean when we only accept the "easy" portions of the bible that make Christianity palatable to secular society?

[Mistagin]

Originally Posted by ali#1

I see talk but I still see no proof.

Here's a start. Knock your socks off digging for yourself (pun intended again )

http://www.grantjeffrey.com/article/article7.htm

http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/category/daily/news/

http://www.manavai.com/articles/art1.htm

http://www.gotquestions.org/biblical-archaeology.html

http://www.bibleuniverse.com/article...geid/1717.aspx

http://christiannews.net/2014/01/31/...lical-account/

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by whammy

I get a kick out of how Christians cling to old testament bull**** and use it to enforce their narrow-mindedness. What's immoral about gay marriage? Two people want to be committed to one another openly. How is that immoral according to the new testament?

I do not think that gay marriage is immoral. I think that gay marriage is just not traditional in both the Hebrew Bible and the new testament.

In the Hebrew Bible families became tribes and tribes became nations. Land and herds and gold belong to families and tribes and nations. Land and herds and gold and blessings were inherited by sons, and usually first born sons. Families were so concerned about keeping their wealth in their blood lines that they looked for brides for their sons and often within their family lines or maybe an outside line if they wanted to increase their power and wealth. All this family planning would have been for not if David would have been allowed to partner up with Jonathan. The best way to control this was to give the people the idea that God hated homosexuality. They succeeded and the tradition carried over to the new testament and the creation of the Christian Church, In the early days of the church, bishops and popes were allowed to marry but the church was becoming wealthy and they had a problem with many who became wealthy as a result of their standing in the church leaving it to heirs. Someone decided that priest up to popes had to be celibate. Now we all know what problem that created.

[Wild&Free]

I went out and got longer stick, then I came back and realized it wasn't long enough. I'll take a poke though.

they're right though Ali, there's lots of evidence to support a lot of the historic events in the bible. just no pagan historians talking about a man turning water to wine or walking on water or any of that jazz. there's even evidence to support the great flood. though the body of evidence that the earth is not 6-10k years old is greater, considering zircon crystals from Australia have been dated to ~4.1 to 4.4 billion years old.

I'm not Christian, but I do believe in god (I define god as all of existence). using the transitive property, if we are gods children, and Jesus was the son of god, and Jesus is god on earth, all men have it in them to be god, or godly. The Canadian constitution also recognizes the supremacy of god in the first section. It does not define god, it also forms a hierarchy with god at the top, but no #2 for all men are subject to god.

I don't have to believe in this gospels of the Israelites or Judea because I am not their descendant, just as the line of Abraham existed alongside the lines of many many other patriarchs across the globe, each with there own philosophical debates and moral stuggles in managing and protecting their tribes. plus word of mouth is not to be trusted, anyone who's passed on a secret and watch it go around the group knows the first message is no where near close to the last message.

I also don't believe in final judgement. it's a corruption of truth and myth in my eyes. it's also a powerful psychological tool for control. if we accept final judgement, we accept outside judgement absolutely, which in turn develops a mental break allowing the compulsion to comply to the judgement of a perceived power greater then you, whether that be old golds, new gods, foreign gods or a group of men with torches and pitchforks.
you are the highest power in your life, you are the child of god, and god himself resides in you.

now the right of religious ffreedom extends from your heart and soul to the tips of your hair. No further, your thoughts, your actions. your actions shall not deprive another of their rights, including to engage in commerce or receive equitable treatment. if your faith teaches homosexuality is an abomination, don't be a homo and that is the extent of religious freedom in regards to that subject. thing is, all Christian dogma and gospel admits it exists, and therefore with the teachings of forgiveness and compassion must be accepted. so your right to believe does not negate someones right to be.

[30Cal]

Originally Posted by canadiantdi

Unfortunately, it seems that more and more Christians are willing to dismiss certain parts of the bible that deal with the tough issues. What does it mean when we only accept the "easy" portions of the bible that make Christianity palatable to secular society?

It means that the coming of the Lord draws near.

“But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. “For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,” (Matthew 24:37-38)

Note: It says marrying and giving in marriage. Sounds familiar?

[Wild&Free]

Originally Posted by 30Cal

It means that the coming of the Lord draws near.

“But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. “For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,” (Matthew 24:37-38)

Note: It says marrying and giving in marriage. Sounds familiar?

ambiguity is your enemy.

[connexion123]

Originally Posted by ali#1

I see talk but I still see no proof.

I see the same from you. Your argument is false.

[Wild&Free]

Originally Posted by connexion123

I see the same from you. Your argument is false.

All arguments on the subject of the existence of god are false, on both sides. non believers cannot disprove faith of believers and believes cannot prove faith to non believers. this is why the law recognizes the supremacy of god and sets no other hierarchy. if you believe god is #1, all people are #2. if you dont believe then all people are #1. equality under the law while protecting religious belief all nicely packaged.

[ali#1]

[QUOTE=covey ridge;2344958]

Originally Posted by ali#1

If you really believe that, why are you devoting so much time to the gay marriage issue and bashing the translated text of the Bible, and constantly being in the face of religious people, especially Christians? Why do you always seem to seek them out for argument? So you brought up people of the world living in abject poverty? Why don't you take your crusade in that direction?

I'm testing others priorities not my own, I give money to charity and I never think about gay marriage.

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

I don't care if a Muslim woman wore a Hijab or even a Bur-qua in public.

I do have an issue if that women wore it through airport security or in court or while voting, since these women can't do this in their native countries, so why should they be permitted to do it here?

You forget I have lived and I currently work in a Muslim country. I know a fair amount about Muslims, and I have no issues with them. Why would you assume I would be two faced about it? Or do you just assume this because I also think Christians should have rights too?

If they are Canadians then they are subject to Canadian laws. Are you saying that Muslims can't be real Canadians ? I have a neighbour that would disagree he's a Muslim born in Vancouver as his wife is.

In just hoping a law would be equally applied is all.

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by connexion123

I see the same from you. Your argument is false.

Please quote an independent source. I see lots of websites like bible verses.com. You think that May be a little bias ? Did people exhist 2000 years ago ? Obviously they did can they find actual things in that supposedly happened in the bible ? No they can't. No tomb, no ark, no tablets on mt Sinai etc.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by ali#1

If they are Canadians then they are subject to Canadian laws. Are you saying that Muslims can't be real Canadians ? I have a neighbour that would disagree he's a Muslim born in Vancouver as his wife is.

In just hoping a law would be equally applied is all.

Are you for real? Where did I ever say Muslim's can't be real Canadians? Are you illiterate? Or do you have a serious problem with reading comprehension?

What I have made very clear is that in traditional Muslim countries, such as all the ones in the Middle East, where I have previously lived and have worked for the better part of 13 years, is that Bur'qua clad women can't get away without showing their face when getting services at banks, or courts, or voting, and when going through security screening.

However in Canada, many of these women think they don't need to show their faces and hide behind their religion, and this is what I find wrong. And it is often people like you who think they should not have to show their faces for such things, because you feel it is not "politically correct". Well that is just plain stupid, and attitudes like that need to change.

[covey ridge]

[QUOTE=ali#1;2345830]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

I'm testing others priorities not my own, I give money to charity and I never think about gay marriage.

Who are you to be the tester of priorities? Never think of gay marriage? BS! That seems to be an outright lie. If you are not thinking about gay marriage you are thinking or testing what others think of gay marriage.

The problem is your testing seems like an all out attack on religious people, especially Christians. You cherry pick and paste text and turn your misunderstanding into an all out attack. You seem to be more bigoted against certain people that all the homophobes and racists combined.

In addition to all that you are just not that bright and not worth arguing with.

[rwm1273]

Problem with Ali is he likes to add words or thoughts to other's statements in an attempt to twist what you say so that it fits his opinions of what is right and wrong.

[Winch101]

There are so many documented events in the last 100 years that
Show Christians in a bad light you wouldn't think any sensible
Human would not follow this path . Religion is man made from its inception
its sole purpose to scare and control other humans ..in Hitlers case to justify
The holocaust. The majority of true atrocities on earth were committed
In the name of God .

Religion preys on human deficiencies , those unattractive flaws that
Science says are mental health issues but zealots perceive as sins .

This an example of the twisty rhetoric theists apply to facts they don't like.


http://alittlemoresentience.blogspot...jesus-did.html

It's difficult to be a secular instrument ,

[ali#1]

Originally Posted by Winch101

There are so many documented events in the last 100 years that
Show Christians in a bad light you wouldn't think any sensible
Human would not follow this path . Religion is man made from its inception
its sole purpose to scare and control other humans ..in Hitlers case to justify
The holocaust. The majority of true atrocities on earth were committed
In the name of God .

Religion preys on human deficiencies , those unattractive flaws that
Science says are mental health issues but zealots perceive as sins .

This an example of the twisty rhetoric theists apply to facts they don't like.


http://alittlemoresentience.blogspot...jesus-did.html

It's difficult to be a secular instrument ,

Agree.

religion is man made because I don't think a devine entity would plan this bad, It's mans first attempt to understand things. 2000 years ago we didn't know a lot of things like germs caused disease, the earth is round, volcano's are caused by pressure underground etc. It's an early attempt to understand and explain things that at the time were unexplainable. unfortunately it holds us back as a species, the church imposing on scientists saying the earth is flat for example, or even today with stem cell research. I believe we could be a hundred years more advanced without this involvement.

[ali#1]

[QUOTE=covey ridge;2345887]

Originally Posted by ali#1

Who are you to be the tester of priorities? Never think of gay marriage? BS! That seems to be an outright lie. If you are not thinking about gay marriage you are thinking or testing what others think of gay marriage.

The problem is your testing seems like an all out attack on religious people, especially Christians. You cherry pick and paste text and turn your misunderstanding into an all out attack. You seem to be more bigoted against certain people that all the homophobes and racists combined.

In addition to all that you are just not that bright and not worth arguing with.

Well this place is the only place I think of gay marriage I should say. In my day to day life I don't care about it, for me it's a settled thing that we should move on from and stop arguing about something that already happened.

It isn't an attack it's a purity test, If you say you are against gay marriage because it's in the bible then im gonna ask you what you think about working on the Sabbath for example. And if I think you are only using a bible to hidfe your own personal thoughts then im gonna call you on it.

[MegaHorn]

white power!

[Winch101]

This is thought provoking , it's fairly self explanatory ,


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/victor...nada&ir=Canada

[covey ridge]

[QUOTE=ali#1;2345928]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

It isn't an attack it's a purity test, If you say you are against gay marriage because it's in the bible then im gonna ask you what you think about working on the Sabbath for example. And if I think you are only using a bible to hidfe your own personal thoughts then im gonna call you on it.

Are you talking to me or are you talking in general when you use the word you?

If you are talking about me:
I am not against gay marriage!
I work on the Sabbath, or I should say I do not buy into the Sabbath thing other than we should not work too much without rest. If Jesus existed or did not exist, I buy what the gospels have him say about the Sabbath and that is the Sabbath is made for man and not the other way around. My personal opinion is that an unproductive Sunday is no better than any other unproductive day.

Although I have read and studied the Bible many times, I have not read it in years. I have no problem with those who establish their faith on how they understand the Bible. I do it a bit different. I have used my knowledge of the Bible to better understand me.

I have no tolerance for some like yourself that accuse the Bible of promoting intolerance or bigotry. Someone like yourself that says that Bible promoted slavery as we know it today. It simply does not do that, People do those things.

You say you are going to call someone who hides in the Bible or whatever?
I am going to call BS on just about every post you have made on this thread and every other thread except the one about Ted Nugent.

[ali#1]

[QUOTE=covey ridge;2346063]

Originally Posted by ali#1

Are you talking to me or are you talking in general when you use the word you?

If you are talking about me:
I am not against gay marriage!
I work on the Sabbath, or I should say I do not buy into the Sabbath thing other than we should not work too much without rest. If Jesus existed or did not exist, I buy what the gospels have him say about the Sabbath and that is the Sabbath is made for man and not the other way around. My personal opinion is that an unproductive Sunday is no better than any other unproductive day.

Although I have read and studied the Bible many times, I have not read it in years. I have no problem with those who establish their faith on how they understand the Bible. I do it a bit different. I have used my knowledge of the Bible to better understand me.

I have no tolerance for some like yourself that accuse the Bible of promoting intolerance or bigotry. Someone like yourself that says that Bible promoted slavery as we know it today. It simply does not do that, People do those things.

You say you are going to call someone who hides in the Bible or whatever?
I am going to call BS on just about every post you have made on this thread and every other thread except the one about Ted Nugent.

The bible does promote bigotry and slavery and you can ignore it all you want.

[rwm1273]

[QUOTE=ali#1;2346122]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

The bible does promote bigotry and slavery and you can ignore it all you want.

You are taking things out of context. You clearly do not understand the bible, nor the time in which it was written.

You can not take much of what was written literally, nor can you take what was written and directly apply it in today's society.

For example the reason why cloven hoofed animals were prohibited from being eaten in biblical times was due to the lack of refrigeration or a good means to preserve it. If you ate such meats that had been left out for days, you would get sick and possibly die. Today we don't have such issues since we have refrigeration.


You have got to be either incredibly ignorant and uneducated, or you are just trolling.

[covey ridge]

rwm1273

The quote in post 325 is not my quote! I disagree 100% with the guy who said that. He knows nothing

[ali#1]

[QUOTE=rwm1273;2346129]

Originally Posted by ali#1

You are taking things out of context. You clearly do not understand the bible, nor the time in which it was written.

You can not take much of what was written literally, nor can you take what was written and directly apply it in today's society.

For example the reason why cloven hoofed animals were prohibited from being eaten in biblical times was due to the lack of refrigeration or a good means to preserve it. If you ate such meats that had been left out for days, you would get sick and possibly die. Today we don't have such issues since we have refrigeration.


You have got to be either incredibly ignorant and uneducated, or you are just trolling.

I'm the only person taking things out of context ?

Cafeteria Christians around here are thick.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by ali#1

I'm the only person taking things out of context ?

Cafeteria Christians around here are thick.

You do not know enough about Christianity to know what a Cafeteria Christian is. It seems obvious that you do not know much about anything except maybe trolling.

[ali#1]

It's a double standard and Christians always hold others to a higher standard than themselves. The bible has become a play toy to judge others with and when someone does the same to them they make excuses and say you dont understand. I understand perfectly you want to tell others how to live what to eat who to sleep with and you want to be exempt from the same judgement yourself. We'll in not having that anymore nor is it a viable argument.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

rwm1273

The quote in post 325 is not my quote! I disagree 100% with the guy who said that. He knows nothing

I know it was not you. It was Ali that posted that. Why it appears as your's, I don't know.