Many 12 Gauge Shotguns Banned

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by SnipeHunter

Those were already prohibited. But now the conditions maybe have changed. I could be wrong...but I think most smokeless 8 gauge or larger are industrial shotguns (blasting carbon in furnaces, etc.). I was wondering what impact this order will have on those users. TBD?

edit: Actually, I may be wrong about how 8 gauge was classified. Apologies.

Kiln guns, and power actuated tools like Hiltis and Ramsets are not considered weapons as far as firearms go.
Cat

[wind drift]

This is an excerpt from a post on another shooting forum:

“This is grandstanding and manufactured hysteria by the attorney, IMHO - the only way to make the bore exceed 20mm is by removing the choke tube and that makes the weapon unfit to be fired, regardless of the attorney's opinion that doing so won't damage the barrel. We all know better.”

I agree with this. The nominal bore diameters of 12 and 10 gauge shotguns are less than 20mm. This is the benchmark used as the basis for the restriction.

I don’t support this aberration of democracy, but the lawyer’s argument is out of whack and won’t go anywhere.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by wind drift

This is an excerpt from a post on another shooting forum:

“This is grandstanding and manufactured hysteria by the attorney, IMHO - the only way to make the bore exceed 20mm is by removing the choke tube and that makes the weapon unfit to be fired, regardless of the attorney's opinion that doing so won't damage the barrel. We all know better.”

I agree with this. The nominal bore diameters of 12 and 10 gauge shotguns are less than 20mm. This is the benchmark used as the basis for the restriction.

I don’t support this aberration of democracy, but the lawyer’s argument is out of whack and won’t go anywhere.

A shotgun certainly can be fired without a choke tube installed. I have witnessed it first hand, I actually pointed it out to the guy, and he didn't even realize there was no choke tube in the gun. He had cleaned the gun, and never reinstalled a choke tube. He shot almost half a round of skeet before it was noticed that he had no choke tube in the gun. He went over , threaded a choke tube into the barrel, and finished his round of skeet.

[FellSwoop]

I would suggest that Edward Burlew has a strong background in firearm legislation and we should be advised by his opinion at least for now. The CSAAA had an advisory not to purchase 12 gauge shotguns or larger and also large caliber non semi automatic rifles until this can be resolved.

[wind drift]

All that will come of this is a message from Blair clarifying the rule is based on nominal bore diameter and doesn’t render 12 and 10 gauge shotguns prohibited, and he’ll probably relish the opportunity to appear more knowledgeable than us.

[Bergerboy]

By the same definition of measuring a shotgun bore with a choke tube removed, how would the bore of a rifle fitted with a brake or the Jungle Carbine fitted with a flash suppressor?

I think the CSAAA is using good ol' Dog Whistle politics.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

By the same definition of measuring a shotgun bore with a choke tube removed, how would the bore of a rifle fitted with a brake or the Jungle Carbine fitted with a flash suppressor?

I think the CSAAA is using good ol' Dog Whistle politics.

There is difference between the shotgun shooting shot, and a rifle shooting a single projectile. With the rifle, the projectile will at no time be larger while in the barrel, and it won't contact the brake or flash suppressor. In the case of a shotgun, the wad or the shot can contact the threads, while in the barrel, so the wad and shot may be over 20mm while in the barrel.

[Hawkeye]

What about black powder rifle with a .58 bore? Are those now banned, too?

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

What about black powder rifle with a .58 bore? Are those now banned, too?

.58" is well under 20mm

[SnipeHunter]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

What about black powder rifle with a .58 bore? Are those now banned, too?

20mm = .787 inch. Below that you are fine for black powder.

If you needed a PAL for it prior to May 1st and it is larger than 20mm, then it is now prohibited.

[Rifle]

Maybe the duckhunters and trap shooters who complain that no one needs those ar-15 "toys" anyways will finally help fight the gun ban.

[ward]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

By the same definition of measuring a shotgun bore with a choke tube removed, how would the bore of a rifle fitted with a brake or the Jungle Carbine fitted with a flash suppressor?

I think the CSAAA is using good ol' Dog Whistle politics.

The entire premise is ridiculous and designed to embarrass the Libs. I support that, but who actually believed that multi choked shotguns were being banned.

[Diesel_wiesel]

I guess this is the time the good old 16 gauge will make its return ,
probably one company or another sooner or later will even chamber it in 3 inch

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by ward

The entire premise is ridiculous and designed to embarrass the Libs. I support that, but who actually believed that multi choked shotguns were being banned.

The entire purpose of bringing attention to this, was to get more attention to the bans. Many people assumed that they had no firearms of the type to be banned, so they paid zero attention to the bans. Some even supported the bans. This shows those people just how easy it would be for the government to ban their hunting firearms. Some people are too naive to understand that this is just the first step in the confiscation of all firearms, but it may get some people thinking about it, which is a good thing.

[sk270]

Originally Posted by wind drift

All that will come of this is a message from Blair clarifying the rule is based on nominal bore diameter and doesn’t render 12 and 10 gauge shotguns prohibited, and he’ll probably relish the opportunity to appear more knowledgeable than us.

I'm not sure about the "knowledgeable" part, but he's already tweeted something to that effect.

[58thecat]

image.jpeg


YouTube this tune and crank it up.......

[ward]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The entire purpose of bringing attention to this, was to get more attention to the bans. Many people assumed that they had no firearms of the type to be banned, so they paid zero attention to the bans. Some even supported the bans. This shows those people just how easy it would be for the government to ban their hunting firearms. Some people are too naive to understand that this is just the first step in the confiscation of all firearms, but it may get some people thinking about it, which is a good thing.

Here’s to hoping you are correct.

[sk270]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Some people are too naive to understand that this is just the first step in the confiscation of all firearms, but it may get some people thinking about it, which is a good thing.

I agree about this just being the first step. However, the gun owners I know are already thinking about it.

Our problem is how to get the voters in Toronto, Montreal, etc. to think about it logically rather than just being scared by the latest news about gang violence and other criminal activity. As long as the Liberals can lie to those people about banning guns, the government will continue down the same road.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by sk270

I agree about this just being the first step. However, the gun owners I know are already thinking about it.

Our problem is how to get the voters in Toronto, Montreal, etc. to think about it logically rather than just being scared by the latest news about gang violence and other criminal activity. As long as the Liberals can lie to those people about banning guns, the government will continue down the same road.

I did see several people supporting the ban on the Alberta Hunting page and on the Alberta Upland and Waterfowl pages. Looking at their profiles, they are hunters and firearms owners. When firearms owners are supporting the ban, we really are in trouble, so if we can get even a few to see the big picture, it will help

[DiabeticKripple]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I did see several people supporting the ban on the Alberta Hunting page and on the Alberta Upland and Waterfowl pages. Looking at their profiles, they are hunters and firearms owners. When firearms owners are supporting the ban, we really are in trouble, so if we can get even a few to see the big picture, it will help

and those people are worse than the plain anti gun people.

because they dont realize the damage they are doing to canadian shooting sports and the anti's use them in their examples

[Athabasca1]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

and those people are worse than the plain anti gun people.

because they dont realize the damage they are doing to canadian shooting sports and the anti's use them in their examples

Well stated, we need to all stand together. Gun control advocates
and politicians willuse anything they can spin as support for the OIC ban.

[sk270]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I did see several people supporting the ban on the Alberta Hunting page and on the Alberta Upland and Waterfowl pages. Looking at their profiles, they are hunters and firearms owners. When firearms owners are supporting the ban, we really are in trouble, so if we can get even a few to see the big picture, it will help

I can't find an Alberta Hunting website nor Alberta Upland and Waterfowl. Don't know what I'm doing wrong, but please provide links.

Are these websites or pages on AO? If on AO, please link to threads.

Thank you.

[darren32]

Originally Posted by Rifle

Maybe the duckhunters and trap shooters who complain that no one needs those ar-15 "toys" anyways will finally help fight the gun ban.

Maybe that is the CSSA's whole point? Trying to make it impact as many gun owners as possible? Get as many people talking about it as they can? Who knows

I also think it is a pretty stupid argument, although a shotgun CAN be fired without a choke, it is definitely not meant to be.....

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by sk270

I can't find an Alberta Hunting website nor Alberta Upland and Waterfowl. Don't know what I'm doing wrong, but please provide links.

Are these websites or pages on AO? If on AO, please link to threads.

Thank you.

Facebook pages

[Hugenuge]

Look like a law suit is coming

https://youtu.be/_nHoD3DXaXQ


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Positrac]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

and those people are worse than the plain anti gun people.

because they dont realize the damage they are doing to canadian shooting sports and the anti's use them in their examples

Lots of FUD’s on here too. They are just not being vocal...

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Positrac

Lots of FUD’s on here too. They are just not being vocal...

I can't count the number of times I have heard shooters and hunters put down a different firearm or style of hunting or shooting .
Don't like 'em? No problem don't own it or compete or participate in it , but don't run down others who do!
I am not a fan of PRS , three gun or cowboy action , but that does not mean I do not support those guys or help run matches for them .
A lot of those guys can't figure out what possesses me to strap into a weird looking shooting coat resembling a straight jack and sling then get prone and try to put 15 rounds into a bullseye with iron sights!
Cat

[dth_]

Originally Posted by darren32

Maybe that is the CSSA's whole point? Trying to make it impact as many gun owners as possible? Get as many people talking about it as they can? Who knows

I also think it is a pretty stupid argument, although a shotgun CAN be fired without a choke, it is definitely not meant to be.....

The RCMP firearms lab has a handbook for firearms classification. This is where the basis for this argument is coming from. The guidelines for barrel measurements say it must be done without any devices attached unless permanently fixed and proprietary to the barrel manufacturer. This includes chokes, flash hiders, muzzle brakes, etc.

This is directly from someone that deals with the CFP and RCMP firearms lab on a daily basis and is very experienced in FRTs and import/export.

I hope they hammer Bill harder on this. He gets hot under the collar easily and its a matter of time before he has his big foot-in-mouth moment on camera.

[32-40win]

So, the firearms groups and the CSAAA lawyers have discovered a lack of definition about the 20mm bore size in the OIC and the wording regarding it and how it relates to shotguns, in the Firearms Act. It has started an uproar, as it provides a way for a court to maybe interpret a 12ga with the screw in choke out of the barrel, as over 20mm bore size, on the muzzle, which could make it prohibited.
And Bill Blair has come out with a denial we have heard many other times when he was spreading disinformation and has been called upon his statements. Billy believes in the mantra that "If you tell a believable lie enough times, it will become the truth", so, on that note, until it is published that it has been defined in the regs properly, Billy boy is doing it again. Ed Burlew has a bit of experience on Firearms Act law, and some time in court on the subject.
I'll believe in Burlew's interpretation, which is a worst case scenario, in a bought or corrupted court. Trudope thinks nothing of trying something that would corrupt the court and circumvent justice if he could get away with it.
He has proven that already, and Billy has done his fair share of shady propaganda.
Trust No One in the Liberal party on this one. Wouldn't be the first time they tried to obfuscate their way out of a lie. When you see that defined in print in the Canada Gazette, then, you can believe Blair.
He has not talked to the CSSA today, did not provide any fact to backup his statement on Twitter.
If the Libs can get this done in a court, they don't have to write a new law, and have deniability on the result. Think about what they tried with SNC. That is what the CSSA is talking about.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by dth_

The RCMP firearms lab has a handbook for firearms classification. This is where the basis for this argument is coming from. The guidelines for barrel measurements say it must be done without any devices attached unless permanently fixed and proprietary to the barrel manufacturer. This includes chokes, flash hiders, muzzle brakes, etc.

This is directly from someone that deals with the CFP and RCMP firearms lab on a daily basis and is very experienced in FRTs and import/export.

I hope they hammer Bill harder on this. He gets hot under the collar easily and its a matter of time before he has his big foot-in-mouth moment on camera.

So it is the RCMPs own standard that was considered in interpreting that the bore was in excess of 20mm?