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  #121  
Old 05-11-2020, 04:40 PM
guysmiley guysmiley is offline
 
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Originally Posted by MK2750 View Post
ELK is right, a tweet from a twit does not change the letter of the law, nor does some bureaucratic top cop saying we know the definition and it doesn't apply to you. The laws need to be written clearly, not some vast blanket clause with a "don't worry about it" disclaimer.
Laws need to be clear. There are just too many grey areas. "you'll probably be fine" isn't good enough for me. I like to be able to quote actual laws.
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  #122  
Old 05-11-2020, 04:59 PM
Hadji Ramjet Hadji Ramjet is offline
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Originally Posted by colvert View Post
Of course we all know that the bore refers to the length of a barrel between the chamber and the mouth/choke...
Can I take that to mean "bore" refers to the distance between Trudeau's brain and the microphone?
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  #123  
Old 05-11-2020, 06:34 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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So is this banned because of the actual bore measurement, or legal because of the SAAMI nominal bore diameter for a 12 gauge shotgun?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcGp...yqrkv2en-2qbiM
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  #124  
Old 05-11-2020, 07:23 PM
SnipeHunter SnipeHunter is offline
 
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
So is this banned because of the actual bore measurement, or legal because of the SAAMI nominal bore diameter for a 12 gauge shotgun?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcGp...yqrkv2en-2qbiM
All the RCMP say is that a 10 or 12 gauge that closely matches the SAAMI specification is legal. That firearm does not and is therefore prohibited. Some seem to think the RCMP is going to pretend that every 12 gauge has a maximum bore under 20mm but there is no evidence to support that.
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  #125  
Old 05-11-2020, 07:39 PM
ward ward is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
So is this banned because of the actual bore measurement, or legal because of the SAAMI nominal bore diameter for a 12 gauge shotgun?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcGp...yqrkv2en-2qbiM
Is that relic really choked that tight ?
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  #126  
Old 05-11-2020, 07:47 PM
SnipeHunter SnipeHunter is offline
 
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Originally Posted by ward View Post
Is that relic really choked that tight ?
Quote:
A full choke, for example, is a constriction of .035 inches. Historically, 12-gauge shotguns all had an inside barrel diameter, or bore, of .729 inches, so a full choke reduced the diameter at the muzzle to .694 inches.
https://www.outdoorcanada.ca/choosin...shotgun-choke/
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  #127  
Old 05-11-2020, 08:09 PM
ward ward is offline
 
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Originally Posted by SnipeHunter View Post
He measured the bore at .818 and choke at .692.
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  #128  
Old 05-11-2020, 10:33 PM
32-40win 32-40win is offline
 
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Assuming we are allowed to have another gun show, what's to stop them from sending someone there to check shotgun bores, consider that thought.
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  #129  
Old 05-12-2020, 10:31 PM
32-40win 32-40win is offline
 
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OOOk, new twist to the 20mm ban from the CSSA;

Virtue-Signalling Over Workplace Protection: Public Safety Minister Endangers Lives of Road Crews With OIC Firearm Prohibitions

The Minister of Public Safety is supposed to keep Canadians safe, not put their lives in danger, yet Bill Blair’s fatally flawed Order in Council immediately puts the lives of road construction crews and workers in other industries at risk.

Minister Blair’s OIC reclassifies all 8-gauge industrial guns as Prohibited firearms.

The bore of an 8-gauge industrial gun is 0.835 inches or 21.2 mm – outside the government’s 20mm maximum allowed. [i]

These guns are specifically designed for use in the cement, lime, and ferro alloy industries, as well as for road construction crews to take down dangerous rocks and other hazards after blasting operations take place.

Winchester Industrial, a division of Winchester Firearms, manufactures two models of 8-gauge industrial shotguns to meet the needs of these industries: [ii]

The Ringblaster Industrial Tool, a heavy-duty shooting platform
The Western Industrial Tool, a portable alternative to the Ringblaster

Winchester Industrial Equipment was used in Canada for:
cleaning rotary kilns, waste incinerators, silo interiors, and
dropping dangerous outcroppings left behind by blasting during road construction and maintenance.

Not any more.

Now these industries must find a new way to clean these pieces of equipment, and road crews must find some other way of removing dangerous rock outcroppings left over from blasting operations.

The unintended consequences of Public Safety Minister Bill Blair’s incompetence continues to grow, as does the evidence the Liberal government didn’t talk to anyone before implementing SOR/2020-96 and their so-called “military style assault weapons” ban.


Sources:

[i] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8_bore
[ii] https://winchesterindustrial.com/equipment.htm
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  #130  
Old 05-13-2020, 03:51 AM
SnipeHunter SnipeHunter is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ward View Post
He measured the bore at .818 and choke at .692.
I know. The bore has been altered and is now prohibited.
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  #131  
Old 05-13-2020, 04:08 AM
SnipeHunter SnipeHunter is offline
 
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Quote:
Section 2 of the Criminal Code defines a "firearm" as a barrelled weapon that discharges projectiles capable of causing bodily harm or death, or anything that can be adapted as a firearm.

What is not a firearm?
For the purposes of the Firearms Act and the Criminal Code, the following devices are generally not considered firearms (unless they're used in a criminal or negligent manner):

antique firearms
devices designed exclusively for:
signalling
notifying of distress
firing blank cartridges
firing stud cartridges
explosive-driven rivets
other industrial projectiles
shooting devices designed exclusively for:
slaughtering domestic animals
tranquilizing animals
discharging projectiles with lines attached to them
air guns and other barreled weapons designed to have:
a muzzle velocity of 152.4 meters per second or less
a muzzle energy of 5.7 joules or less
Does anyone know if you needed a PAL to get an industrial shotgun before?
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  #132  
Old 05-13-2020, 06:26 AM
sfaxien sfaxien is offline
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With the recent gun banned, What will happen to all the unsaleable guns?. Can someone please tell me?.
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  #133  
Old 05-13-2020, 06:39 AM
SnipeHunter SnipeHunter is offline
 
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Originally Posted by sfaxien View Post
With the recent gun banned, What will happen to all the unsaleable guns?. Can someone please tell me?.
Likely returned to OEM and/or exported to the USA at considerable cost to the retailers.
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  #134  
Old 05-13-2020, 06:55 AM
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catnthehat catnthehat is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipeHunter View Post
Does anyone know if you needed a PAL to get an industrial shotgun before?
No more than you did a Ramset or a Hilti
Cat
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  #135  
Old 05-13-2020, 07:42 AM
SnipeHunter SnipeHunter is offline
 
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Originally Posted by catnthehat View Post
No more than you did a Ramset or a Hilti
Cat
Okay but where does it say that? The ammunition for these do not seem to be appreciably different than conventional ammunition. In what way are they "...designed exclusively for...other industrial projectiles..."

Just trying to understand...can you or anybody expand on this?

https://winchesterindustrial.com/loads.html
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  #136  
Old 05-13-2020, 08:15 AM
Diesel_wiesel Diesel_wiesel is offline
 
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Originally Posted by CNP View Post
It is not confusing. Your 12 or 10 gauge shotgun is not prohibited. Never was intended to be prohibited and will not be prohibited. If you think that while out duck hunting a F&W officer will confiscate your 12 gauge shotgun you are being mislead. The 20mm prohibition is for firearms that can fire 20mm munitions. If you can find a 12 gauge shotgun that can fire 20mm munitions (cannon rounds) then I would call that firearm prohibited because it is no longer a shotgun. Removing a screw in choke does not turn a shotgun into a 20mm weapon. It's pie in the sky baloney...excellent trolling material
I'm thinking there is the odd brown nosing stripe hunter that will confiscate your 10 gauge though
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  #137  
Old 05-13-2020, 01:23 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Perhaps the government is imposing restrictions on the wrong people?

https://www.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=393104
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  #138  
Old 05-13-2020, 02:03 PM
sfaxien sfaxien is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipeHunter View Post
Likely returned to OEM and/or exported to the USA at considerable cost to the retailers.
Oh Yeah.
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  #139  
Old 05-13-2020, 04:01 PM
SnipeHunter SnipeHunter is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
Perhaps the government is imposing restrictions on the wrong people?

https://www.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=393104
Not what you want to see. Mistakes do happen. The hyperbole about risk is a bit over the top in the story. They have a fear fetish when it comes to firearms. But thankfully no kids got their hands on it.
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  #140  
Old 05-13-2020, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipeHunter View Post
Okay but where does it say that? The ammunition for these do not seem to be appreciably different than conventional ammunition. In what way are they "...designed exclusively for...other industrial projectiles..."

Just trying to understand...can you or anybody expand on this?

https://winchesterindustrial.com/loads.html
These things are considered tools no Different than a stable gun or nail gun .
Cat
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  #141  
Old 05-13-2020, 10:42 PM
32-40win 32-40win is offline
 
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Little more food for thought from the CSSA;

Sneaky Liberal Government Bans Many Firearms by Muzzle Energy

NEW CSSA Legal Opinion opens another Pandora's Box!

May 8, 2020

OSHAWA: Public Safety Minister Bill Blair insisted, via a Twitter post, that the CSSA Legal Opinion proving he – through ignorance or incompetence – banned many 12-gauge and 10-gauge shotguns in SOR/2020-96 was wrong.

“Both 10- and 12-gauge shotguns are under the 20mm provision, and thus not subject to the prohibition. Our government is taking action to protect Canadians by banning assault-style weapons – not those used for hunting.”

Thank goodness for Twitter. Apparently it has replaced the Criminal Code.

Also included are two new categories of firearms that are newly banned.

These are characterized by the following physical attributes:
⦁ Firearms with 20 mm bore or greater.
⦁ Firearms capable of discharging a projectile with a muzzle energy greater than 10 000 joules.

Even if we accept Minister Blair’s bombast on bore diameter (we don’t), the key words of the energy limitation of 10,000 joules are:

“capable of discharging a projectile…”

READ THE NEW CSSA LEGAL OPINION: "Section 96, Capable of 10,000 Joules" written by noted firearms expert Edward L. Burlew LL.B.

On Sunday, February 9, 2020, two months before anyone knew the Canadian government would ban guns using muzzle energy limits, Reddit user Bigbore_729 used a chronograph to capture what happened when he fired a 656-grain slug from a specially modified 12-gauge shotgun.

The slug exited the barrel at 2,270 feet per second. This is 7,507 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle, or 10,178 joules, exceeding the government’s muzzle energy ceiling.

See this here!

The Order-in-Council’s criteria for its muzzle energy limit is “capable of ...”

It does not say “safely.” It does not say capable of doing it “more than once.”

⦁ This Reddit user proved a modified 12-gauge shotgun is “capable of discharging a projectile with a muzzle energy greater than 10 000 joules.”

While we strongly advise against attempting this with your 12-gauge shotgun, this video proves a 12-gauge shotgun is “capable of,” potentially turning 12-gauge shotguns into Prohibited firearms under SOR/2020-96.

This is not an isolated circumstance. Many very expensive hunting firearms - bolt actions, single shot and double rifle types - are prohibited. Some of these are fine, handmade, one-of-a-kind firearms worth many thousands of dollars and not a single semi-automatic "assault-type" weapon among them.

CSSA Executive Director, Tony Bernardo says, "Minister Blair should be ashamed of himself. His promise to Canadian rings hollow with deceit. Circumventing Parliament to steal the lawfully owned property of ordinary people is contemptible."

"The use of Order-in-Council to further the Liberals cultural annihilation of licenced firearm owners is an affront to democracy and all Canadians should be outraged." he added.

Remember the Public Safety Minister’s promise to hunters, farmers and target shooters?

“I want to assure hunters and farmers and target shooters in this country that nothing that we are doing today or will do in the future is intended to interfere with this lawful, responsible and legal activity.”

—Bill Blair, Minister of Public Safety, Friday, May 1, 2020.

When someone screws up once we can attribute it to ignorance or incompetence. But when he screws up twice on the same issue, that sounds like intentional deception to us.

We demand Minister Bill Blair immediately rescind SOR/2020-96 until such time as he can figure out what he’s really trying to accomplish.

He clearly hasn’t done so yet, and all hunters, farmers and target shooters are paying the price for his deceit.

-30-

For more information contact:

Tony Bernardo
Executive Director
905-571-2150
info@cssa-cila.org
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  #142  
Old 05-13-2020, 10:56 PM
32-40win 32-40win is offline
 
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Justice Minister David Lametti does have a Twitter acct, hit it. What kind of a lawyer would let this type of legislation be put thru?
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